RMweb Premium 3rd Rail Exile Posted December 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2015 well its done for cost saving as it is 2 left hand wiper arm assemblies, as the second mans side is not a reverse of the drivers side. i'd like to see you fit one with the pantograph that way on the real loco, the drive spindle is the wrong side Just to add to the confusion, refer back to the 2nd picture in post #625 of this thread - wipers completely opposite to the way they are on the model! Both towards the centre pillar is "normal" but as Pete 75C pointed out other configurations are clearly possible. A flick through a copy of "The Power of the Electro-Diesels" by CJ Marsden (OPC 1980) shows a variety of configurations... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted December 6, 2015 Tempfix Share Posted December 6, 2015 Similar conclusion looking through "The Electro-Diesels - An illustrated history of classes 73+74" also by CJ Marsden. Around 75% of pictures show wipers towards the centre, but the rest have them stopping anywhere. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47606odin Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Similar conclusion looking through "The Electro-Diesels - An illustrated history of classes 73+74" also by CJ Marsden. Around 75% of pictures show wipers towards the centre, but the rest have them stopping anywhere. yes, i am aware that the wiper can stop anywhere left to right, but both wiper assemblies are the same, whereas on the real loco they are handed. the pantograph arm sticks out towards the route indicator box from where the wiper blade fits. both on the model are to the left of the blade is what i am trying to get over. if you look at the JA on this page you can see the pantograph arms are reverse to each other http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/davidelement/railwaywebpage33eastleigh100.htm Edited December 6, 2015 by 47606odin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 3rd Rail Exile Posted December 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2015 yes, i am aware that the wiper can stop anywhere left to right, but both wiper assemblies are the same, whereas on the real loco they are handed. the pantograph arm sticks out towards the route indicator box from where the wiper blade fits. both on the model are to the left of the blade is what i am trying to get over. if you look at the JA on this page you can see the pantograph arms are reverse to each other http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/davidelement/railwaywebpage33eastleigh100.htm Wow - I bow down to your superior eyesight! With specs on and a magnifying glass I think I can see what you mean. I suppose having perhaps laser scanned an original with the wipers in this comparatively unusual configuration it was either a detail difference missed when the CADs were produced or (as you said earlier) a minor cost saving that they hoped they could get away with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2015 There are far more important things in life than a wrong-handed wiper arm. FFS - it's only a model train. Cheers, Mick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Glad I didn't pre order an inter city 73, I'll wait for next batch, I'll stick with large logo for the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I'm no expert on OO or class 73s but when people get to the stage of questioning errors in the windscreen wipers it rather suggests to me the rest of the model must be quite good. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted December 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2015 I actually think that some of the body side details are actually better on the Lima version. [Ducks below parapet] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2015 I actually think that some of the body side details are actually better on the Lima version. [Ducks below parapet] The Lima moulded grilles are very good. The A1 "replacement" etched grilles are quite poor by comparison. There are times when "etched for etched sake" isn't actually the best idea. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rover90 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Dapol have advised on their website of a potential issue with the headlight operation being reversed when operating in DCC. I've copied their advice below: We have found that on some OO Class 73 models, when used with DCC the locomotive headlights will operate in reverse. If you experience this, then we suggest you set CV 29 to an odd number i.e. Read CV 29, if even, then add 1 and re-program to that value. If the number is odd, then subtract 1 and re-program. Alternatively, if you feel unsure of performing this yourself please contact Dapol on sales@Dapol.co.uk or 01691 774455 and we will make arrangements to have the necessary adjustments made. To confirm, however, in DC operation the locomotive performs as it should do I had this situation on my Blue Large Logo one when I used a ESU V4.0 non sound chip. When I replaced that with a cheapo gaugemaster 21pin chip, the lights work in the correct fashion! Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 FFS - it's only a model train. Cheers, Mick Sorry Mick? Are you joking?!!!!!!!!!!!! It's only a model train?.........I think that you will find that these issues are actually very important and right up there with climate change! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Morning all I received my first of the long awaited models yesterday and whilst it is a great model of the prototype I can't help but be left disappointed by the colouring of the Inter-City livery. 73-2.jpg 73102 in all its glory but the livery just doesn't look right in my eyes. Just to compare. 47-73-1.jpg 47-73-3.jpg 73-47-4.jpg The 47 is a Heljan Galloway Princess that also was painted incorrectly in Black, but I have resprayed the upper body with Railmatch IC Executive grey which looks 'right' to me and has a brownish hue to it, and it also shows a difference in the lower colour too! Although the 47 has also been weathered a bit I think the difference is still obvious. Having spent so long getting this model to the shops, its a bit annoying that something as simple as a colour can't be got right. Not sure what I'm going to do, whether to respray the upper body again or just try weathering it and hope it looks better. Disappointed of Tidworth! I can see where you are coming from with regards to the livery colours Ian, but seeing your photos does make me think that Dapol have produced a nice model. And I am not an expert on 73s. Whilst frustrating for you, I know that you will correct the colour issue and have a lovely model running on Tidworth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted December 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) That IC livery is manifestly wrong. I'm not going to place my neck on a block and state that the 47 is right (though it appears spot on to my eyes) since livery shades vary and so does colour perception. But the 73 looks like a toy train against a good model railway locomotive. I'm with those who suggest the Lima grilles might be the better of the two as well and we don't really need to see the gubbins inside either although that appears to be an easy fix. Repainting a brand-new loco isn't so easy and for some of us isn't an option at all. Next query : a red buckeye? The green one illustrated above shows the drop-head rather well but I don't remember the coupler being painted. Indeed to paint it might be to invite problems as paint can enter moving parts, dry and jam them. They were always "grease-colour" to my memory though I will admit to not recalling sight of an ex-works 73 in green to be certain. I have an early blue (grey stripe) one coming; I was going to wait for report of their running but when that particular limited edition got down to a stock of only 9 left I figured it was now or never and I probably won't be disappointed. There's also a plain blue E6039 to come a little later. Edited December 6, 2015 by Gwiwer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted December 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2015 The Dapol version of IC reminds me of the very early one used on the 90's which was all white on the lower body too and the grey was very dark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 There are far more important things in life than a wrong-handed wiper arm. FFS - it's only a model train. Cheers, Mick If this is really the case then why should any of us bother discussing the details, defects or errors of any models whatsoever... after all, "they are only model trains"? Same with the livery errors - perhaps Dapol should have simply saved a lot of time, effort and possibly expense and approved the original samples with all the glaring errors, as after all, "they are only model trains". An insignificant error to some, but nevertheless arguably quite a noticeable feature of the prototype, but the wipers are indeed quite clearly wrong. If such things as wipers really do not matter, then why are outlets such as Shawplan etc out there creating etches of every conceivable variation available? Surely, one generic wiper should be okay for all classes, "they are only model trains" after all... There's an old saying, "If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right..." 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjf4375 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 The intercity model does look superb, although I agree that the lower body sides should be the warm 'biscuit' grey, and not bright white. It looks as though Dapol have got this livery confused with the later swallow type, which did have white in this area. It looks like quite an easy thing to fix though - a bit of careful masking and then whoft over with the correct colour - if you don't have an airbrush, I know that Halfords Ford 'Dove Grey' is a very good match for the intercity beige. Lovely model though, I hope you enjoy running it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) If this is really the case then why should any of us bother discussing the details, defects or errors of any models whatsoever... after all, "they are only model trains"? Same with the livery errors - perhaps Dapol should have simply saved a lot of time, effort and possibly expense and approved the original samples with all the glaring errors, as after all, "they are only model trains". An insignificant error to some, but nevertheless arguably quite a noticeable feature of the prototype, but the wipers are indeed quite clearly wrong. If such things as wipers really do not matter, then why are outlets such as Shawplan etc out there creating etches of every conceivable variation available? Surely, one generic wiper should be okay for all classes, "they are only model trains" after all... There's an old saying, "If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right..." I have no problem in people spotting errors - I'm glad that they do it. It's just that the poster seemed to go on about it as though it was matter of life and death. Cheers, Mick Edited December 7, 2015 by newbryford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissRailPassion Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Sounds like it looks good. Does it run well? That's the big test for me, as I had so many problems with their class 22 ( I sent three back ) that I gave up with it. At over £100 it should be a good runner. I hope the 73 is a success, and I'd be interested to hear how people are finding it. Christmas is coming...