Knuckles Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) "Feel free to keep posting your issues in the z/Z21 app thread but be equally prepared not get resolutions to your issues as they are nothing to do with the app - as I said, all you gripes and complaints about the app not doing x or y have all been down to issues external to the app and the app has performed correctly." Its easy to say that if you know what the issue is - I don't. Z21 and Smail communication is a related subject. If you indeed do know what the issue is why didn't you just say so instead of being an awkward bugga. Never mind. Will figure it out myself. Can't be arsed bouncing this 5shit with you all the time. If anyone wants to chime in after reading the previous page - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/154348-circuitron-smail-point-motors-help-request/&tab=comments#comment-3956731 Edited May 8, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Knuckles said: If you indeed do know what the issue is why didn't you just say so instead of being an awkward bugga. Why don't you be less confrontational? You have done nothing but moan all the way through the thread criticising anything and everything. Lighten up a bit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) No & no. If you have a problem with my text, tough. I'm done being civil with the both of you. Will figure it myself. Edited May 8, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Matt C Posted May 8, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) Probably not the best idea to p@£s off the two people who have shown the most patience, and given the most time and help.....when being politely asked to keep the thread on topic by one of the main contributors, most would simply say no problems and start a new thread in the relevent section. I wish you well in "figuring it out yourself" Edited May 8, 2020 by Mattc6911 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) "Probably not the best" Why? They pis5ed me off multiple times. Tether ended. I'm not 'most' people, neither do I pander to herd mentality so forget 'band wagon' arguments. I care about what is actually real, regardless of if others see me as a prick in the process. I never once went off topic, yet several times was accused of it, also repeatedly I apparently said the app was faulty several times - I didn't, that was another. Apparently I'm wrong about some loco's shorting out the new turnouts n slips...even though it's a known issue on SOME locomotives, but that gets put to me condescendingly. Shorting was a passing remark in the bulk of the post that very much was in context of the Z21 app. Then when I reply to a comment about the shorting, apparently that again qualifies as me 'not keeping on z21' topic, even though it was a reply. Both of them clearly have a major issue with basic comprehension and logic. As I said before. I'm greatful for the help recieved. The rest of this crap I'm not. - Figured half of it out. One of the loco's when placed on the rails anywhere stops point 7 working, only point 7 including a replaced Smail as a test So it's likely an issue with loco chip or a partial incompatability with Z21 language or whatever. Edited May 8, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Matt C Posted May 8, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2020 Nope your definitely not 'most people' most people would show some sort of courtesy to those spending time and effort to sort out your problems. My comment was merely an attempt to get you to wind your neck in a bit so maybe you wouldn't piss everyone off and get zero help in the future. But you obviously have your own ideas about the world and how people should treat you so on ya go,. Have fun 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) Had plenty of courtesy until was repeatedly accused wrongly and spoke down to. Yep, I sure do have different ideas about the world. 'On ya go,' funny. I'll wind my neck in if people prove a consistent, logical truthfull argument. 4 pages (p11 onwards) people can read and quote if they're bothered. Probably not. Edited May 8, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmotrutta Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 On 27/04/2020 at 09:23, Mattc6911 said: Last time I tried to share a layout from the new App to the old via email it wouldn't work. Anyone know if thats working again ? I assumed they were now incompatible. I know old 32 bit tablets (Android and Apple) are no longer compatible with the new App but I was quite happy using an old Ipad with the old App as a throttle but not being able to share a layout from new to old was annoying Did you get anywhere with this? I have exactly the same problem in that I used the new app to update my layout, but my iPad no longer accepts updates of the new app so I need to go back to the old one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Matt C Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2020 41 minutes ago, Salmotrutta said: Did you get anywhere with this? I have exactly the same problem in that I used the new app to update my layout, but my iPad no longer accepts updates of the new app so I need to go back to the old one! Must admit since I posed the question I've had no time to check things out. I know months ago when I tried sending a layout from new App to old it came up with an error, but