Preorder email

[Ian Hargrave]

13 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Me too.

 

ive cancelled 8 orders with Hornby direct and I said exactly why in my email.

I doubt anyone there cared, i just got the “ok” response.

 

I have actually canceled more than £5k of pre-orders across the hobby this month, about 30% my annual spend. (I admit I do buy more than the average modeller as as much a collector, though I suspect i’m not the only one, but just one who cares to admit it).

 

Ive only ever found 1 retailer who actually cared about my annual spend, so they have approx 40% my spend just in themselves, to everyone else i’m just another joe at their website.

 

 

 

 

 

Well please forgive me for this but when The Last Of The Big Spenders vows such an act of self denial  then the earth should be trembling under the ground down there in Sandwich 

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

 

 

I think - if the tier system is very real - that enforcing this suddenly midway of year long after all pre-orders have been placed is really bad timing. They should have at least honored all pre-orders and then tell the shops it will be enforced for 2022s announcements so shops and end customers are suddenly not left high and dry.

 

From a previous email a couple of pages back from an email from Hornby to Col. Stephens

Hatton's have had clear communication from the directors in regards to the allocation review and the reasons surrounding why allocation reviews have needed to take place. 

 

Any changes in T&Cs would usually have been communicated some time before their implementation.

How do we not know that this has been coming for some time and neither party (ies) were willing to stand down?

And we've now reached crunch time.

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by newbryford

[AY Mod]

17 minutes ago, Brian Indge said:

Hornby could stop all the foaming at the mouth by being upfront to prospective customers about the supply situation but have chosen not to.

 

Phil has been working at us trying to be even-handed and extended an invitation to Hornby to have the opportunity to respond. We'll keep you posted.

[woodenhead]

21 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I have actually canceled more than £5k of pre-orders across the hobby this month, about 25-30% my annual spend, as tbh it feels the overall atmosphere is changing. (I admit I do buy more than the average modeller as I am as much a collector too, though I suspect i’m not the only one like myself, but just one who cares to admit it, though admittedly I sell quite a lot too

 

And my wife raises her eyebrows when I purchase a Farish 25.....

 

Is there £20k worth of releases every year?

[newbryford]

6 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

And my wife raises her eyebrows when I purchase a Farish 25.....

 

Is there £20k worth of releases every year?

 

There is if you buy 10 of everything........................

[adb968008]

51 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

And my wife raises her eyebrows when I purchase a Farish 25.....

 

Is there £20k worth of releases every year?

And for everything else, there is ebay.

I spend a lot, But as I say, I do churn a lot.

Ive no qualms of buying a couple, renumbering / renaming and feel I probably do have a top level collection (my layout wont win a Pulitzer but my collection might).

I've no issues jumping in to buy something and give it go.

 

fwiw Ive had the hattons mail no less than 16 times this year.. Literally everything Hornby I had on back order got canceled... the last one was yesterday. (ive bought 40x class 66’s since November, so its not as if they havent seen my wallet, and it shows all spenders are treated equally in the cancelations)

Initial reaction was those I “must have” but did not have/could not get elsewhere, I went to Hornby.com, the others went to others.. but inretrospect, I concluded why should I pay full retail, this isnt my fault.. hence I went about face and canceled at Hornby, and reduced some others, then suddenly I’d canceled £5k across several retailers.

 

Fortunately, as I dont mind renumbering I will often make a split order, and order 2 of the same but from 2 different retailers, so for most part i’m covered with 1 retailer who has looked after me historically... ive got 6x DRS20’s, from 2 retailers for instance, though chances are I’ll sell 2 in the future and never buy another DRS20 again... I bought 6x 94xx, but today I only own 3, but also additionally disposed of 2 kit/rebuilds too, so my collection is in reality only +1.

 

Thing is as prices rise, doing the renumbers becomes harder to justify.

