Hornby 2022 Range - pre-announcement frothing - now closed

[spamcan61]

1 minute ago, newbryford said:

 

Already announced (and CADs about to start) by Revolution Trains.

 

Does that make a Hornby one more or less likely ... thinks....

[newbryford]

3 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Does that make a Hornby one more or less likely ... thinks....

 

There was rumour that Mr K wasn't happy when Revo announced it.

 

Although this statement makes it unlikely:

Revolution Trains is delighted to have been chosen by ROG and Stadler to produce the Class 93 tri-mode locomotive, which is arguably the most exciting and innovative development on the real railway for many years.

Edited January 8, 2022 by newbryford

[GordonC]

5 minutes ago, scumcat said:

Does this mean retailers should leave manufacturing to manufactures and not make stuff themselves? Just saying

 

if the supply to retailers is not regular, predictable and of sufficient quality, can you blame retailers for wanting to take control of things themselves? After all, do any of our regular 'manufacturers' actually have factories of their own or are they just commissioning things from chinese factories themselves?

[DutyDruid]

5 hours ago, PMP said:

 

 

The tier system was introduced in 2021. That means the story about them being unable to order 2020 release centenary products because of their position in the tier system can’t be true.
That was my point that @Widnes Model Centrehas so spectacularly missed, despite quoting me from it.
 

As someone has pointed out, that press release about the tier system was issued a long time after it was actually introduced because people were starting to ask questions about the sort of thing that is the topic of discussion in this thread.  I grant you that the centenary stuff might not have been the best example to have quoted because a heap of other rules applied to that particular line as well, but the general principles being discussed here were in force way before that press release hit the streets.

[Widnes Model Centre]

2 hours ago, BlueLightning said:

 

With the latest price rises I got an email from Hornby at my shop saying prices for any existing orders would stay the same, and that I had another week to order at the old price, can't say about previous prices rises, as I haven't been at the shop that long.

 

Gary

 

Hi Gary,

Good to see a shop owner on here.

Just to clarify: We will be paying the new price on anything delivered after 15th January. New prices I believe are  on the Hornby website.

I think what is being asked is will Hornby be selling products to us at the preorder price, when customers first placed their orders? In August 2021 there was a minimum 10% price increase on all Hornby railways. That became the New Price providing it is delivered to us very soon.

New releases are expected into the warehouse this coming week. I won't say which in case @Markwj makes a mess on the living room floor.

Anything despatched after the 15th January will have had a few price rises. That will then become the Price. You can of course expect 10% discount at a lot of retailers.

If a customer ordered at £100 and it's now £347 6s 6d then they won't get it for £100 (exagerated figures... I think....)

If I have got it horribly wrong then apologies in advance.

Yesterday a regular customer who has been absent due to long Covid came into the shop. He said that he knew he had no chance as he knew this item was sold out everywhere, but just in case did I have a ??? coming into the shop spare. How many would you like, as we are Tier 2 customers have cancelled preorders in case we let them down?

I quoted him two prices, one if it arrived before the 15th and another price after 15th January. Discounted by 10% on both prices. Beaming toothy smile and he has one on order. I am expecting them this week.

Any other retailer agree with my take on prices?

Edited January 8, 2022 by Widnes Model Centre

[Pmorgancym]

Just get the feeling that this is Hornby's internet mole reading this thread.

[spamcan61]

44 minutes ago, scumcat said:

Does this mean retailers should leave manufacturing to manufactures and not make stuff themselves? Just saying

Fine by me, at least they won't find themselves in tier 3 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, scumcat said:

But that wasn’t what was being said. The conversation was that manufacturers shouldn’t be retailers. So doesn’t it then go that retailers should not be manufacture’s. But in the world we live in you can be both why not

TBH, the quantities supplied  by those who call themselves manufacturers has been progressively reducing over several years. Along with that, timing of supplies has become very unpredictable. 

 

It got to a point where the larger retailers were going to have to scale back their businesses to match the vagaries of supply. and smaller ones were in danger of folding altogether. One example (from one who recently jumped before he was pushed): 36 of an item ordered from Hornby, cut back to 2 by Hornby, only one delivered, and that took several phone calls before it was grudgingly released. 

 

If you can't get the goods from your traditional sources, what do you do? Look to other suppliers? There aren't (or weren't) enough others to make that work, so you take matters into your own hands.

 

Hornby had already demonstrated you don't actually need to make anything to be a "model train manufacturer", so the road ahead  was already mapped. The first moves came from commissioners working either through other brands (Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan) or agents (e.g. DJM for a while) which later extended to dealing direct via factories in China. Most of what got commissioned was stuff that the big boys (at that time) were unlikely to tackle, indeed, that was what mainly motivated the commissioners.

 

Without Hornby cutting up rough with Rails (and Bachmann with Hatton's) that probably wouldn't have been unmanageable, but doing so forced the pace.

