RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted March 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2021 Hello Chris (CJL) Just to let you know that I am very pleased with my 16xx and it runs superbly well. All the best. Brian 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
89A Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, ColinG121 said: On DCC when fitted with a Zimo sound decoder it keeps stopping and then re-starting. I have had the same problem with mine. Fitted with a non sound decoder they run very well. Fitted Zimo sound decoders to 2 of them and strange behaviour. One ran fine and the other stopped and restarted randomly. Swapped over the decoders and the other loco had the stop / start problem. I returned the decoder giving the problem to Digitrains. Jeremy from Digitrains has just come back to me. The returned decoder works ok on other locos but they happened to have a Rapido 16xx in the shop and the same thing happened to theirs. They have removed the capacitors numbered C1 and C2 and the problem disappears. I will do the same when a decoder is returned. Hope this helps. Mark Edited March 10, 2021 by 89A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Are we saying that Swindon disobeyed the Derby mixed-traffic paint spec in respect of the name/numberplate background colour? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Kaput Posted March 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) For the people reporting DCC issues, has anyone tried an ESU decoder instead of Zimo? In the past Rapido's products seem to be designed/tested with ESU decoders it seems and my J70 seems to run better with a Lokpilot than a MX617. Just a thought. Edited March 9, 2021 by Kaput Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 14 hours ago, Kaput said: For the people reporting DCC issues, has anyone tried an ESU decoder instead of Zimo? In the past Rapido's products seem to be designed/tested with ESU decoders it seems and my J70 seems to run better with a Lokpilot than a MX617. Just a thought. I am using an ESU sound decoder in mine. After auto tuning it and then tweaking the CVs as per an earlier post by Richard (Croft) on this thread it runs beautifully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
csvt2004 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 16 hours ago, 89A said: I have had the same problem with mine. Fitted with a non sound decoder they run very well. Fitted Zimo sound decoders to 2 of them and strange behaviour. One ran fine and the other stopped and restarted randomly. Swapped over the decoders and the other loco had the stop / start problem. I returned the decoder giving the problem to Digitrains. Jeremy from Digitrains has just come back to me. The returned decoder works ok on other locos but they happened to have a Rapido 16xx in the shop and the same thing happened to theirs. They have removed the capacitors numbered C1 and C2 and the problem disappears. I will do the same when a decoder is returned. Hope this helps. Mark Mark Ah that is very interesting. Where are the C1 and C2 capacitors? Are they surface mount jobs on the pcb? Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
89A Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, csvt2004 said: Ah that is very interesting. Where are the C1 and C2 capacitors? Are they surface mount jobs on the pcb? Richard Yes. Relatively simple to remove. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
89A Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, Miss Prism said: Are we saying that Swindon disobeyed the Derby mixed-traffic paint spec in respect of the name/numberplate background colour? Was there any difference in the numeral height dimensions of the cab side plates or were they always say 8" or 9"? Edited March 10, 2021 by 89A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, 89A said: Was there any difference in the numeral height dimensions of the cab side plates or were they always say 8" or 9"? No. The numbers on GWR number plates were 5.75" high. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithAnthony Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 This is a great model and I love it, but I think Model Rail needs to respond and be open about a very real issue. It is clear there is a component(s) in the installed PCB that prevents the advertised functionality from working. I have removed the PCB and hard wired a decoder and the model runs really well, but this should not be necessary at the price of nearly £150. Hope Rapido also learn and don't repeat this in the 15xx! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted March 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2021 PCB removed and hard wired loksound fitted with uprated speaker in boiler. All good here! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Hi I am now on my second 16xx....... The first one came & was a pig to run out of the box on DC....Rare for modern loco's these days..... I then tried it on feedback & it was even worse...... So I cleaned the wheels & ran it in for 30mins or so in each direction....... Better on DC but not much better on Feedback..... I note that it has been stated that it is not a coreless motor but a 5 pole skew wound motor so as far as I'm aware should be fine with Feedback....I use Feedback at Exhibitions I get good slow running.....Some loco's are a bit quick on ordinary DC...... Following Ben Alder's post on 14th Feb I cleaned the back of the wheels.....The difference was noticeable as I was running it & cleaning.....You could see actually the performance improve while cleaning.....More running in & a check that nothing obvious wrong internally I finally got it running reasonably well on DC but not on