New Hornby Rocket

[PaulRhB]

2 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

As far as I can see, with a little patience there has been (and is) ample opportunity to get these at £16.99 if one doesn't fall for the hype. There is a limit about what Hornby can do regarding re-sellers. 

I'm finding myself a little breathless at all the frothing, it's just toy trains.....!

There is as long as hiking up to speculators prices doesn’t become an accepted norm by shops. One or two have done it for years now two decent shops I’ve dealt with and liked have joined in, it’s concerning as others will be forced to consider “am I the mug?” for not doing it?

[Coach bogie]

2 hours ago, PetersSpares said:

Hi Mike, You placed your order at £16.99 and you got them at £16.99 as promised. The remaining stock is at the current market price. Thanks Peter 

 

As I clearly stated above the original price was honoured. I did not mention any you or any retailer by name, you were highlighted by name in an other post.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, miles73128 said:

I think the real point here is the crazy RRP set by Hornby in the first place. Talk about not understand your market and demand. It was clearly miss priced in the first place. Should have been at least £24.99 and prob £29.99, lots of revenue lost to both retailers and Hornby. 

 

Nope. The RRP is correct. It's virtually an open wagon.

 

Are we really expected to pay £30 for bog standard wagons?

 

 

Jason

[MGR Hooper!]

3 hours ago, miles73128 said:

I think the real point here is the crazy RRP set by Hornby in the first place. Talk about not understand your market and demand. It was clearly miss priced in the first place. Should have been at least £24.99 and prob £29.99, lots of revenue lost to both retailers and Hornby. 

 

3 hours ago, Legend said:

I think Hornby have probably underpriced this one . But only in model railways would you actually get people pointing this out!   

It is as good as any open wagon in the current Hornby range. The issue is not with the price. I am glad Hornby haven't use this as an opportunity to rip people off (and let's face it, this is a classic product to do just that). They have been extremely sensible about the price.

Hornby's mistake was limiting it to such a small amount when we all knew it was going to be a high selling item.

[Islesy]

10 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Hornby's mistake was limiting it to such a small amount when we all knew it was going to be a high selling item.

A sense of perspective is needed here chaps and chapesses - this item was released ahead of its original release date in response to a speculative release by another 'manufacturer'. Given how Hornby operate their releases, do you honestly think that there will not be further releases in the future? When have Hornby released only one run of a newly tooled item in recent times? How many 21t Hoppers, 20T Brake Vans etc have been released, as a direct comparison?

All this has highlighted is the 'must have it now' attitude of many 'collectors', when what was required was perspective, common sense, product awareness and patience...

[miles73128]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Nope. The RRP is correct. It's virtually an open wagon.

 

Are we really expected to pay £30 for bog standard wagons?

 

 

Jason

What it is, is irrelevant. It’s a supply and demand pricing power issue. All companies have to maximise sales and maximise return. Neither underselling nor overpricing.  It’s about levering the brand power/demand vs supply ratio. 

[miles73128]

1 hour ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

It is as good as any open wagon in the current Hornby range. The issue is not with the price. I am glad Hornby haven't use this as an opportunity to rip people off (and let's face it, this is a classic product to do just that). They have been extremely sensible about the price.

Hornby's mistake was limiting it to such a small amount when we all knew it was going to be a high selling item.

Difficult to think it’s a rip off, people have a choice to buy or not. Profiteering however is a very emotive subject. One persons view of over priced is another persons view of rarity. However, I do agree that supply seems to be lower than required. But as Islesy says, more on the way, which obvs would change the pricing opportunity back to a lower amount. 
Without knowing the run size/orders and unfulfilled demand we are all guessing somewhat. 

[Roy Langridge]

25 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

What it is, is irrelevant. It’s a supply and demand pricing power issue. All companies have to maximise sales and maximise return. Neither underselling nor overpricing.  It’s about levering the brand power/demand vs supply ratio. 

 

This first batch may have sold for £30 a wagon, but then what do you do when more arrive? Price it lower and annoy those who paid £30 or stick at £30 and fail to sell? Hornby got this right in my opinion.

Roy

[Georgeconna]

2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

The young are being priced out of this hobby left, right and centre. Even second hand prices are now reaching levels that I never thought possible.

 

Roy

And it affects some fellas who are not so young!,  tis Gonna be Doctors and Solicitors hobby again but on the flip side RC stuff has come down greatly from what is used to be which is a handy fall back it I ever want to get out of this hobby.

 

In the end I have enough UK stuff twice over so 2021 one more purchase which will be the D class from Rails and that is it for me, I have More than enough for that massive layout that in truth will probably never get built with the prices of the scenic stuff etc also going crazy has me second guessing what is this all about just to watch a train go round and round! Therapeutic perhaps.

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

48 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

What it is, is irrelevant. It’s a supply and demand pricing power issue. All companies have to maximise sales and maximise return. Neither underselling nor overpricing.  It’s about levering the brand power/demand vs supply ratio. 