When the experience isnt good interest wanes... its taken me 2 months to get all 9 coronation coaches, from one retailer held to high esteem here, who had them in stock and missed part of my order twice.. they also sent me two locos both which arrived damaged this month to. Its not just not knowing if Hornby can supply, the retailers themselves have a part to play.

when it comes to spend i’m sure the respray specialists spend much more than I.

 

But if I cant get it... then why bother pre-ordering it ?

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by adb968008

[jonnyuk]

3 hours ago, Downer said:

One could make a killing selling Tier One tee-shirts to the lucky proprietors.

 

More seriously, the overall lack of transparency at work here is an insult to the consumer.

why? Hornby have their policies with the retailer, have their tier system, they will have a list of stockists (maybe that needs updating), if you want something call a retailer, if they don't have it, move onto the next retailer

[Matt C]

Out of interest, having just looked on Amazon there are a surprising number of Hornby products for sale, almost 300 of which appear to be from Hornby Hobbies Ltd, A fair number under Amazon Direct and the balance from other  small suppliers ( some at surprising discounts or limited time offers)

Is this Hornby's new ' Firesale' outlet ?

 I wonder if they HAVE decided in the changing market that they need to do a fundamental change rather than suffer 'death by a thousand cuts' as more and more retailers go the comissioning route.

 In the past  box shifters like Hattons (and others)  take pre orders on a newly announced item, letting Hornby do all the work and take all the risk/ cost in bringing it to market, then buy at trade and sell at a discounted retail price. Low risk medium gain. THEN buy up any remaining 'fire sale' stock and sell it cheap. Other smaller retailers struggle to compete with this so losing out apart from loyal local customers. It does look as though Hornby have decided that in this new age of smaller runs, they can take that 'First Bite' of the retail sales, also allowing smaller (loyal ?) Retailers a bigger bite, and THEN let the likes of Hattons at any remaining crumbs if there are any, as well as by the looks of it 'dumping' stock through Amazon if Hatton's etc Dont take it ? 

 Maybe this year is do or die and a decision has been made to cash in on what is probably a fairly unique year of new releases, when a lot of hype and promotion has been done by the modelling world, to snatch back those first sales, and at the same time re set the retail trade around thier products ?

  We Moddellers are a fickle bunch, a lot are saying they 'Wont buy'. Really ? If Hornby online settle down and get direct sales working and the LOCAL retail shops get improved sales, and you can then get your 'Bargain' from either Hattons or Amazon/ Hornby Hobbies ltd. I wonder how many will stick to thier guns ?  Those overseas will have the choice of ordering from a smaller retailer at full price/ postage or waiting to see if Hattons eventually get stock so they can combine costs. not ideal but probably the way it will work in the future.

 

P.S. I'm in no way condoning it, I think the WAY it is being handled sucks and Doesnt show Horby management in a good light. I'm just looking with wide open eyes at the way the market is going and how MAYBE Hornby are looking to survive.

[Roy Langridge]

25 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

why? Hornby have their policies with the retailer, have their tier system, they will have a list of stockists (maybe that needs updating), if you want something call a retailer, if they don't have it, move onto the next retailer

Why? Because Hornby have shown utter contempt for its end customer by cancelling orders with retailers that have been in place for many months. I have taken a look, and yes I could reorder some of what was cancelled, but not all, and at a somewhat higher price for some items. 

Roy

[Steamport Southport]

21 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

why? Hornby have their policies with the retailer, have their tier system, they will have a list of stockists (maybe that needs updating), if you want something call a retailer, if they don't have it, move onto the next retailer

 

Why should we though? Retailers should have advertised stock in stock. Manufacturers should be providing those retailers with stock.

 

If Tesco don't have Kellogg's Corn Flakes I don't go to Sainsburys. I complain to Tesco and they complain to Kellogg's.

 

It's purely Hornby's fault. Why people are blaming the retailers is baffling.

 

100 years. The way they are annoying their core customers they won't last another five.

 

 

 

Jason

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Me too.

