Wright writes.....

[geoff west]

I have come to the conclusion that the inherent value of my rolling stock is rather less than I paid for it, whether I fiddle about with it or not. Trading stuff in would typically give you between 25-35% of its retail price, even relatively new stuff. If you regard your RTR stuff as only having its second hand value, the psychological barrier to modifying it is so much easier to overcome.

 

When I buy RTR stuff, with the odd, very rare exception, I would be a muppet if I ever saw it as a financial investment. It is an investment in my model railway hobby, the value of which I regard as being personal rather than monetary.

 

So, if I want to modify RTR products to improve the character of my personal model railway, it is an easy choice. If it means that its resale value diminishes by 10 or even 20%, it is no big deal. I’ll probably be dead when most of it comes to be sold on, anyway!

 

Phil.

 

I remember being told by my local model shop proprietor that if you halve the price, then do the same again then that's what you can expect to get for second hand items.

[john new]

Just in case you are not familiar with Tony's videos I will link here again ... apologies if this is all familiar to you - I still re-watch them.

 

Thank you, I wasn't aware but equally hadn't looked.

[Bernard Lamb]

I have come to the conclusion that the inherent value of my rolling stock is rather less than I paid for it, whether I fiddle about with it or not. Trading stuff in would typically give you between 25-35% of its retail price, even relatively new stuff. If you regard your RTR stuff as only having its second hand value, the psychological barrier to modifying it is so much easier to overcome.

 

When I buy RTR stuff, with the odd, very rare exception, I would be a muppet if I ever saw it as a financial investment. It is an investment in my model railway hobby, the value of which I regard as being personal rather than monetary.

 

So, if I want to modify RTR products to improve the character of my personal model railway, it is an easy choice. If it means that its resale value diminishes by 10 or even 20%, it is no big deal. I’ll probably be dead when most of it comes to be sold on, anyway!

 

Phil.

 

Why stop there?

When I purchase an item for my hobbies, be it railway modelling or cycling, I regard it as a consumable. It is after all bought out of my disposable income and nobody in the family is going short of any essential items because of my purchase.  Any potential resale value is of no importance. I find the whole idea of collecting mass produced items rather an odd idea. Guilt about the amount spent when it cannot be realistically afforded? In some cases I think so. A justification for the amount spent? Again in some cases a probable explanation. Some posts on the new items threads I find to be real eye openers as to the specific requirements of a good number of people. The "I want **** in **** condition" type of thing. Also the idea as put forward in one thread of repairing a 30+ year old RTR model is beyond my imagination. Especially so as a far more detailed modern version is available. Bin it and if you don't have the cash start saving.

Bernard (running to get my tin hat)

[Clive Mortimore]

I remember being told by my local model shop proprietor that if you halve the price, then do the same again then that's what you can expect to get for second hand items.

Hi Geoff

 

That was the method we use to use when I worked in a model railway shop.

 

Trouble today people want from their local shop the same amount they see things going for on E-Bay, they forget the shop keeper might have the thing hanging around for yonks, not making money and they have the overheads of a building to house the model in. And most are in a poor state when they arrive and at least need their motors oiled and wheels cleaned before putting on the shelf, who pays the shop keeper for that.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Mallard60022]

I think there's another reason for some folks not wanting to do modelling and cock it up and it's a steadily rising "disease" IMO.

 

Fear of failure.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Almost totally agree there Mick. Only rider I would add is that if one is going to be paying around £200 for a loco kit and the other parts required to complete as they say,then maybe a little shiver of worry about coc%ing things up might be just be present? Understandable?

Otherwise, dealing with (say) a basic wagon or van kit at about £10 (or less),the fear off failure should be far less, even for the event of a complete disaster! Disappointing but maybe not so disheartening?  Some folk just need to start with some really clear advice and encouragement to work on an enjoyable but straightforward modelling task and many of us could be more available to provide support, if it is accepted of course! 

Mick, I think that this fear of failure in a younger generation is an unfortunate side effect of an education system and maybe even parenting, that seems to resist allowing people to 'fail' and then deal with that failure in a positive way. Maybe a controversial comment, however I do see this "I can not be wrong/must be right" attitude all around these days.

Phil

[Northmoor]

Its odd isn't it .... because we will happily buy a car and write off exorbitant sums of money!