 

Now we also have a number of "unaligned" new entrants, some of whom are growing at a rate that must be causing serious concern at Margate (and Barwell). It's all gone way too far now for Hornby to get a grip on it, though. They simply don't have the resources to muscle anybody out using increased supply at reduced prices.

 

Hornby are perfectly entitled to grow their direct sales business, and I think it'll not be many years before they are doing more that way than via the retail trade. Continuing to short-supply the rest of the trade will inevitably speed the process as end-customers seek greater assurance of supply. An inevitable consequence of that is that whatever remains of the traditional retail sector will be further motivated to reduce their reliance on Hornby.

 

Prediction 1: In five years time Hornby will represent no more than a third of the r-t-r UK OO model railway market and at least half of their share will be via direct selling..

 

Prediction 2: In the same timescale, model railways will play a smaller role in Hornby Hobbies than they do today.

 

Do Hornby desire such outcomes? Did they plan them? Almost certainly not, but I think that much of the responsibility for creating the conditions that will bring them to pass can be laid at their door. 

 

The Law of Unintended Consequences writ very large.

 

John

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Dunsignalling
Tidying up and spelling.

[BlueLightning]

1 hour ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Hi Gary,

Good to see a shop owner on here.

Just to clarify: We will be paying the new price on anything delivered after 15th January. New prices I believe are  on the Hornby website.

I think what is being asked is will Hornby be selling products to us at the preorder price, when customers first placed their orders? In August 2021 there was a minimum 10% price increase on all Hornby railways. That became the New Price providing it is delivered to us very soon.

New releases are expected into the warehouse this coming week. I won't say which in case @Markwj makes a mess on the living room floor.

Anything despatched after the 15th January will have had a few price rises. That will then become the Price. You can of course expect 10% discount at a lot of retailers.

If a customer ordered at £100 and it's now £347 6s 6d then they won't get it for £100 (exagerated figures... I think....)

If I have got it horribly wrong then apologies in advance.

Yesterday a regular customer who has been absent due to long Covid came into the shop. He said that he knew he had no chance as he knew this item was sold out everywhere, but just in case did I have a ??? coming into the shop spare. How many would you like, as we are Tier 2 customers have cancelled preorders in case we let them down?

I quoted him two prices, one if it arrived before the 15th and another price after 15th January. Discounted by 10% on both prices. Beaming toothy smile and he has one on order. I am expecting them this week.

Any other retailer agree with my take on prices?

 

I will reread my email when I'm back in the shop, In the meantime I'll concede it's quite likely I would be the one wrong in this situation, I didn't have any outstanding orders with Hornby, or plans to order anything before the announcements, so only read it once, which is a rather low number of reads for me!

[rovex]

There's a kitbuilt Saint on Ebay at the moment. Finishes in eleven hours. If some would like take one for the team and buy it, they could ensure a new release for the rest of us.

[surfsup]

3 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

If Hornby did coffee, would it be instant cappuccino?  All froth and a definite unpleasant aftertaste?

 

Nah, the latest releases from Hornby are rather reminding me of the vending machine at work at the moment. The coffee on the picture looks good, but all you get is a cup of presumably frothy fuzzy milk and hot water instead! 

 

The Farewell HST set being a perfect comparison 

[DutyDruid]

2 minutes ago, surfsup said:

all you get is a cup of presumably frothy fuzzy milk and hot water instead! 

 

Or, if you're a tea drinker, a cup of liquid almost but not quite entirely unlike tea... (with due apologies to Douglas Adams)

[adb968008]

11 hours ago, surfsup said:

 

Nah, the latest releases from Hornby are rather reminding me of the vending machine at work at the moment. The coffee on the picture looks good, but all you get is a cup of presumably frothy fuzzy milk and hot water instead! 

 

The Farewell HST set being a perfect comparison 

A few weeks ago I was at a hotel, it had one of those coffee, chocolate, hot water all in one machine where you press the right button and get what you pressed.

Lady in front of me presses coffee, gets coffee off she goes.

I puts in my tea bag, press hot water and get hot water, then as the machine finishes.. it dribbles a few drops of left over coffee.. yack.

 

So I abandon it try again..

 

I puts in my tea bag, press hot water and get hot water, then as the machine finishes.. it dribbles a few dots of left over coffee.. yack.

 

So I abandon it try again…surely all the residual coffees out of it now…
 

I puts in my tea bag, press hot water and get hot water, then as the machine finishes.. it dribbles a few dots of left over coffee.. yack.

 

So I abandon it, think ‘locks to that…

 

I press hot chocolate, and got hot water…

it had run out of hot chocolate.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by adb968008

[luke_stevens]

I usually end up being the person who tries to get tea after someone had tomato soup...