 

ive cancelled 8 orders with Hornby direct and I said exactly why in my email.

I doubt anyone there cared, i just got the “ok” response.

 

I have actually canceled more than £5k of pre-orders across the hobby this month, about 25-30% my annual spend, as tbh it feels the overall atmosphere is changing. (I admit I do buy more than the average modeller as I am as much a collector too, though I suspect i’m not the only one like myself, but just one who cares to admit it, though admittedly I sell quite a lot too).

 

Ive only ever found 1 retailer who actually cared about my annual spend, so they have approx 40% my spend just in themselves and happy with them. To everyone else i’m just another joe at their website, ymmv, which means I shift my orders to suit and without loyalty to those.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I await a response from Hornby to my email cancelling my pre-orders with them. I didn't hold back with letting them know my level of discontent and, politely, told them that they were out of order.

 

It will make no difference, but my principles are important to me. 

 

Now, who can make a new Class 31 and 56?

Roy

[jonnyuk]

4 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Why? Because Hornby have shown utter contempt for its end customer by cancelling orders with retailers that have been in place for many months. I have taken a look, and yes I could reorder some of what was cancelled, but not all, and at a somewhat higher price for some items. 

Roy

but did AJM (forgive me as i may have the wrong name) say in their group post on facebook or where ever it was  (mentioned  a few pages ago) that this new policy was set at the start of the year and all retailers knew their tier and what the tiers meant. I take that as you the retailer knew the score.

Edited May 21, 2021 by jonnyuk
corrected my English (still sucks though)

[adb968008]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Why should we though? Retailers should have advertised stock in stock. Manufacturers should be providing those retailers with stock.

 

If Tesco don't have Kellogg's Corn Flakes I don't go to Sainsburys. I complain to Tesco and they complain to Kellogg's.

 

It's purely Hornby's fault. Why people are blaming the retailers is baffling.

 

100 years. The way they are annoying their core customers they won't last another five.

 

 

 

Jason

100%

 

no ones blaming the ice cream van for not having any 99’s...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/18/99-uk-ice-cream-shortage-cadbury-flakes-uk-ireland

 

Cadburys arent making them.. blame cadburys.

[Roy Langridge]

7 minutes ago, Matt C said:

P.S. I'm in no way condoning it, I think the WAY it is being handled sucks and Doesnt show Horby management in a good light. I'm just looking with wide open eyes at the way the market is going and how MAYBE Hornby are looking to survive.

 

Alienating your end customer is not a good way to survive.

Roy

[jonnyuk]

Matt C actually talks allot of sense and i agree with him

[Roy Langridge]

2 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

but did AJM (forgive me as i may have the wrong name) say in their group post on facebook or where ever it was  (mentioned  a few pages ago) that this new policy was set at the start of the year and all retailers knew their tier and what the tiers meant. I take that as you the retailer knew the score.

 

Most of my pre-orders date from January 2020...

[jonnyuk]

i'm done with this thread, going to play with my new MN i picked up today from my tier one retailer (local model shop with a great selection of product, well looked after shop, accessible etc) who has said my Hush Hush is perfectly save with him. Enough said.

[Ouroborus]

Its been a rollercoaster ride of emotions on this thread hasn't it?  I can't help have some sympathy for Hattons.  Hats off to the members who cancelled their orders with Hornby.   I wonder how much more from page 26 will come true?

Edited May 21, 2021 by Ouroborus
Grammar

[Pete the Elaner]

31 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

why? Hornby have their policies with the retailer, have their tier system, they will have a list of stockists (maybe that needs updating), if you want something call a retailer, if they don't have it, move onto the next retailer

 

Does this tier system actually exist or was it somebody's theory as to why availability appears to vary across retailers?

 

6 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Why? Because Hornby have shown utter contempt for its end customer by cancelling orders with retailers that have been in place for many months. I have taken a look, and yes I could reorder some of what was cancelled, but not all, and at a somewhat higher price for some items. 