Feedeback......Not bad backwards but jerky forwards..... Rang Model Rail (Kernow ) & explained the problem & they agreed to swap it. During the second conversation I had they ran it while I was on the phone & told me it was one of the best slow runners they'd seen but didn't try it on Feedback which is where my main issue is..... Anyway the replacement arrived & although better running in DC mode was not good ,Feedback control ws poor again....Jerky & noisy but better in reverse than forward..... After about 2hrs running in in both direction & wheel cleaning (tyres backs & pick up plungers )it ran ok in DC mode..... During the second conversation with Model Rail (Kernow) it was stated that if the loco ran fine on DC but not on Feedback that probably that was how it was. This being the case I decided to hardwire the pick ups to the motor bypassing the PCB completely as if I wasn't going to get a better loco then I would risk that I would invalidate the warranty by so doing & I might get a better running loco...... The upshot is that it runs pretty well in both directions in DC but not as well as most of my other loco's......Feed back is still not good...... In reverse it's pretty good (6seconds to do one wheel revolution) but it is a little jerky(& the firebox glow flickers showing there is an issue at slower speeds) In forwards however it is still quite jerky & certainly could not be used in an exhibition....... This would imply it is a motor issue (or maybe gear box) rather5 than in my case PCB issue. As far as controllers I use modern Gaugemaster Handheld units & have more than one of each & it makes no difference which I use....... As an aside I have a Hornby Ruston that works a treat in either mode without the use of it's match truck hauling six Bachmann clay wagons up quite a steep slope smoothly & slowly...... As I said I knew I would invalidate the warranty by messing about with the wiring & if you don't use feedback as a form of control it won't be a problem as in ordinary DC mode the performance is acceptable if not brilliant..... Just my observation on what is a great looking model.... Cheers Bill 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoandy Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Hello everyone, Firstly, I am sorry it has taken me a couple of days to get onto this thread - this week as you can imagine has been entertaining! We are aware that on DCC there are issues for some people. We have been in touch with Model Rail, YouChoos and many individuals to try and ascertain in what circumstances faults are occurring (as it is evident that the fault is not apparent on all models) and to keep everyone in the loop. We are working on a solution which I hope to have some further news on in the next couple of weeks. Unfortunately, it is not possible to have an instantaneous solution as it involves people from three continents, different time zones and some testing to ensure that our solution does not bring further or unexpected issues. I would ask anyone that has an issue to drop an email to customerservice@rapidotrains.co.uk that way as soon as our solution is to had I can contact you directly. I know its frustrating, please be patient and I promise I will come back to you when there is a little more to report as soon as I possibly can. Thanks Andy 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
89A Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 On 10/03/2021 at 09:07, csvt2004 said: Ah that is very interesting. Where are the C1 and C2 capacitors? Are they surface mount jobs on the pcb? Richard On 10/03/2021 at 09:34, 89A said: Yes. Relatively simple to remove. Not so simple. I had to crush them between the tips of a small circlips pliers in the end. But ok now. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60159 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I've had my Model Rail 16xx for a couple of weeks now and overall, a nice model. However (there is always a however!) - In my view it is too highly geared and capable of unbelievable high speed although it does still run well at slow speeds .... on DC. However, its performance using a feedback controller is diabolical. It is very jerky and very noisy and really unuseable with feedback. It is slightly better in reverse with feedback but still unuseable. Interestingly, on straight DC it is also marginally better in reverse than forward. If I hadn't already done mods to it (after running in and testing on straight DC rolling road) I would have returned it as both on my home layout and our club exhibition layout, feedback is preferred. The fitted couplings are a joke given how much they project and relegate the "out of box" appearance to that of a toy. I usually anyway fit wire front couplings where needed and substitute a short Bachmann coupling (filed down and without hook) to the rear but in this case the rear also required a wire coupling. I've attached some pics. (The wire is brass chemically blackened, not painted). The model is 1649 factory weathered but the weathering still has still to be significantly improved. I've fitted etched cab side number plates and I've still to do real coal in the tender. Mike 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 36 minutes ago, 60159 said: I've had my Model Rail 16xx for a couple of weeks now and overall, a nice model. However (there is always a however!) - In my view it is too highly geared and capable of unbelievable high speed although it does still run well at slow speeds .... on DC. However, its performance using a feedback controller is diabolical. It is very jerky and very noisy and really unuseable with feedback. It is slightly better in reverse with feedback but still unuseable. Interestingly, on straight DC it is also