sending an older layout from old App to old App worked ok. also when trying to download the new App via Google play store my older 32 bit devices are ' not compatible with this App' Not yet experimented with my old iPad but I'm assuming I will get the same results ? As I find a lot of Apple Apps are no longer compatible on older 32 bit devices and no developers seam interested in keeping two Apps going for both old and new architecture. It was only on seeing here that the old App was no longer being discontinued that I posed the question, wondering if they had made them backwards compatible again, or maybe even forwards compatible so a master layout created on an old 32 bit system with the old App could then be imported into the new App on a 64 bit system. I'm afraid it probably won't be but only some testing will find out If I get some time to check it out I'll post the results here 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 You cannot create a layout in the new app and port it back to the original app, this won’t happen as the original app doesn’t support the ability to interpret the layout schematic. you can go from the original app to the latest app and that will import your locos and any turnouts or accessories that you have defined. You will need to create a layout schematic to work with them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 On 08/05/2020 at 11:27, Knuckles said: Figured half of it out. One of the loco's when placed on the rails anywhere stops point 7 working, only point 7 including a replaced Smail as a test So it's likely an issue with loco chip or a partial incompatability with Z21 language or whatever. Hi, In one of your earlier posts you said that you had been setting Smail addresses using the accessories option in the Vehicles section rather than the Control Station section. I would make sure that the offending Smail has been programmed with an accessory address in the Control Station section, if it has the same address as the loco that could be the issue. You may also find that you have to turn Railcom Off on the Z21 as NCE products don't work well with it turned on, and I believe that the Smail uses an NCE designed decoder. On my layout I ended up needing a booster, so I used that to supply my NCE Switch 8's with Railcom turned off and turned Railcom back on again on the Z21 itself. Regards, John P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) Ok thanks, will look into it. Only the 1st was programmed as a vehicle but it was reprogrammed correctly after. Odd how the pacific with Hornby 8 pin decoder stops point 7 working just by being on the track. Green icons in the app move yet point doesn't fire, even after changing point motor and it's address. Other loco doesn't cause a bother. Will figure it in time. --- Edit: Now it's working. Didn't do anything, just tried on a different day. Gremlins. Edited May 9, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Matt C Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2020 4 hours ago, WIMorrison said: You cannot create a layout in the new app and port it back to the original app, this won’t happen as the original app doesn’t support the ability to interpret the layout schematic. you can go from the original app to the latest app and that will import your locos and any turnouts or accessories that you have defined. You will need to create a layout schematic to work with them. Thanks Iain I gathered that might be the case, just no time to check it out and get the rosters organised and synced atmo. Anyone know if a loco roster created in Jmri can be exported into the Z21 App ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 The z/Z21 app is closed environment and doesn't import or export from anything other than another z/Z21 application, with the limitation of forward only compatibility. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Matt C Posted May 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2020 22 hours ago, WIMorrison said: The z/Z21 app is closed environment and doesn't import or export from anything other than another z/Z21 application, with the limitation of forward only compatibility. Thanks Iain your comments have saved me some research time. I have a newer 64 bit tablet that has been freed up, that runs the new App, so I'll use that for the main roster. The older devices happily run the old App and I'll load them with a cut down Roster (half a dozen locos) which is all that's required for when the Grand kids visit. I intend building a CV database in Jmri for the loco stable anyway and can use Jmri as an extra throttle if I need it as it will have the full loco stable on it anyway. I'm sure somewhere I have a replaced phone that also ran the new App which can be pressed into service as a throttle as well if needed All good, thanks for the input. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmotrutta Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 On 09/05/2020 at 19:09, WIMorrison said: The z/Z21 app is closed environment and doesn't import or export from anything other than another z/Z21 application, with the limitation of forward only compatibility. Thanks for answering this. I'll probably revert to the old app for my HOm layout and add the missing locos that I entered on the new app. Then the old iPad can be dedicated to that layout and z21. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Daft question so apologies if I'm missing something obvious. Is there a way of sorting locos in the z21 app by decoder address or name? Mine are in order of the random way I've entered them onto the app. I've set up categories which again I couldn't find a way of changing order. In each category though the order of locomotives is the order Ive entered them into. Thanks Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Go into vehicles where the locos have been defined and click the pencil on the bottom left and then move them up, down or delete them :) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, WIMorrison said: and then move them up, down Using the very faint three bar icon on the right side to grab and move them 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 50 minutes ago, WIMorrison said: Go into vehicles where the locos have been defined and click the pencil on the bottom left and then move them up, down or delete them 38 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: Using the very faint three bar icon on the right side to grab and move them On my iPhone I can't even see the 3 bar icon. So, select edit using the pencil icon, and then touch the screen to the right of the loco you want to move, you can then slide the loco up and down the list. I really like my Z21 but Roco's documentation, or rather lack of it, for the App really gets my goat. And I wouldn't call the app particularly intuitive. Regards, John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Thanks all I knew it was a user limitation! Forgot to mention I was using android mobile and so I had to click the pencil then I get the 3 bars and can then move. Cool Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, jpendle said: . And I wouldn't call the app particularly intuitive. I found the original one more intuitive and to be honest still prefer it. It may not be as Xbox in presentation but it’s a far better design for clarity on the phones smaller screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 2 hours ago, jpendle said: On my iPhone I can't even see the 3 bar icon. So, select edit using the pencil icon, and then touch the screen to the right of the loco you want to move, you can then slide the loco up and down the list. I really like my Z21 but Roco's documentation, or rather lack of it, for the App really gets my goat. And I wouldn't call the app particularly intuitive. Regards, John P John where is there an app, whether it be iOS or Android that has any documentation? luckily it operates like other apps making it fairly easy to navigate around Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, WIMorrison said: John where is there an app, whether it be iOS or Android that has any documentation? luckily it operates like other apps making it fairly easy to navigate around Fair point. But as I said it is hardly intuitive and I don't think it works like other apps that I use. E.g Moving a loco up and down the roster. On my iPhone. I press the pencil icon, and a -ve sign in a red circle appears on the left of each loco, pretty obvious what that will do even to me. On the right side of the loco there isn't the faintest hint of anything, let alone 3 bars. So I think I must be able to move the locos around, and I press one of the loco icons, and nothing happens. Eventually I ask here or elsewhere and someone tells me the answer. I had a similar issue with the 'new' schematic based layout diagrams, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to use it, because it was nothing like the other layout diagrams. Like I said, I really like the Z21 and would recommend it to anyone, BUT the app could be a lot more user friendly. Regards, John P Edited July 3, 2020 by jpendle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3ti Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Hi All, I have a DR5000 running in Z21 mode for my O gauge shelf layout and have been using the black Z21 app on a couple of old iPhones and a new iPad, which have worked great. However both old phones batteries have given up the ghost. I find using phone size devices good as throttles but use the iPad to do configuration and as a mimic panel. It is however my main iPad, so I have bought a new 10" generic brand Android tablet running Android 10, it has heaps of memory but Google Shop says the new black app is incompatible. Any ideas, I did send an email to Roco support but got no response. The Old version of the Z21 app loads but is very unstable on this device. I can use it for Engine Driver and Train Controller on my 00 layout and Engine Driver on the local club layout, so its not a total loss. The 00 layout using TC needs a couple of tablets acting as Mimic panels as I dont have any physical panels. So are there specific brand Android devices used that works well with the Black Z21 app? I also inherited my wife's old iPad mini with is also incompatible with the Black Z21 app. Have loaded the old app and it works fine. I see from above that you can't export layouts backwards but what about loco export can that be imported into the old version? Or do I just bite the bullet and manually input all my locos? I have about 7 GWR/Southern locos designed for the Shelf layout so not a bit deal to go and add them. Cheers Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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