Roy

 

Have they? Do you actually know that?

Hattons have said no more than they are unable to fulfill Hornby pre-orders. How can anybody decide it is Hornby's fault without further details?

Have Hornby made a statement to explain what is going on?

[Roy Langridge]

Just now, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Does this tier system actually exist or was it somebody's theory as to why availability appears to vary across retailers?

 

 

Have they? Do you actually know that?

Hattons have said no more than they are unable to fulfill Hornby pre-orders. How can anybody decide it is Hornby's fault without further details?

Have Hornby made a statement to explain what is going on?

 

I suggest you read back up thread where the tiers are explained by another retailer who has been left frustrated by Hornby...

Roy  

[Joseph_Pestell]

4 hours ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

There is are two obvious solutions for retailers who want to commission their own models (maybe more) ;

 

1:  Go into some form of "partnership" with an existing "small supplier", so instead of coming out for sale with a retailer's name on it it would be officially be produced by a third party.

 

2:  Form a dummy company ( e.g. HattonRail anonymous ) and act like one of the "smaller suppliers".

 

At  the moment it would seem only the honest and upfront retailers are suffering.

 

.

 

 

 

.

 

There is a massive advantage to be had as a retailer by commissioning a model - even if it is only a wagon. If you are the sole source for end-users, you get to create a much bigger mailing list than you would otherwise have.

[Pete the Elaner]

Just now, Roy Langridge said:

 

I suggest you read back up thread where the tiers are explained by another retailer who has been left frustrated by Hornby...

Roy  

Through 39 pages? Sod that.

I only asked because I saw it mentioned but it seemed like a theory to explain the issue.

[newbryford]

2 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Through 39 pages? Sod that.

I only asked because I saw it mentioned but it seemed like a theory to explain the issue.

 

The previous 3-4 pages is all it needs.

The tier system and also a copy of an email from Hornby blaming Hattons.....

[Wolf27]

All those who are stating they will not buy from Hornby again are just sh*tting in your own nest. What are you going to do when Hornby announce something that you have been wanting for years? Do you want Hornby to fold and disappear? Perhaps stop your reliance on places like Hattons and look elsewhere.

[Joseph_Pestell]

3 hours ago, Patriot87003 said:

It’s classic supply v demand ....

 

In a parallel universe, there is a similar thing occurring where there is a precious commodity while the demand for the services outstrips the supply.

 

I’m thinking about Harry Kane! Spurs currently have his valuable services but he is considering his options. While Spurs haven’t publicly declared the ‘banding’ of options, it’s not rocket science to workout ... 

 

Priority 1: Keep Kane at Spurs. This option keeps all the ‘goodies’ in-house

 

Priority 2: Sell the services of Kane to a trusted other party for an agreeable price. Example characteristics being a non-rival. Eg Sell to a club abroad (different market place) or complimentary club/different league  ... A non-rival, eg A Man City or Liverpool or Southend Utd(!).

 

Priority 3: If getting desperate for income ... trade through gritted teeth to a rival that’s swimming in the same pond. Eg Chelsea, West Ham, Palace(!) etc.

 

Priority 4: Trade with your mortal enemy ... Arsenal!

 

Relating this analogy back to the Hornby supply v demand pre-order topic; I wouldn’t be surprised if the only trader in Band 1 is Hornby itself (or perhaps they are Band 0). I suspect that retailers that have over time become rivals to Hornby are in a lower banding. However retailers that are complimentary to Hornby and are currently trusted maintain a higher banding and better position in the priority list.

 

This approach makes sense to me. However, as Stationmaster has indicated ... the underlying root cause to get to this situation with the pre-orders appears to be a fundamental mismatch between supply v demand.

 

ps I searched the www but couldn’t find anywhere to place a pre-order for Harry Kane for next season!

 

 

 

You would need to buy "on my head" Son as well to make it a good deal.