 

It's not supply and demand.

 

I got three for just over £50 with free postage direct from Hornby. That's it's price. Paying more than that is insane. It's already been pointed out numerous times that there will probably be more coming soon.

 

£50.97 to be exact. £16.99 each, delivered straight to my house.

 

So because of a few speculators and people with FOMO we are expected to pay more due to other people's greed or stupidity? 

 

They're very nice. But not even as detailed or complex as a brake van. In fact I have a feeling they might even be over priced seeing as the recent Oxford Rail tank wagons are vastly more complicated and are about the same price. This is £18.50 and far more detailed.

 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/340669/oxford_rail_or76tk2004_12_ton_tank_wagon_benzol_and_by_products_/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

Jason

[MGR Hooper!]

1 hour ago, Islesy said:

A sense of perspective is needed here chaps and chapesses - this item was released ahead of its original release date in response to a speculative release by another 'manufacturer'. Given how Hornby operate their releases, do you honestly think that there will not be further releases in the future? When have Hornby released only one run of a newly tooled item in recent times? How many 21t Hoppers, 20T Brake Vans etc have been released, as a direct comparison?

All this has highlighted is the 'must have it now' attitude of many 'collectors', when what was required was perspective, common sense, product awareness and patience...

I agree Paul, I know Hornby will re-release them at a later date (maybe 2021 also). IIRC the initial batch limited to 1000 pieces. Modellers have common sense, profiteers don't and they will sadly prey upon the less knowledgeable.

The moment you add the word "limited" (you don't even have to add the word edition), a lot of people will react to it by stocking up. 

Another thing that a lot of people would've overlooked is that it was announced in July and intended for release in September, theoretically that would've meant that production was well underway or atleast signed off with the factory and negotiating a higher quantity was next to impossible.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

What ever happened to the understanding that fools and their money are easily parted ?

 

This is especially true if, as is reported, more are on the way.

 

 

Gibbo.

[meatloaf]

20 hours ago, Chrisr40 said:

Well stamps have gone up...

not till 1st jan 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

This first batch may have sold for £30 a wagon, but then what do you do when more arrive? Price it lower and annoy those who paid £30 or stick at £30 and fail to sell? Hornby got this right in my opinion.

Roy

Package it differently..

 

Set of 2

Rocket + 1st +3rd as a set in a perspex box

Ive previously suggested Rocket as Duty free on a plane.

I think these wagons should have been a limited edition 3 pack at £99.99.

Less packaging etc, greater margin.

 

follow up with singles at regular price for those wanting more.

 

The way it is now, you just know whats going to happen...indeed you could code it in a computer program..

 

Loop
    New model = R——

    1st run, gold dust.

    2nd run, discounted everywhere.

Repeat

 

Its like groundhog day.

Whats new in 2020 is retailers are catching on to what their customers have been doing.

Someone above is suggesting Hornby might learn what their retailers are doing. (i think Bachmann learned that in 2014).

 

The concern is, how much speculating is feeding the bubble.. as if they leave is when the yolk starts to leak.

 

There is way around this..

Adopt a consumer electronics pricing approach..

 

The LGB comment Isnt necessarily bad...

 

This years metal Duchess in a Dublo box was a fantastic idea.

If they repeated that with 1 loco class, two max three liveries in a run of 500 each year, (1500) I think they would be on to a real winner and a premium product a 21st century Hornby Dublo.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by adb968008

[miles73128]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

It's not supply and demand.

 

I got three for just over £50 with free postage direct from Hornby. That's it's price. Paying more than that is insane. It's already been pointed out numerous times that there will probably be more coming soon.

 

£50.97 to be exact. £16.99 each, delivered straight to my house.

 

So because of a few speculators and people with FOMO we are expected to pay more due to other people's greed or stupidity? 

 

They're very nice. But not even as detailed or complex as a brake van. In fact I have a feeling they might even be over priced seeing as the recent Oxford Rail tank wagons are vastly more complicated and are about the same price. This is £18.50 and far more detailed.

 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/340669/oxford_rail_or76tk2004_12_ton_tank_wagon_benzol_and_by_products_/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

Jason

Indeed. I bought mine from Hornby also. Just that you have missed the point. Never mind. 

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

think these wagons should have been a limited edition 3 pack at £99.99.

Fortunately it appears Hornby aren’t as greedy as you think people should be. 
Maybe Pfizer should charge £1000 a shot as some people would be prepared to pay it? 
Honestly it’s a blummin hobby stop trying to turn it into some investment bankers wet dream!

[sandwich station]

8 hours ago, miles73128 said:

I think the real point here is the crazy RRP set by Hornby in the first place. Talk about not understand your market and demand. It was clearly miss priced in the first place. Should have been at least £24.99 and prob £29.99, lots of revenue lost to both retailers and Hornby. 

