Falcon Brassworks - a warning!

[k22009]

1 hour ago, Denbridge said:

The locomotives are another matter all together. They range from reasonable (for their day) through to a waste of metal. The Claughton is a prime example of the latter. More than 50% of the body components need to be replaced if one is to get a reasonable model out of the kit. And the underpinnings are just as bad.

 

I didn't find the Claughton build i recently shared on here too bad.

 

 

Dave

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Barclay said:

This is the NE 12T box van kit. Strangely the instructions suggested it could be used for an LMS van as well ! The roof profile was closer to LNER though. Too wide, had to be squeezed, and even then it can only represent the smaller batch that was wider. No outside framing supplied for the door, turned buffers that were completely wrong, solebar channel much too deep, and the underframe parts so poor that they all had to go. I also made a new brass roof, not trusting the thin and ancient plasticard in the kit. The end corrugations are a little sharp too. Despite all this intervention required, or perhaps because of it, I found it immensely enjoyable to build and it has become one of my favourite wagons. I still keep an eye out for their Aspinall rapid shunting tank kit but in reality it would probably be easier to scratchbuild...

 

 

 

The LMS had a batch built by the LNER. Lochgorm Kits made a starter kit of the same diagram, D2079.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/31727-lochgorm-4mm-lner-cov-b-van/

 

 

Jason

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, k22009 said:

 

I didn't find the Claughton build i recently shared on here too bad.

Dave

 

As with all kits 'of a certain age' - it all depends how much time and effort you are prepared to put into the build.

 

John Isherwood.

[lofty1966]

4 hours ago, mike morley said:

My very first attempt at an etched kit was a Falcon Brass ex-Cambrian guards van.  When I finally plucked up the courage to tackle it I found the kit itself was actually rather better than the instructions had led me to expect.  The only real problem was that some of the fold lines were in the wrong place, and even that wasnt a major problem because they were so far from where they ought to have been the error was obvious even to a novice.

I've since built a couple more of their wagon kits and in both cases found the instructions were by far their biggest shortcoming.

I've bought a couple of these kits recently (via ebay).

Thanx for the heads up!

Edited June 6, 2020 by lofty1966
added text

[Blandford1969]

I thought all the etches were withdrawn and the comment was nothing else would be sold by them. Although why then the site is left is a mystery. Some of the domes and chimneys were nice if nothing else. 

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

I thought all the etches were withdrawn and the comment was nothing else would be sold by them. Although why then the site is left is a mystery. Some of the domes and chimneys were nice if nothing else. 

 

 

 

I believe that was just a temporary measure.

 

Previous to that the wagons were readily available without much of a murmur. It was only when the locomotives and carriage etches were added that the problems started.

 

 

 

Jason

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I believe that was just a temporary measure.

 

Previous to that the wagons were readily available without much of a murmur. It was only when the locomotives and carriage etches were added that the problems started.

 

 

 

Jason

 

To the best of my knowledge, Falcon Brass was stated by Samantha to have ceased trading, in response to the adverse posts here.

 

John Isherwood.

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

To the best of my knowledge, Falcon Brass was stated by Samantha to have ceased trading, in response to the adverse posts here.

 

John Isherwood.

 

That may be true.

 

But they still have them for sale at exhibitions. Maybe when the circumstances are better they might become more readily available again. Unfortunately for me they only attend exhibitions down south or the big ones such as Warley which makes it impossible for me to go to.

 

From the website. Which tallies with the Dart website.

 

Our next show is:

Uckfield

Saturday 17th October -
Sunday 18th October

 

Would a company still pay for a website if they aren't planning on using it? 

 

 

 

Jason

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

That may be true.

 

But they still have them for sale at exhibitions. Maybe when the circumstances are better they might become more readily available again. Unfortunately for me they only attend exhibitions down south or the big ones such as Warley which makes it impossible for me to go to.

 

From the website. Which tallies with the Dart website.

 

Our next show is:

Uckfield

Saturday 17th October -
Sunday 18th October

 

Would a company still pay for a website if they aren't planning on using it? 

 

 

 

Jason

 

Interesting - I'm assuming that this is via the Dart Castings stand?

 

"down south"?

 

Cornwall, where I am, is "down south" - I wonder?

 

John Isherwood.

[hayfield]

I think many modellers under estimate the complexity of running a model railway business, especially a niche one like this

 

It helps when the owner has an interest in the subject but certainly a knowledge of the products and their contents.

 

Looking at the product range of Dart castings and the fact that they sell the odd item at shows, if they could easily integrate some of the range into their business  they would.

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, hayfield said:

I think many modellers under estimate the complexity of running a model railway business, especially a niche one like this

 

It helps when the owner has an interest in the subject but certainly a knowledge of the products and their contents.

 

Looking at the product range of Dart castings and the fact that they sell the odd item at shows, if they could easily integrate some of the range into their business  they would.

 

As a small trader myself, I do not underestimate the complexity of running a model railway business - the secret is to run it on your terms and to keep it simple.