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Well... I couldn't keep the debit card contained any longer. It was burning a hole in my wallet, as they say. The last few pages of this thread have been very helpful though. Hopefully my Heljan Crompton should be here in a day or two. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Geep7 Posted December 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2015 Well... I couldn't keep the debit card contained any longer. It was burning a hole in my wallet, as they say. The last few pages of this thread have been very helpful though. Hopefully my Heljan Crompton should be here in a day or two. This is similar to my situation. I already have 3 Lima 73's which won't take much to detail them up a bit. The problem I have is the 3 Lima Class 33's I have. One is halfway through being detailed as a 33/1... Trouble is, the Lima 33 is, let's be honest, awful, and i'm pretty much gilding a pigs ear. With Craftsman seemingly having gone the way of the dodo, the other 33's may as well be given to my 4 yr old son to wreck on his train set. So unfortunately for Dapol, as nice as this new model is (even with the errors), i'll save my money for a couple of Heljan 33's instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slg Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Not the first manufacturer to get the mainline intercity livery wrong, remember 37431 from Bachmann or 08673 from Hornby both these turned up in the IC swallow livery and neither manufacturer did anything to correct their errors. To this day only Heljan have ever replaced bodies when they got it wrong but had already released the model to shops & Bachmann ended up selling bodies of 47835 "Windsor Castle" to some shops, they still come up on ebay occasionally As for the 73 if you look back at the sample livery picture they had the right lower body colour on it, so they can get the colours right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Temeraire Posted December 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) As for the 73 if you look back at the sample livery picture they had the right lower body colour on it, so they can get the colours right. Thats the picture that convinced me to place the order once I'd seen the livery wasn't the Gatwick version. Just a shame they didn't get them right when it mattered most! Just noticed that this one has the cantrail stripe too which is missing from the one I received! Edited December 7, 2015 by Temeraire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted December 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2015 Looks like a livery mix up. There was a time where the lower band was white (see http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/gatex_02.html, 5th pic down from 1999), but by that time the wrap-around yellow ends had gone and the locos carried Gatwick Express branding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Geep7 Posted December 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Perhaps this livery mistake with the IC version is in commemoration of the Green Lima 73, which had a green lower stripe rather than rail grey? Edited December 7, 2015 by Geep7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47606odin Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I have no problem in people spotting errors - I'm glad that they do it. It's just that the poster seemed to go on about it as though it was matter of life and death. Cheers, Mick so now you are glad i bought up the error. well i bought it up, people said the item was not incorrect, i just demonstrated what the issue was so there was clear understanding. not life and death never was. this loco is an improvement, greatly over the lima loco, but for a few little things that the company got wrong, be it not spotted, or a means to save 5p in production costs, has made a fantastic loco, just a very good loco. it is all in the detail at the end of the day, like battery box safety latches on the pre TOPS locos and exhaust covers on the JA's, without them the locos would be fantastic. easily identifiable niggles that needn't be there i have bought a loco, but wish i didn't have to sort out the obvious detail faux pas, there may be other not so obvious ones, but if i don't see it, then theres no problem. you may be pleased that i will no longer be mentioning detail issues with the models, but having lived with ED's, worked with ED's and part own an ED, my constructive criticism is all that it was. constructive criticism. use it or not, its up to you 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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