Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[Damo666]

2 minutes ago, Ryde-on-time said:

I am not trained in law but this passage at the start of the web page I linked to seems clear:

 

”If you mislead your followers, you may be breaking consumer protection law, and could face enforcement action from the CMA, local authority Trading Standards services or the Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland. You might also break industry rules on advertising.”

 

I too think that things should be clearer when watching on TV. As has been previously asked, is Sam on this forum. It seems me that a friendly prompt to tweak things to make them clearer is all that’s needed

I too agree that things should be made clearer, whether we are watching TV, Infommercials (Info-Commercials), looking at Bill Boards, viewing Social Media. etc. I think we are being subtly manipulated in many ways and from several directions by some very clever marketing and political people.

 

However, my point is that I have not seen this (Social Media Guidance) as Law. Even your quote doesn't say it is breaking the law, it says 'you may be', not you are. You might think this is a fine point, but to me it is clear. I'd just like this thread to stay focused on the facts as we know it, and not wander off when a wrong assumption is made.

 

But then, maybe I've made a wrong assumption and it is law, I'm fully open to clarification.

[atom3624]

I have noticed that Sam does mention Hattons in virtually every video ... so 1 + 1 = ...     or pretty obvious.

 

Are you REALLY that bothered?

Does it matter THAT much?

 

I think the photos and videos, without paying any attention to the commentary say more than enough of what to expect and as stated ... we should be expecting some of them any time now .... 'before Christmas' .... 'though it has gone rather quiet so I'm not so certain any more about the before bit ...

 

Al.

[woodenhead]

37 minutes ago, AlexHolt said:

The people saying it doesn't matter these aren't production models, these are production sample models, which means they are the exact same as what you will be getting in the box, most production samples are taken from the same assembly line which means this is what you're getting in the box. What I don't understand is why they are giving these out to people with a minor youtube following, they must have some connection to Hattons in some way to be sent the production sample of the model to review. 

Hattons are using social media in a savvy manner.

 

Sam has seen 11k views of his 66 and 10k views of his Christmas round up - OK it's not the large numbers that might follow other Youtube channels, but for a niche like model railways that looks healthy.  He gets money from youtube advertising and some form of financial return from his affiliation with Hattons.  If it feeds his habit for new trains then all power to him, you don't have to watch his channel.

 

Maybe we're all getting a little long in the tooth if we're moaning that it's not done how it was when we were young - times change, so do model railways and so does how you reach your potential buyers.

[Roy Langridge]

43 minutes ago, AlexHolt said:

The people saying it doesn't matter these aren't production models, these are production sample models, which means they are the exact same as what you will be getting in the box, most production samples are taken from the same assembly line which means this is what you're getting in the box. What I don't understand is why they are giving these out to people with a minor youtube following, they must have some connection to Hattons in some way to be sent the production sample of the model to review. 

Minor youtube following? Have you actually looked at the number of subscribers? Far from minor. 
 

Roy

[truffy]

57 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

I have noticed that Sam does mention Hattons in virtually every video ... so 1 + 1 = ...     or pretty obvious.

 

Not really. I took it simply as familiarity as a customer, rather than as a sign of a more formal commercial relationship. I mention retailers that I've purchased from, not as an endorsement but only from experience.

 

57 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Are you REALLY that bothered?

Does it matter THAT much?

 

If it serves to (potentially) bias the review, in a way that is not transparent to the viewer, then yes it does matter.

 

45 minutes ago, AlexHolt said:

Going off the definition for affiliate it means hes officially connected to Hattons in some sort of way, my guess would be via the affiliate links. The affiliate links mean that he gets a small percentage of the model's price paid back to him if you buy it via the link in his description.

 

But this is not the same as formally 'being on the payroll', although it has similar connotations for bias I suppose.

[woodenhead]

For pity's sake Hattons, deliver the locos, we're beginning to eat each other here. 

[Colin_McLeod]

2 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

For pity's sake Hattons, deliver the locos, we're beginning to eat each other here. 

 

I'm beginning to think Hattons is affiliated to Sams Trains and Everard Junction to boost their YouTube ratings.

 

 

[Colin_McLeod]

2 minutes ago, AlexHolt said:

 

They both are. Both have Hattons affiliate links specific to their channels

 

I think you missed my joke.  It's the YouTubers who are affiliated to Hattons and not the other way round.  

[rob D2]

Of course they are......this is the age of “ social media influencers “. People paid to promote stuff on YouTube.....if not that income through adverts.

 

 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

For pity's sake Hattons, deliver the locos, we're beginning to eat each other here. 

If there was a prize for best post on this thread, this would surely be it.

 

(just make sure the prize isn't the first 66 out of the door or all hell will let loose).

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by adb968008

[Legend]

Yep looks like indignation is filling the void of no models . I like the YouTube videos  but I make up my own mind . 

[newbryford]

3 minutes ago, Legend said:

Yep looks like indignation is filling the void of no models . I like the YouTube videos  but I make up my own mind . 