Agreed, also with Andy; sadly though, this British Disease has also returned to the classic car movement. 

 

It is no longer the preserve of people who spend their weekends in draughty garages restoring a car from their youth, with the full expectation that spending £3000 on renovation will increase the car's value by no more than £1000.  They restore these cars for their own enjoyment.  The 1980s are no repeating themselves (many of those economic "expert" commentators who insist it's different this time are too young to remember it) and old cars have become just another asset class to be inflated.

 

I find it very sad that people would buy models, never to even admire them on a diorama, let alone run them.  They know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

[grahame]

 

Judging by what Headstock (Andrew) tells us, might it be that by far the largest numbers in the hobby are just happy enough to buy this or that loco/stock RTR or building RTP? If many don't have layouts, then their purchases either remain in their boxes or are on static display. 

 

 

I don't think those that are unhappy about loco identities are mostly collectors. Collectors tend to be happy about whatever is in the box - they don't mind the number on its side - just so long as it is pristine. Many moaners, 'wish-listers' and those unhappy with the number/livery presumably run their purchases because they are on modelling forums (not collectors forums) and also moan about things like poor haulage performance, the tendency to fall off the track on tight set-track bends and details that break-off when handled. And I've heard that often those without a layout still test run their purchase on a temporary set-up test circle of track or on a club layout.

 

G.

[micklner]

Hmmm, then why are there so many 'wish list' threads and moans about manufacturers not making the particular loco (number, name, livery, etc) that is wanted? 

 

G.

 

Easy, the only ones who moan are those who actually want them, but can't be bothered to do something about it  !!!. Presumably everyone is very happy with them as they come or are  blissfully unaware !!

 

 

Edit

 

Nearly forgot the other option 

 

They are not happy unless they are moaning anytime night or day !!!

Edited January 20, 2019 by micklner

[newbryford]

Easy, the only ones who moan are those who actually want them, but can't be bothered to do something about it  !!!. Presumably everyone is very happy with them as they come or are  blissfully unaware !!

 

 I moan when they bring out one that I've done a renumber to.........................

 

A couple of months ago I discovered that GBRailfreight have named a Class 66 "Sarah" (daughter's name). I was looking into a repaint/renumber of one of my "spare" 66s to do the same, then I discovered that Hattons have it on their release list.

I will wait.

 

(And repaint the 66 into something else)

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited January 20, 2019 by newbryford

[Andy Hayter]

Its odd isn't it .... because we will happily buy a car and write off exorbitant sums of money!

 

I must confess that when I was posting I was thinking more in terms of the latest electronic gizmo from Son-ple-sung, but you are right, we seem quite happy to throw 25% of our investment away by signing the purchase documents on our car.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Andy Hayter

[Lecorbusier]

Agreed, also with Andy; sadly though, this British Disease has also returned to the classic car movement. 

 

It is no longer the preserve of people who spend their weekends in draughty garages restoring a car from their youth, with the full expectation that spending £3000 on renovation will increase the car's value by no more than £1000.  They restore these cars for their own enjoyment.  The 1980s are no repeating themselves (many of those economic "expert" commentators who insist it's different this time are too young to remember it) and old cars have become just another asset class to be inflated.

 

I find it very sad that people would buy models, never to even admire them on a diorama, let alone run them.  They know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Recently rebuilt the engine on my 1971 VW Bus .... moving on to the interior now .... couldn't give a monkeys what its re-sale value is (apart for insurance purposes) - but then I like kit building trains and rolling stock ... QED!

[Clive Mortimore]

 I moan when they bring out one that I've done a renumber to.........................

 

A couple of months ago I discovered that GBRailfreight have named a Class 66 "Sarah" (daughter's name). I was looking into a repaint/renumber to do the same, then I discovered that Hattons have it on their release list.

I will wait.

 

(And repaint the 66 into something else)

 

Cheers,

Mick

Hi Mick

 

What is even more annoying is when you make a renumbering duplication mistake, without any help form a manufacturer. I repainted a Brush type 4 (class 47 for our younger readers) and gave it a suitable number D1521. A few months later I was getting my locos ready, Hanging Hill was off to a show. Packing the Brush type 4s in a Brush type 4 size box and I looked at an older repaint I had done, D1521. One of them stayed at home. I still haven't renumbered one of them.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Its odd isn't it .... because we will happily buy a car and write off exorbitant sums of money!