marginally better in reverse than forward. If I hadn't already done mods to it (after running in and testing on straight DC rolling road) I would have returned it as both on my home layout and our club exhibition layout, feedback is preferred. The fitted couplings are a joke given how much they project and relegate the "out of box" appearance to that of a toy. I usually anyway fit wire front couplings where needed and substitute a short Bachmann coupling (filed down and without hook) to the rear but in this case the rear also required a wire coupling. I've attached some pics. (The wire is brass chemically blackened, not painted). The model is 1649 factory weathered but the weathering still has still to be significantly improved. I've fitted etched cab side number plates and I've still to do real coal in the tender. Mike Hi 60149 I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one with a feedback issue.....But obviously not..... My problems are identical to yours with both the original & replacement having the same issues......See my post above.....With the advice given from Model Rail that if the second loco didn't work properly then that is how it is....Which ain't good for an expensive loco...... I too have replaced the couplings with a wire loop at the front & my own design auto coupling hook on the back......See photo's attached.... The coal load has been removed (with a bit of force it just pops out ) & a plasticard replacement base glued in place roughly painted black awaiting real coal to be applied..... How are you going to manage at exhibitions? I have a similar problem in that I use feed back for my layout at both home & exhibitions...... Cheers Bill 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60159 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Hi Bill, fortunately on both home and club layouts it's easy to swap between straight DC and feedback controllers. My preference for feedback (shared with some, but not all club members) is it nicely overcomes a voltage drop (which we get in one distant location) without having to be watchful and adjust the setting. On my home layout it also allows a smooth performance on a slightly out of scale incline (space issue!) I have several kit-built locos some, with Portescaps and contrary to common belief they run fine with feedback except for one (which has a fairly old Portescap). I like the 16xx but disappointed with the shortcomings which one should not expect, particularly as it's aimed at "modellers". (The Model Rail sentinel by contrast is very fine wee model and runs beautifully - especially for a 4-wheeler!) Mike 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, 60159 said: Hi Bill, fortunately on both home and club layouts it's easy to swap between straight DC and feedback controllers. My preference for feedback (shared with some, but not all club members) is it nicely overcomes a voltage drop (which we get in one distant location) without having to be watchful and adjust the setting. On my home layout it also allows a smooth performance on a slightly out of scale incline (space issue!) I have several kit-built locos some, with Portescaps and contrary to common belief they run fine with feedback except for one (which has a fairly old Portescap). I like the 16xx but disappointed with the shortcomings which one should not expect, particularly as it's aimed at "modellers". (The Model Rail sentinel by contrast is very fine wee model and runs beautifully - especially for a 4-wheeler!) Mike Hi Mike I agree with your final comment ref the shortcomings..... I've been buying 'Trains' for fifty years & this is the first item I've ever returned to the supplier !!!!!! I put informative /useful as I too have several kitbuilt loco's with Portescap's in them so must try them with the feedback controllers .... Cheers Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 8 hours ago, treggyman said: I too have replaced the couplings with a wire loop at the front & my own design auto coupling hook on the back......See photo's attached... Interesting - have you posted details of this anywhere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Just now, Ben Alder said: Interesting - have you posted details of this anywhere? Hi The short answer is yes... The long answer is it'sin one of my layout threads but but I can't remember which..... If you like I can try & find it or do it again...... Cheers Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 If you could I would be interested in seeing how it works, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Ben Alder said: If you could I would be interested in seeing how it works, thanks. Hi Will do but rather than hijack the thread I'll PM you whn I've found it or redone it.... Cheers Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2021 An interesting review/overview of sorts on these in the latest Model Rail issue No. 285. No other magazine will do one for obvious reasons ,so it's this or nothing. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted March 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 hour ago, gwrrob said: No other magazine will do one for obvious reasons But why not? Look at it this way, someone has brought a new RTR loco to market. Surely it's something that the other magazines would also like to review? 1 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted March 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said: But why not? Look at it this way, someone has brought a new RTR loco to market. Surely it's something that the other magazines would also like to review? Perhaps they haven't been sent a review sample. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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