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Graham_Muz

New tooling - BR Standard 2MT 2-6-0 2MT 78xxx

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1 hour ago, Daddyman said:

... Slightly galling too that Bachmann managed to use a plastic boiler and get the motor mostly into the firebox on the LMS 2MT (albeit with the backhead intruding into the cab slightly); is there anything wrong with its haulage power? 

Very lightfooted indeed! I mucked about with one for a friend to impart the traction he wanted, when this was a recent introduction. A general mazakectomy to make space for denser lead in brief. (I have significantly upweighted most of Bachmann and Hornby's steam models to obtain the traction which their drivelines can deliver, with no ill effect to date. Careful attention to lubrication of the exposed working parts is the sole requirement. Coming up to 20 years on the oldest which are the WD 2-8-0s.)

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7 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Very lightfooted indeed! I mucked about with one for a friend to impart the traction he wanted, when this was a recent introduction. A general mazakectomy to make space for denser lead in brief. (I have significantly upweighted most of Bachmann and Hornby's steam models to obtain the traction which their drivelines can deliver, with no ill effect to date. Careful attention to lubrication of the exposed working parts is the sole requirement. Coming up to 20 years on the oldest which are the WD 2-8-0s.)

Interesting. I haven't run mine for some time, but don't remember them being particularly bad. But the hack that you describe is (to me) still infinitely preferable to Hornby's prioritisation of traction over looks.

 

When you say lightfooted, what are we talking? I thought mine managed 5 or 6 Bachmann Mk1s (all I'd ever want them to), but I may be misremembering. 

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Bear in mind on the big railway these were Class 2 power.

Modelling use should generally reflect that.

 

Davy.

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5 hours ago, Daddyman said:

When you say lightfooted, what are we talking? I thought mine managed 5 or 6 Bachmann Mk1s (all I'd ever want them to), but I may be misremembering. 

 

21 minutes ago, Mad McCann said:

Bear in mind on the big railway these were Class 2 power.

Modelling use should generally reflect that.

Freight was the problem, with his wagons. Much past a dozen wagons and it couldn't reliably start without excessive slipping. Compared to his small whitemetal locos very poor indeed. Weight fixed it. (It would have been possible to fit the wagon fleet with pinpoints, but that would have cost money, he had near 200 kit and scratch built wagons with round ended Jacksons in Peco's no roll bearings. My hacking and bashing lead was free.)

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8 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 

Freight was the problem, with his wagons. Much past a dozen wagons and it couldn't reliably start without excessive slipping. Compared to his small whitemetal locos very poor indeed. Weight fixed it. (It would have been possible to fit the wagon fleet with pinpoints, but that would have cost money, he had near 200 kit and scratch built wagons with round ended Jacksons in Peco's no roll bearings. My hacking and bashing lead was free.)

 

Ah that would explain why. Mine has no trouble pulling a decent freight train of modern RTR rolling stock. But I bet she would suffer if I were to put old RTR, poor free running, non pin point stock behind her. I've generally phased those out of service. She is lot stronger and better than Hornby's 1970s effort though.

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Regarding R3839

Both Model Rail and BRM are listing 78000 as being in BR lined Black early emblem in their Hornby announcements, where as certain online retailers are listing for pre order in unlined Green. 
 

February Model Rail is listing new 2020 Hornby as

R3836 78047 as BR late emblem green 

R3838 78010 BR late emblem Black

R3839 78000 BR early emblem lined black.

 

BRM in the Hornby Special section is pretty much the same.

 

so who’s correct?

Edited by Ramrig
Corrections

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51 minutes ago, Ramrig said:

Regarding R3839

Both Model Rail and BRM are listing 78000 as being in BR lined Black early emblem in their Hornby announcements, where as certain online retailers are listing for pre order in unlined Green. 
 

February Model Rail is listing new 2020 Hornby as

R3836 78047 as BR late emblem green 

R3838 78010 BR late emblem Black

R3839 78000 BR early emblem lined black.

 

BRM in the Hornby Special section is pretty much the same.

 

so who’s correct?

I don't think the magazines have it correct as the first 10 locos (78000 to 78009) were painted in unlined br green, the rest were all painted br lined black, so R3839 would be in unlined br green with late crest and both R3838 and R3836 wouls have br lined black livery with R3838 having the early emblem and R3836 would have the late crest.

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According to the RCTS Volume the first 10 that went to the BR Western Region were in lined black and with larger numerals.

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78000 is the BR Green late crest version as running on the Cambrian in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited by Steamport Southport

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In reply to some earlier posts, I've not seen any photographic evidence (yet) of 78010 running over Stainmore, 78010 to 78014 didn't hang around at West Auckland for that long unlike 78015 to 78019 which stayed for several years. However here is plenty of evidence of 78011, 78013 and 78014 running over the Stainmore route whilst they were at West Auckland so safe to assume the other two must have.