 

 

I must confess that when I was posting I was thinking more in terms of the latest electronic gizmo from Son-ple-sung, but you are right, we seem quite happy to throw 25% of our investment away by signing the purchase documents on our car.

 

New cars, like the latest electronics products, enable the owner/buyer/user to show their friends and the general public how clever/well off/important they are (or so they believe). Model railway items fall into the same category for some as collecting porcelain, glass, etc. It isn't on public display but satisfies their desire to own things of "value". Unfortunately model railway items by Hornby and Bachmann doesn't have quite the same kudos as Lalique glass, Wedgwood china, Phillipe Patek watches, etc.

[APOLLO]

One good thing about American Railroads is that a modeller can get away with murder - like the real railroads almost anything goes.

 

The Rock Island railroad (mighty fine line it was - NOT !!) bought some secondhand F9's off the Union Pacific. They just renumbered and painted over the UP heralds on the sides - a quick splosh job !!

 

 

I bought a(nother) Atlas O F9 quite cheaply on Ebay. These are nice locos, central can motor & 8 wheel drive.

 

 

Weathered up, splosh lower body repaint couple of heralds and she is in service.

 

 

Must add some grab irons, windscreen wipers and a bit more grot !!

 

As others write, I also am a bit reluctant to weather / renumber some of my more expensive locomotives. Even in the USA there were / are SOME clean locomotives !!

 

Here are two other Atlas F('s I repainted quite a number of years ago. The Rock Island maroon one is finished in LMS crimson lake and lettered with letraset rub on letters, The Southern Pacific one was lettered with Champ decals, quite easy in O scale - not too fiddly. The masking for the red front was a touch tricky though

 

 

These are Atlas cheapies,a box car and caboose.The box car was "decalled" with home printed paper labels glued on, then weathered. No repaint required. The caboose was repainted (again LMS crimson lake) with white ends and again letraset lettering. I used an air brush for the repaints.

 

 

This is as bought - a recent Atlas model - I've not a cat in hells chance of replicating this. I dare not weather it (too nice !!) - it will stay as is.

 

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

 

[micknich2003]

I 'ruined' nearly all the locos I was given as a boy by repainting and renumbering them, I made loads of mistakes but that is how I learnt. Forty years on I'm still making mistakes but who cares, this is my hobby and I get enormous pleasure from it.

 

After a period working on the scenics, my small EM test piece is operational again, despite the freezing temperature in the garage I had enormous pleasure shunting a few wagons this afternoon. Everything on the layout has been built or adapted by me.

 

Martyn

 

Dontworry, sixty years plus I still make mistakes and I don't always get it right first time.

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

I do remember, many years ago, when Tri-Ang/Hornby bought out there brand new Black Five, someone wrote in one of the model rail mags, that he wouldn't be buying it, as good as it was, because it had the wrong number, he wanted 4xxxx, and would wait until they did, I always thought this was an extreme view, even if Tri-Ang/Hornby changed the number twice a year, it would take over 400 years to 'do' them all....................!

 

manna

[St Enodoc]

Other kit manufacturers are available but the law of libel applies.

 

 

Jamie

I thought that truth was a defence?

[St Enodoc]

It used to be so easy, back in the day when Bachmann transfers would come off by gently rubbing them with a cotton bud soaked in enamel thinners. These days a different printing process seems to be in use, which means 'something stronger' is required, which might be T-Cut (I have used that, if I recall correctly) or scraping with a scalpel, which in some ways seems a little 'harsh' to me, as I'd prefer a 'chemical'-based process, albeit one which avoids damaging the paintwork underneath.

 

Mind you, I recall weathering some Bachmann Mark 1 coaches years ago, when the older type of transfers were on them. The process involved removing most of the weathering 'solution' (much-thinned enamel-based weathering mix) with dampened cotton buds and I had to be very careful not to lose the lining in the process!

T-Cut is good. I use a cocktail stick, trimmed to a chisel shape, rather than the oft-recommended cotton bud, as it gives me better visibility and control over where the T-Cut is going.