 

Looking at the product range of Dart Castings, they are perfectly placed to source the castings that are required for the Falcon Brass kits.

 

So, it comes down to analysing the kits; deciding which have a viable future; assessing demand; ordering the etches and packing and despatching orders; (the latter being something they are already set up to do).

 

As to demand; advertising the viable kits as being potentially available, subject to demand, and inviting expressions of interest; (to be followed when sufficient interest is evident by a 50% deposit); would soon establish that.

 

Now I, of all people, know that demand can easily outstrip the amount of time that the proprietor has available, or is prepared to devote to the venture. That being the case, if the proprietors do not have the capacity to service the range, it would be better for all concerned for them to dispose of it.

 

What I do know from experience; (see photos above); is that these kits should have potential; it depends upon someone being willing to develop it. (.... and no - it won't be me; at nearly 71 I have quite enough on my plate - but I would build some more Falcon Brass wagons, given the chance)!

 

John Isherwood.

[hayfield]

4 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

As a small trader myself, I do not underestimate the complexity of running a model railway business - the secret is to run it on your terms and to keep it simple.

 

Looking at the product range of Dart Castings, they are perfectly placed to source the castings that are required for the Falcon Brass kits.

 

So, it comes down to analysing the kits; deciding which have a viable future; assessing demand; ordering the etches and packing and despatching orders; (the latter being something they are already set up to do).

 

As to demand; advertising the viable kits as being potentially available, subject to demand, and inviting expressions of interest; (to be followed when sufficient interest is evident by a 50% deposit); would soon establish that.

 

Now I, of all people, know that demand can easily outstrip the amount of time that the proprietor has available, or is prepared to devote to the venture. That being the case, if the proprietors do not have the capacity to service the range, it would be better for all concerned for them to dispose of it.

 

What I do know from experience; (see photos above); is that these kits should have potential; it depends upon someone being willing to develop it. (.... and no - it won't be me; at nearly 71 I have quite enough on my plate - but I would build some more Falcon Brass wagons, given the chance)!

 

John Isherwood.

 

John

 

I cannot really argue against what you have written, but when the likes of C&L found it extremely difficult  to sell the business, finding someone who wants to take the business over, then agreeing a value is not an easy job. Then Dart do not own the business, the owners are a separate partnership. I would assume they would love to get their investment back.

Then there is the issue of being able to source the etched, turned and cast parts, the list goes on,

 

I personally doubt the range's viability

[micklner]

Quote

 

"I personally doubt the range's viability"

 

 

Another nail hit on the head. The range has such a poor reputation among many modellers.

 

Speaking only re their LNER based models , there is virtually nothing in the range that is'nt nowdays covered by other ranges. Most of which are much better designed, made and better/and or good value for the prices asked.

[PenrithBeacon]

11 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

...

I personally doubt the range's viability

Agreed, but a new range of freshly designed vehicles will work. Concentrate on GWR prototypes first, to get some market penetration, and then expand the range into other areas.

[cctransuk]

11 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

John

 

I cannot really argue against what you have written, but when the likes of C&L found it extremely difficult  to sell the business, finding someone who wants to take the business over, then agreeing a value is not an easy job. Then Dart do not own the business, the owners are a separate partnership. I would assume they would love to get their investment back.

Then there is the issue of being able to source the etched, turned and cast parts, the list goes on,

 

I personally doubt the range's viability

 

As it stands, I tend to agree that the Falcon Brass range has little, if any, resale value - hard though that may be for the current owners.

 

What is needed is for the range to be written off as an assett, and offered FOC to someone who can demonstrate that they have the time and skills to put it back on its feet. That would also require dedication and a sound knowledge of railways.

 

Thoroughly overhauled to eliminate errors and build issues, the kits could have considerable attraction to the experienced end of the hobby.

 

I appreciate that the modern pace of life means that a declining number of persons can call upon these qualities and resources, but the current global situation might just prompt someone to step up to the challenge.

 

Let's hope so,

John Isherwood.

[truffy]

52 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Agreed, but a new range of freshly designed vehicles will work.

If that were the approach to be taken, they’d be better off starting a new brand and jettisoning the FB reputation. 

[Blandford1969]

Engines need redesigning for as much fold up as possible. For example on the Highland Castle and Clan's could be redone with the spasher sides folding up to make life easier. 

 

Its a shame, but as they stand any etchings are very hard work to build having taken 2 days to build a tender for a U from a Falcon Brass kit, replacing parts and adding many that should have been there in the first place!. 

[Buhar]

1 hour ago, Blandford1969 said:

Engines need redesigning for as much fold up as possible. For example on the Highland Castle and Clan's could be redone with the splasher sides folding up to make life easier. 

 

Its a shame, but as they stand any etchings are very hard work to build having taken 2 days to build a tender for a U from a Falcon Brass kit, replacing parts and adding many that should have been there in the first place!. 

