Hornby 2022 Range - pre-announcement frothing - now closed

[Standards_in_OO]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

An imaginary heritage railway, on which the modeller also picked favourite vehicles to survive into the preservation era could have numerous practical advantages.

 

Rule One would become legitimate, if not compulsory, as would designing the  layout to fit the space available rather than copying  a prototype or basing it on steam-era practice.

 

Win, win, win?

 

Sort of freelance but not and, of course, just as difficult to pull off convincingly as that's always been. I suspect there are already quite a few home layouts of the kind, but it would take a very confident modeller to exhibit one.

 

John

I am making my version of Goathland with the Harry Potter buildings plus the NER goods shed. I wish I bought the rest of the accessories for Goathland station when they were in the main range! 
 

The Goathland in OO layout that’s been at exhibitions is probably the best heritage layout I have seen. 

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, Standards_in_OO said:

I am making my version of Goathland with the Harry Potter buildings plus the NER goods shed. I wish I bought the rest of the accessories for Goathland station when they were in the main range! 
 

The Goathland in OO layout that’s been at exhibitions is probably the best heritage layout I have seen. 

Agreed, but that's much more "prototypical" than the direction my post (and, I think, the one that inspired it) was coming from.

 

Another possible advantage with a wholly imaginary line might be utilising the entire space available for scenic modelling, with all stock storage "on stage" eliminating the need for a fiddle yard. 

 

John

[Suzy Sulzer]

I do enjoy the annual 'Wishlist' , & 9 times out of 10.A glorious steam locomotive tops the wants. Fortunately Hornby are recognising the modern age , & long may they do so.

 

252 001 HST please 

[Legend]

2 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

The odd thing is, reading the press release fornthe tier systems, there's something along the lines of...

'It will stop high demand items being only available to a handful of.retailers'

When it creates exactly that scenario!

 Let’s face it . It was a way of stopping Rails and Hattons cashing in on pre orders . Rails saw it coming , Hattons unfortunately took all orders then found they weren’t getting an allocation . Did they know in advance or did Hornby pull the rug out from under them - we don’t know but I suspect the latter, given Hornbys chaotic approach.  The rules are simply dressing  applied haphazardly ,given that Widnes appears to meet all criteria . 
 

Hornby want you to order direct. Obviously by keeping retailer margin they make much more money that way . Unfortunately they aren’t well equipped for this with their logistics people sending small boxes out rattling around inside bigger ones .  So another fail Hornby ! 
 

Anyway enough negative vibes . Let’s see what they have to offer on Monday at 10am , or is it 7 am . Looks like they can’t even get that sorted . 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Legend

[ruggedpeak]

2 minutes ago, Legend said:

Unfortunately they aren’t well equipped for this with their logistics people sending small boxes out rattling around inside bigger ones

Seems to work for Amazon!!!

[Legend]

52 minutes ago, Pandora said:

I'm  thinking Hornby may offer a pre-grouping loco, but pre-grouping with a twist, in the early 1960's BR brought back several veterans,  the Jones 4-6-0 and Caley 123,  perhaps Hornby will bring back a retooled CR123 or launch a Jones Goods or a Gordon Highlander 4-4-0,  they could mix with BR Mark 1 coaches from their work on specials,  time for something a bit different!

I’d love it if you were right . The only issue I’ve got is that the 123 wasn’t typical Caley motive power . It’s fame came from the Races to the North . I’d rather have a Cardean or Dunalastair . 
 

More likely we will get Steampunk versions ! 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Legend

[Widnes Model Centre]

15 hours ago, PMP said:

That would be unlikely as the tier system was introduced a year after the centenary products were released.

Centenary 2020

Tiers           May 2021

 

Not quite, the Banding System was introduced in January 2021. Hornby were delighted to inform us that we were in Band B. No one outside of Hornby knew what that meant. Allocation of stock to retailers started in January 2020. We couldn't just order what we wanted, we were told what had been allocated to us. Seemed like a fairer system at the time....

[Mike_Walker]

9 minutes ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Not quite, the Banding System was introduced in January 2021. Hornby were delighted to inform us that we were in Band B. No one outside of Hornby knew what that meant. Allocation of stock to retailers started in January 2020. We couldn't just order what we wanted, we were told what had been allocated to us. Seemed like a fairer system at the time....

Depends on how much is allocated and to whom..

[Dunsignalling]

19 minutes ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Not quite, the Banding System was introduced in January 2021. Hornby were delighted to inform us that we were in Band B. No one outside of Hornby knew what that meant. Allocation of stock to retailers started in January 2020. We couldn't just order what we wanted, we were told what had been allocated to us. Seemed like a fairer system at the time....

But did they give you the option of deleting allocated stuff you didn't want?