 

On Stainmore Summit I had 78013, 78016, 78018 (all DJH kits) running over, so one or two more on my new layout of Barnard Castle wont go amiss.

 

Richard

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5 hours ago, [email protected] said:

In reply to some earlier posts, I've not seen any photographic evidence (yet) of 78010 running over Stainmore, 78010 to 78014 didn't hang around at West Auckland for that long unlike 78015 to 78019 which stayed for several years. However here is plenty of evidence of 78011, 78013 and 78014 running over the Stainmore route whilst they were at West Auckland so safe to assume the other two must have.

 

On Stainmore Summit I had 78013, 78016, 78018 (all DJH kits) running over, so one or two more on my new layout of Barnard Castle wont go amiss.

 

Richard

Off topic, but is the Barnard Castle layout going to be on the exhibition circuit?  And/or is there a thread or a blog about it?  Reason I ask is my friend has quite an interest in that town.  Thanks.

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Probably, it has been built as an exhibition layout, but it's a few years off and I am busy on the exhibition circuit with South Pelaw for the time being. There isn't a thread or blog yet, but the track is complete and I am on with wiring.

 

Richard

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On 30/01/2020 at 23:04, 9402 Fredrick said:

I don't think the magazines have it correct as the first 10 locos (78000 to 78009) were painted in unlined br green, the rest were all painted br lined black, so R3839 would be in unlined br green with late crest and both R3838 and R3836 wouls have br lined black livery with R3838 having the early emblem and R3836 would have the late crest.

 

On 30/01/2020 at 23:29, Fenway Park said:

According to the RCTS Volume the first 10 that went to the BR Western Region were in lined black and with larger numerals.

 

On 30/01/2020 at 23:38, Steamport Southport said:

78000 is the BR Green late crest version as running on the Cambrian in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

 

 

 

Jason

I think we need to get this straight.  The WR allocation were delivered in the standard (lined black) livery for the Class when the engines were new.  Subsequently - depending on shopping dates - the WR engines were repainted in the livery appropriate for the class at the time of repainting.  

 

Only accurately dated photos or notes will tell us which engines were painted in what livery at what time.  Some might have made it into the original unlined green;  according to good photographic (colour film) evidence at least two (78005 and 78006) received the full lined green livery and while I can't identify them by painted number I can remember seeing one or two in lined green in WR service.  Similarly some of them definitely received the final WR green livery for lesser classes of 'economy green' - i.e. the final unlined version with the late emblem:  this latter is presumably what the Hornby model represents as the original unlined green, particularly with the late emblem, would have likely been extremely rare on this small class.  What is not clear is the date at which the WR switched to the 'economy green' livery but I've an idea it was c.1960, maybe even 1961 and ah gain it can really only be checked out against accurately dated photos.

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I added the 1950s bit as I found a 1960 photo of it in what looks like BR green (but could be faded black) at Machynlleth looking a bit dirty. Clearly not a recent paint job, so I thought it would have been painted earlier than 1960.

 

Photo on the RCTS website.

 

However I've just found this which suggests April 1961.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p645313931/hD7F9DB38#hd7f9db38

 

 

 

Jason

Edited by Steamport Southport

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6 hours ago, 9402 Fredrick said:

78010 is being released in BR lined black with early emblem.

 

On 30/01/2020 at 22:06, Ramrig said:

Regarding R3839

Both Model Rail and BRM are listing 78000 as being in BR lined Black early emblem in their Hornby announcements, where as certain online retailers are listing for pre order in unlined Green. 
 

February Model Rail is listing new 2020 Hornby as

R3836 78047 as BR late emblem green 

R3838 78010 BR late emblem Black

R3839 78000 BR early emblem lined black.

 

BRM in the Hornby Special section is pretty much the same.

 

so who’s correct?

 

Some clarification is needed as to the liveries proposed. Hornby don't say what colour or lining is being used for anything, just era numbers.

 

For 78010 Hornby quote Era 4, which I assume to be Lined Black, Early Emblem. Hattons say Early Black. The post above say Late Emblem Black, which would be as the picture I posted.

For 78000 Hornby quote Era 5. Hattons say Late Unlined Green. The post above say Early Emblem Lined Black, which is the livery it was carrying in mid-1956. In 1961 it appears to be carrying Unlined Green Late Crest ex-works at Swindon.

For 78047 Hornby quote Era 5 and the picture they used shows it when carrying Lined Black Late Crest. Hattons say Late Black. The post above say Lined Green Late Crest.

 

Confused, The Dark Peak.

Edited by TheSignalEngineer
78010 corrected
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