 

Luke

[GWR-fan]

In pre-internet days we would purchase an annual catalogue listing our favourite manufacturer's products.  We would then visit our regular hobby shop with the intention to view,  handle and then purchase.  Post-internet our favourite manufacturer has had many years of poor financial return seeing the hobby shops making potentially a bigger profit margin than they themselves are making and the bean counters get a thought in their heads,  "Do we really need retail outlets?  We could always direct market to our loyal customers".   Perhaps someone realised that not everyone shops on the internet and thus to support their full MSRP marketing strategy they needed to outcast the major discounters who threatened the viability of their direct marketing approach.  To avoid possible legal entanglements let us introduce a tier system ranking market outlets such that our direct selling profits are not jeopardised.  Eventually the discount stores and smaller retail outlets will get the hint that they are not welcome.  What seemed like a Midas touch at the time may turn out to be little more than fool's gold.

[The Stationmaster]

29 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

A few weeks ago I was at a hotel, it had one of those coffee, chocolate, hot water all in one machine where you press the right button and get what you pressed.

Lady in front of me presses coffee, gets coffee off she goes.

I puts in my tea bag, press hot water and get hot water, then as the machine finishes.. it dribbles a few drops of left over coffee.. yack.

 

So I abandon it try again..

 

I puts in my tea bag, press hot water and get hot water, then as the machine finishes.. it dribbles a few dots of left over coffee.. yack.

 

So I abandon it try again…
 

I puts in my tea bag, press hot water and get hot water, then as the machine finishes.. it dribbles a few dots of left over coffee.. yack.

 

So I abandon it think ‘locks to that…

 

I press hot chocolate, and got hot water…

it had run out of hot chocolate.

 

 

If I have the misfortune to have to use one of those machines I always go for the thing called 'soup' - which usually tastes more like what it is described as than any tea I've had out of such machines in the past.

[GordonC]

2 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

Just get the feeling that this is Hornby's internet mole reading this thread.

 

Having seen the way Hornby have treated dedicated retailers, trampled over any smaller players as 'competition' and customers with contempt, I think a slice of karma is long overdue at Margate.

[The Stationmaster]

4 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

In pre-internet days we would purchase an annual catalogue listing our favourite manufacturer's products.  We would then visit our regular hobby shop with the intention to view,  handle and then purchase.  Post-internet our favourite manufacturer has had many years of poor financial return seeing the hobby shops making potentially a bigger profit margin than they themselves are making and the bean counters get a thought in their heads,  "Do we really need retail outlets?  We could always direct market to our loyal customers".   Perhaps someone realised that not everyone shops on the internet and thus to support their full MSRP marketing strategy they needed to outcast the major discounters who threatened the viability of their direct marketing approach.  To avoid possible legal entanglements let us introduce a tier system ranking market outlets such that our direct selling profits are not jeopardised.  Eventually the discount stores and smaller retail outlets will get the hint that they are not welcome.  What seemed like a Midas touch at the time may turn out to be little more than fool's gold.

I don't think they needed a tier system to shed themselves of major discounters - they devised it afterwards to 'explain' what they had done before they invented it. Tiers replaced whim but they did need a better  system to cope with overselling.

[Andy Hayter]

42 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

If I have the misfortune to have to use one of those machines I always go for the thing called 'soup' - which usually tastes more like what it is described as than any tea I've had out of such machines in the past.

 

I have bed news for you Mike.  There are some evil folk around who scratch out part of the menu.  What you read as soup was actually soap.

 

Now tell me that the results aren't closer to my explanation.

[Mel_H]

12 hours ago, Kim Durose said:

I’ll gladly support a local retailer over mail order with one small caveat.

If the retailer happens to be rude, ignorant, and generally obnoxious towards the people who keep the shop open then I won’t, as is the case with my local model shop.

Regardless of tier awards or accolades.

I’ve been unfortunate enough to deal with this shop …

[mdvle]

13 hours ago, Legend said:

If you stand back from it though , we are talking about rationing in a company that desperately needs to sell everything it can . The key issue for Hornby is manufacturing capacity . 

 

No, the key issue for Hornby is getting their order numbers correct.

 

No one else seems to suffer the problems Hornby has, thus the manufacturing capacity is available.

 

Hornby is ordering too few items, thus it is entirely self inflicted (as it the over ordering of unwanted stuff that Hornby also seems to do regularly).

 

 

[Hroth]

13 hours ago, No Decorum said:

She doesn’t sound like the sort who would bring you tea and a suggestive biscuit in bed. 

But afterwards, perhaps?

[MrTea]

Another announcement of an announcement regarding the Hornby 2022 range. This time 8am:

 

 

I think I might wait until the dust has settled…

[Katie87006]

3 hours ago, MrTea said:

Another announcement of an announcement regarding the Hornby 2022 range. This time 8am:

 

 

I think I might wait until the dust has settled…

 

This is just the Hornby mag review of the Hornby 2022 announcement. Hornby mag and Hornby hobbies plc have no connection at all

[AY Mod]

32 minutes ago, MrTea said:

Another announcement of an announcement regarding the Hornby 2022 range. This time 8am:

 

We will also be publishing the full information at the revised time of 08.00.