 

It admittedly predated the current system, but my former supplier, who retired shortly after it came in, regularly used to grumble about large boxes full of unsolicited slow sellers (always geographically inappropriate) being delivered from Hornby.  Conversely, whenever they did produce something of local interest (we're pretty parochially SR & GWR round here), he never got more than 5% of what he ordered. I always suspected dealers in the North East had the same issues in reverse!

 

On the odd occasion when one of his customers did want an Eastern loco he was told they'd only take orders for multiples of four. His (predictable) response was, OK, don't bother, then. 

 

I always got the impression he'd have got a lot more job satisfaction if he hadn't had to deal with Hornby!

 

John   

Edited January 8, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Waverley47708]

So just looking for some clarity, when do I post my "Nothing for me this year comment on RMWEB, 0700 or 1000?"

 

And will Rapido now move to 0655?

[PMP]

26 minutes ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Not quite, the Banding System was introduced in January 2021. Hornby were delighted to inform us that we were in Band B. No one outside of Hornby knew what that meant. Allocation of stock to retailers started in January 2020. We couldn't just order what we wanted, we were told what had been allocated to us. Seemed like a fairer system at the time....

Read the original post.
 

The tier system came out a year after the centenary products were available for dealers to order.

 

Therefore the tier system of 2021, couldn’t have affected orders placed in January 2020 because it didn’t exist.
 

[PMP]

3 minutes ago, Waverley47708 said:

So just looking for some clarity, when do I post my "Nothing for me this year comment on RMWEB, 0700 or 1000?"

 

And will Rapido now move to 0655?

Post yours just after the post from the bloke that says his wallet is in the corner soiling itself. Hope that helps.

[Widnes Model Centre]

15 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

But did they give you the option of deleting allocated stuff you didn't want?

 

It admittedly predated the current system, but my former supplier, who retired shortly after it came in, regularly used to grumble about large boxes full of unsolicited slow sellers (always geographically inappropriate) being delivered from Hornby.  Conversely, whenever they did produce something of local interest (we're pretty parochially SR & GWR round here), he never got more than 5% of what he ordered. I always suspected dealers in the North East had the same issues in reverse!

 

On the odd occasion when one of his customers did want an Eastern loco he was told they'd only take orders for multiples of four. His (predictable) response was, OK, don't bother, then. 

 

I always got the impression he'd have got a lot more job satisfaction if he hadn't had to deal with Hornby!

 

John   

 

Hi John, yes we didn't have to take what was offered. There was a lot of swapping between reps who had been allocated regionally geographically less likely to sell items. The reps did their very best.

 

Have to be honest never been told we had to take quantities of any loco, although wagons, carriages etc do come in minimum order quantity.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

I meant the cams collectively including the avoider. Not sure I can post a screenshot of Railcams data but looking at Colton Junction as an example of the traffic flow (because there isn't anywhere I am aware of nearer York that covers everything that goes through the station and the avoider) and (during the day at least) there is far more passenger work than freight. Also bear in mind the avoider isn't used for most southbound freight.

The volume of freight traffic, and even more so the number of freight trains, passing through York has declined enormously over the years but that is generally true of the entire railway network.   Nowadays you need to be on particular routes,, or parts of routes, in order to see plenty of freight trains.

 

As far as York station is concerned the removal of the middle lines between what were platforms 8 and 9 plus the end of freight on the Scarborough line has almost totally removed the chances of seeing a freight train pass through York station on an ordinary working day.  Whereas in contrast I'm sufficiently advanced in years to easily recall seeing WDs passing through the station working coal trains on those very middle lines - and it doesn't feel as if it was all that long ago )although it obviously was).

[TomScrut]

1 minute ago, The Stationmaster said:

As far as York station is concerned the removal of the middle lines between what were platforms 8 and 9 plus the end of freight on the Scarborough line has almost totally removed the chances of seeing a freight train pass through York station on an ordinary working day.

 

They do go southbound through 3 on a daily basis as far as I am aware (as in probably 75% of daytime freight traffic), as I understand it it is less of a logistical issue running them through the station than having them cross the northbound lines to get onto the avoider. Northbound I don't think I have seen a freight train go through the station in years other than engineering trains going to Scarborough.

[The Stationmaster]

50 minutes ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Not quite, the Banding System was introduced in January 2021. Hornby were delighted to inform us that we were in Band B. No one outside of Hornby knew what that meant. Allocation of stock to retailers started in January 2020. We couldn't just order what we wanted, we were told what had been allocated to us. Seemed like a fairer system at the time....

Surely 'allocation' had been going on for years?  I can recall that when a certain large GWR tank engine first arrived retailers had their orders reduced by 'allocation' and that reduction was considerable.  My regular 'most local' retailer normally ordered 20, and sometimes more than 20 depending on additional customer pre-orders, of each loco Hornby announced (he had a number of regular R number copllectors in his customer base and they all took one of every new item in the catalogue).