 

Cue flurry of more youtube channels hoping for the next big release.......................................

[PaulRhB]

1 minute ago, newbryford said:

 

Cue flurry of more youtube channels hoping for the next big release.......................................

Isn’t the big release the Dapol O one? 

 

[truffy]

2 hours ago, AlexHolt said:

 

I don't think you can trust any of these reviews to be honest, the reviewers/youtubers are all making money via Hattons (although not formally being on the payroll) so of course they would give it a positive review, they are making money off any that sell via their links and if they gave a negative review then they wouldn't get as many people to use their affiliate links. It needs to be made clear what their relationship with Hattons is. I'll wait and see what someone whos not on the payroll has to say about them before deciding if I should buy one. 

 

I am quite offended that there so much obfuscation with regards to reviewers' affiliation with Hattons. I have cancelled my order. I may reinstate it in the light of further information, but there was another item in that order that will now go to Rails.

[stock_2007]

But are we all sure the colour of the new 66 is right, I'm not sure about the 'pink' one I ordered........anything to stop you talking about videos

[Andy7]

Of course if all the moaning people watched the YouTube videos with the sound off you see that the model looks and runs amazing. Otherwise you would only be buying it off the back of someone’s words, it’s all about the product. 

 

I’m almost certain that at least one detail will be wrong (as per nearly every model out there) but on the whole it looks fantastic. Can’t wait for my 2.

 

(No I don’t work or are affiliated with Hattons in any way).

[Colin_McLeod]

If Hattons themselves produced a You Tube video that demonstrated their Class 66 model how would you all feel about that?

[classy52]

8 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

If Hattons themselves produced a You Tube video that demonstrated their Class 66 model how would you all feel about that?

 

I would be sold and buy several straight away.

[PaulRhB]

9 hours ago, truffy said:

 

I am quite offended that there so much obfuscation with regards to reviewers' affiliation with Hattons. I have cancelled my order. I may reinstate it in the light of further information, but there was another item in that order that will now go to Rails.

How can the Youtubers affiliation clarity be Hattons fault? Hattons are just putting models out there for maximum exposure it’s normal marketing, there’s nothing unusual about that! The whole point of these regular channels is to make some money off advertising by product placement even if it started as sheer enthusiasm. Magazines have long been accused of cosy relationships with manufacturers because who’s going to supply models free to someone slagging it off regularly?

Judge it by what you see and if the production model doesn’t live up to that then it’s within your rights to return it with the faults stated. 

[truffy]

40 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

The whole point of these regular channels is to make some money off advertising by product placement even if it started as sheer enthusiasm.

 

Agreed. But there are many Youtubers who quite openly state that if you buy through their links then they will be remunerated. That is open and honest. So it can be done!

 

40 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Judge it by what you see and if the production model doesn’t live up to that then it’s within your rights to return it with the faults stated. 

 

I will judge it by what I read and see of the actual production models. Unfortunately, living in Switzerland, as I do, returning items because they don't live up to expectation is an expensive hobby.

 

[newbryford]

59 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

If Hattons themselves produced a You Tube video that demonstrated their Class 66 model how would you all feel about that?

 

They've already done an overview of the sound and lights video.

 

[PaulRhB]

9 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

Agreed. But there are many Youtubers who quite openly state that if you buy through their links then they will be remunerated. That is open and honest. So it can be done!

 

 

I will judge it by what I read and see of the actual production models. Unfortunately, living in Switzerland, as I do, returning items because they don't live up to expectation is an expensive hobby.

 

If they provide links to buy through I’d be astounded if they weren’t  

I still don’t get why cancelling the order and buying the other things from Rails is connected though. Hattons are just putting stuff out there it’s up to the Youtubers to declare any links if they are gaining financially, that includes getting exclusive access as it gets them revenue ultimately. 

Fortunately with Hattons policy on stocking these there should be plenty left, or another batch, once they are out into the maelstrom of forum opinion  

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by PaulRhB

[big jim]

58 minutes ago, classy52 said:

 

I would be sold and buy several straight away.

 

even if they came on and said, well actually we've made a mess of this model and its only got 4 wheels and those are oval!

 

10 hours ago, truffy said:

 

I am quite offended that there so much obfuscation with regards to reviewers' affiliation with Hattons. I have cancelled my order. 

 

isnt that a bit extreme, did you order the model purely after viewing the content of one of the vidoes you watched or did you order it before you saw any videos having only seen pictures of the preproduction models? 

 

 

[Paul80]

Just checking to see if these are showing up in stock yet, couldn't believe they are doing 111 different variations of these, talk about flooding the market if they all arrive on time 

[classy52]

1 minute ago, big jim said:

 

even if they came on and said, well actually we've made a mess of this model and its only got 4 wheels and those are oval!

 

 

Lol I was being sarcastic but would have to think about that for at least 5mins