Those sort of changes means re-doing the artwork, which would have been hand-drawn.  Mind you it could be an opportunity to get things the same size and fitting together!  However, it's "I wouldn't start out from here" scenario for probably most of the loco kits.  If someone thinks it's viable, doing the artwork for an etches only kit (ie no castings) is probably one of the cheaper ways into small-scale production.  

 

Alan

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, Buhar said:

Those sort of changes means re-doing the artwork, which would have been hand-drawn.  Mind you it could be an opportunity to get things the same size and fitting together!  However, it's "I wouldn't start out from here" scenario for probably most of the loco kits.  If someone thinks it's viable, doing the artwork for an etches only kit (ie no castings) is probably one of the cheaper ways into small-scale production.  

 

Alan

 

I don't think there is anywhere left that can accomodate hand drawn artwork.  It's likely the range has the photo tools and that is all, so any redesign is really just new work.

 

I do my own etches and am currently working on what should be a very simple locomotive, it's an 0-8-0 with a simple body but it has still taken 15 hours getting the frames done, as there are always issues of compromise to resolve. I estimate it will be 35 hours to finish it then send off for etching.  Multiply that across the range of Falcon and you've got a lifetimes work, but how many would actually sell ? and in enough numbers to recover the costs involved.

I think the only way to get stock you want that isn't already produced is to see if anyone else is interested in a particular item and then approach someone who could draw it for production.  

[jwealleans]

Quote

The LMS had a batch built by the LNER. Lochgorm Kits made a starter kit of the same diagram, D2079.

 

That was a plank ended vehicle (the same one Bachmann do RTR). 

[hayfield]

8 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I don't think there is anywhere left that can accomodate hand drawn artwork.  It's likely the range has the photo tools and that is all, so any redesign is really just new work.

 

I do my own etches and am currently working on what should be a very simple locomotive, it's an 0-8-0 with a simple body but it has still taken 15 hours getting the frames done, as there are always issues of compromise to resolve. I estimate it will be 35 hours to finish it then send off for etching.  Multiply that across the range of Falcon and you've got a lifetimes work, but how many would actually sell ? and in enough numbers to recover the costs involved.

I think the only way to get stock you want that isn't already produced is to see if anyone else is interested in a particular item and then approach someone who could draw it for production.  

 

 

Dave

 

Well summed up, its a case of heart ruling over head.

 

Would I like to buy some of the more exotic models covered by Jedinco, like most people the answer is yes

Do I bid on Jedinco models. No

Have I recently bought a Jedinco loco. Yes 15 months ago for £34, as it had an Alan Gibson EM gauge compensated chassis with Romford wheels, if all else fails the value is in the chassis and I can bin the loco without loss

[Buhar]

Bits of brass will always come in handy. An offcuts box rather than the bin. But that sounds like a good buy. 

Alan 

[jonhall]

On 07/06/2020 at 10:24, cctransuk said:

Thoroughly overhauled to eliminate errors and build issues, the kits could have considerable attraction to the experienced end of the hobby.

 

 

John, frankly that means start again. I realise that you don't run CCT on true comercial grounds, but imagine the ammount of work it would be if you were to buy modelmasters range of transfers, and wanted to convert them all to run on your printer, but the artwork was only available in some electronic format you can't read - would you scan each sheet, trace all the lettering to recreate every sheet, or just start from scratch?

 

Jon

[cctransuk]

49 minutes ago, jonhall said:

 

John, frankly that means start again. I realise that you don't run CCT on true comercial grounds, but imagine the ammount of work it would be if you were to buy modelmasters range of transfers, and wanted to convert them all to run on your printer, but the artwork was only available in some electronic format you can't read - would you scan each sheet, trace all the lettering to recreate every sheet, or just start from scratch?

 

Jon

 

I do take your point, and I can't comment on the quality or viability of the range of loco kits; (though there have been favourable comments about some that others have condemned as unbuildable). I think that it comes down to your skill level, and how much you expect the kit designer to have done to make life easy for you.

 

There is a comment in a post above to the effect that the loco kits need to be rehashed so that as many components as possible fold up, rather than being separate items that you need to support whilst they are soldered in place. OK - this makes life easier, but is far from being essential.

 

I have built a few Jidenco wagon kits, and there are tricky elements; folding the solebars can be one, even after heavily 'scrawking' the fold lines. If this proves to be troublesome, I will sometimes substitute milled brass angle and impress the rivets with a rivetting tool.

 

Nonetheless, these more challenging kits can provide much enjoyment, and their unusual subjects are a major attraction. Frankly, I don't believe that the wagon kits, at least, do need overhauling before they are remarketted.

 

John Isherwood.

[Ravenser]

11 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

That was a plank ended vehicle (the same one Bachmann do RTR). 

 

Wartime production - hence the avoidance of a pressed steel end, and the supply of a batch to the LMS

 

I query the description of the Lochgorm kit as "starter " . I acquired one through DOGA and it ground to a halt years ago....

 

On the other hand the Kirk plastic kit of the same vehicle I bought when I started work ,and took for ever to get round to building took a few days to build and finish when I finally tackled it