 

But when the first of the GW large tanks arrived all he got was one - and that went to one of his R number collectors who bought everything Hornby.   Those of us who remained loyal to him with our pre-orders had to wait more than a year for our locos.   So 'allocation' or  'rationing' - depending on whichever term you choose - has been around for a long time with Hornby.

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

An imaginary heritage railway, on which the modeller also picked favourite vehicles to survive into the preservation era could have numerous practical advantages.

 

That's interesting, and a step beyond what I intend to do once I get my main layout sorted.

 

I plan on having some sort of heritage line on my layout to put models of stuff preserved in real life, but the idea of imagining that some stuff avoiding the chop to exist on said preserved line is interesting.

 

One line that would be quite an interesting one to model would be the DVLR. There isn't much track so doesn't have to be huge, 2 of their locos are in Hornbys range too and it is next to a farming museum, dual carriageway and auction site so plenty of modelling if one was that way inclined.

[No Decorum]

16 hours ago, Markwj said:

Hold the phone!

 

That reminds me of the old expression, “Tweaking the Lion’s tail.”

[Dunsignalling]

From another thread....

[Widnes Model Centre]

6 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Surely 'allocation' had been going on for years?  I can recall that when a certain large GWR tank engine first arrived retailers had their orders reduced by 'allocation' and that reduction was considerable.  My regular 'most local' retailer normally ordered 20, and sometimes more than 20 depending on additional customer pre-orders, of each loco Hornby announced (he had a number of regular R number copllectors in his customer base and they all took one of every new item in the catalogue).

 

But when the first of the GW large tanks arrived all he got was one - and that went to one of his R number collectors who bought everything Hornby.   Those of us who remained loyal to him with our pre-orders had to wait more than a year for our locos.   So 'allocation' or  'rationing' - depending on whichever term you choose - has been around for a long time with Hornby.

 

 

Quite right Mike. I think the original poster was referring to Centenary products. But I am sure he will corrct me if I am wrong.

In my view the Banding/Tiers started then. I had placed my order for Centenary Items within an hour of announcements, only for it to be rejected as some items hadn't been allocated to us.

[rembrow]

For me, I'm not really in the market for any Hornby items, having had to change my pre orders twice, due to their macho tactics with their retailer customers, they have seriously mucked me about, and I'm not sure that I will get some of my remaining orders due to being late to the table with my third retailer. The only thing that might change my mind, is if they announce a new tooling for the GWR/BR original Hall. The last iteration came out in tbe 'design clever' period and was of lower quality detail. Last year the similarly designed P2 from that period was announced as a retool to high detail standards, so they may be seeking to rectify the mistakes of the dc period. The Hall in the main range, only came out in one version- Rood Ashton.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by rembrow

[farren]

Sorry of topic slighty but still related. If I order X from Hornby the price stays the same even if X then has multiple price increases before release. Is it the same for retailers on their orders? 

[rovex]

3 minutes ago, farren said:

Sorry of topic slighty but still related. If I order X from Hornby the price stays the same even if X then has multiple price increases before release. Is it the same for retailers on their orders? 

I shouldn't worry about being off topic, no one else seems to be.

[PMP]

22 minutes ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

 

Quite right Mike. I think the original poster was referring to Centenary products. But I am sure he will corrct me if I am wrong.

In my view the Banding/Tiers started then. 

If you take time to read the thread it’s quite clear.

 

Hornby Tier systems came into place May 21.

Prior to that stock was allocated to dealers/wholesalers under Hornbys extant allocation procedures. It says that in their own press releases of the time.

 

Therefore a shop in 2020 couldn’t have been penalised by a tier system that didn’t exist. 

[ruggedpeak]

39 minutes ago, Kim Durose said:

How about a race to be best rather  than a race to be first?

Without getting into the whole strategy debate, a basic rule for business and elite sports is focus on your activity not worry about your competitors. Hornby do seem to be putting a lot of effort into reacting to others rather than getting a grip on some of the strategic and tactical issues in their business. Perhaps Monday will provide some clarity on their strategic direction but I am expecting more of the same, basically a lack of clarity and coherence for consumers in terms of product and business process (e.g. allocation to retailers). Basically if there is something I like will be able to guarantee I can get it if I pre-order via a retailer?

 

In the D&E area there are clear items that are not only screaming out to be made but offer numerous opportunities for repeat runs due to the range of liveries as others have said. MU's of all sorts are a good example, they are a growing part of the railway whether we like it or not (definitely not!!). Hornby's Class 67 is a great model and for a small and unloved class has a huge range of liveries, which Hornby do release, but other than 67 nutters like me the nature of that loco limits the scope of sales as on the real railway they are not ubiquitous like say the 66's or even 68's, unlike modern MU's which are everywhere.

 

Hopefully there will be some interesting stuff and retailers will be properly served.