 

I can't see how Hornby could charge more for it. It is rather small (even compered to a wagon), there really isn't much to it.

[Colin_McLeod]

After a few years complaining that model railways are too expensive, are we now complaining that they are too cheap?

 

 

[JSpencer]

There is no way I would have £30 for one of these. I see Kernow are honoring the correct RRP. In anycase, I suspect an announcement for Lion with 3 of these is just around the corner.....

[Butler Henderson]

24 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

There is no way I would have £30 for one of these. I see Kernow are honoring the correct RRP. 

And they have tweeted this evening "Don't pay ridiculous prices for your Hornby Model Railways Rocket Third Class Coach OO Gauge - we have them in stock and ready to go! "

[Roy Langridge]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Package it differently..

 

Set of 2

Rocket + 1st +3rd as a set in a perspex box

Ive previously suggested Rocket as Duty free on a plane.

I think these wagons should have been a limited edition 3 pack at £99.99.

Less packaging etc, greater margin.

 

...

 

No Duty on a Rocket anyway so would not be cheaper 

 

Simple economics says you will sell more of an item at £16.99 than at £29.99. Yes, the latter may make you a bigger margin, but how much of a bigger margin and at what cost to future sales I would argue neither of know. By that I mean offer a limited edition set of three 3rd class wagons for £99.99 and sell a few. A percentage of those people will then buy track, buy controllers, and a Hornby loco...

Sell that same set for the £50 that three at RRP would cost now and more people will buy them, and more will then buy track, and buy controllers, and buy a Hornby loco... Overall the impact on sales and margin may be greater by selling them cheaper and not making the whole thing "elite".

 

We need items that attract people into this hobby, at an affordable price and Rocket may well do that. For example:

• Does a 47, Deltic or even a Royal Scot have that same eye catching appeal of a tiny Rocket that can run on a simple oval of track?
• £179.99 RRP gets you a whole train with Rocket, only £9 more than just a Royal Scot will cost you at RRP, you are then buying coaches on top.

Get people interested in your brand and the hobby in general and from there the interest grows and purchases increase. Many people on this forum are able to spend considerable amounts of money on the hobby (me included), but others cannot. 

 

As I have also said before, I fear for the future of this hobby with price being a considerable barrier to entry now. In the case of Rocket and the 3rd class coaches, as I also said before, I think Hornby got this one spot on regarding price.

Roy

[jcredfer]

5 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

And they have tweeted this evening "Don't pay ridiculous prices for your Hornby Model Railways Rocket Third Class Coach OO Gauge - we have them in stock and ready to go! "

 

Reflecting Kernow's long adopted honest broker principles.  Perhaps why they have been a favourite dealer of choice for a decade.  That includes their open, customer support, over dealings with a designer who failed to be able to produce the promised product.  Kernow took it over and the promised product was delivered to all those who had ordered them. 

 

Julian

 

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Fortunately it appears Hornby aren’t as greedy as you think people should be. 
Maybe Pfizer should charge £1000 a shot as some people would be prepared to pay it? 
Honestly it’s a blummin hobby stop trying to turn it into some investment bankers wet dream!

Speaking inretrospec is hardly “turning it”. its already happened.

 

your misinterpreting me...if I were the investment banker, I wouldn't be the one complaining about whats going on.
 

If Your against Hornby making a profit, then who do you think should get it ? The consumer or the retailer ?

 

But people are paying, willingly, way above rrp, for a product that is widely available to buy.
 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by adb968008

[Ouroborus]

51 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

 

Reflecting Kernow's long adopted honest broker principles.  Perhaps why they have been a favourite dealer of choice for a decade.  That includes their open, customer support, over dealings with a designer who failed to be able to produce the promised product.  Kernow took it over and the promised product was delivered to all those who had ordered them. 

 

Julian

 

 

Oh don't worry about that.  Plenty of us in this world who have long memories.  Agree with you about kernow, never had anything but stellar service from them.  But I'm afraid I'm brand loyal to Derails who moved heaven and earth to get me an old oak common HST and then flogged it to me cheaper because that happened to be the first day they could discount it.  Like Kernow, no markup at Derails.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Ouroborus

[PaulRhB]

20 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

If Your against Hornby making a profit, then who do you think should get it ? The consumer or the retailer ?

I have no idea where you got that from, I said fortunately Hornby, based on what we can assume is a profitable rrp, aren’t as greedy as you think they should be when you’re the one saying they are getting it wrong still.

 I think Hornby know what they are doing and don’t think they are daft enough to sell it at such a loss as you are speculating that they need to make another £13 extra on top. 
The set coaches are a lot more sophisticated in mouldings, printing and assembly if you take them apart to pop figures in and probably are £30-35 each still making the set a very reasonable price. 
I could afford to pay more but I appreciate Hornby not wildly profiteering based on what they set as the rrp compared to what you say they should sell them at based on eBay profiteers.