[St Enodoc]

I did the same with another Tri-ang 2-6-2T and Kitmaster 2-6-0, Andy. 

 

The hardest part was hack-sawing off the big plate at the rear of the Tri-ang chassis. That and then drilling holes in it for fixing the 2-6-0's cab to it. My brother might still have it (after over 55 years). I'll ask him. 

 

That got covered in blood as well! 

 

Other dreadful conversions consisted of making a Jubilee from a Tri-ang Princess and motorising some Kitmaster 2-6-2Ts using RTR mechanisms. It's a good job I heal up quickly!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Many years ago a friend made some Jubilees by converting Tri-Ang Albert Halls.

[Enterprisingwestern]

T-Cut is good. I use a cocktail stick, trimmed to a chisel shape, rather than the oft-recommended cotton bud, as it gives me better visibility and control over where the T-Cut is going.

 

Cocktail sticks are too soft and disintegrate too easily, try bamboo barbecue skewers, they can be be cut into far more intricate shapes and being a harder wood will hold that shape.

 

Mike.

[St Enodoc]

Cocktail sticks are too soft and disintegrate too easily, try bamboo barbecue skewers, they can be be cut into far more intricate shapes and being a harder wood will hold that shape.

 

Mike.

I guess that depends on the cocktail stick. The ones I use are fine. They don't split or fray. I think that I would find skewers too large in diameter. As far as shape is concerned, I've never worried about intricacy. I slice the stick at a shallow angle then trim the end back leaving a blunt segment about 2mm wide. Works for me.

[31A]

Regarding re-numbering and altering livery details, I was recently playing around with (yet another) second hand Hornby A3; changing 60035 "Windsor Lad" to 60039 "Sandwich".  In order to match the pictures I had of 60039 and match the details re. boiler, tender, AWS fitment etc. meant altering the BR device on the tender from first type to second type.  No matter what I did, the printed device on the tender was a pig to get off, seeming impervious to T-Cut, acrylic paint thinners, white spirit, Sharpie pen ink, and in fact eventually I'd used so much T-Cut that I'd gone through the green paint and revealed the black plastic beneath!  It was particularly the yellow printed parts that were problematic so before I'd got rid of them I'd gone beyond the point of no return so to speak by removing the other colours.  In the end I resorted to using a scalpel blade which is something I don't usually do as it risks damaging the surface of the plastic.  As a result, when it came to the cab side numbers I cheated and only removed the 5 to replace it with a Methfix 9.  Consequently 60039 has ended up rather dirtier than I at first intended, hopefully to disguise the black patches on the tender!

 

I think 60035 might have been one of the earliest Hornby A3s produced, and being always a Scottish engine probably why I'd never bought it earlier.

 

In contrast, I recently renumbered an L1 and the numbers came off easily, using Sharpie marker pen ink.

 

The results of my attention to the A3 can be seen in my recent post in "How Realistic are your Models", and also my "Train Spotting at Finsbury Square" threads.

[Hollar]

G'Day Folks

 

I do remember, many years ago, when Tri-Ang/Hornby bought out there brand new Black Five, someone wrote in one of the model rail mags, that he wouldn't be buying it, as good as it was, because it had the wrong number, he wanted 4xxxx, and would wait until they did, I always thought this was an extreme view, even if Tri-Ang/Hornby changed the number twice a year, it would take over 400 years to 'do' them all....................!

 

manna

I had a similar experience as a visitor at a local club, there to see whether I should break the habit of a lifetime and join up.The conversation at the bar got onto the Accurascale hoppers, and what great models they are.  To loud murmurs of agreement someone said that what was really great about them was the huge range of numbers being introduced, which meant that he didn't have t wait for years until he had enough different ones to make a proper train.  When I countered that it's easy enough to get some variety (by using t-cut or similar and commercial transfers they, to quote Alice's Restaurant, all went quiet and moved away from me on the bench there.  After reading this thread, I think the speaker probably worried about damaging the resale value of his investment.  And holding onto the good parts at least he wasn't happily running a train of identically-numbered wagons. 

 

It's a broad hobby and there is no place here for a moral judgement, but I was happy to go home to the peaceful ruination of another perfectly good kit, as I teach myself to use the airbrush.

 

Tone

[grahame]

The Berlin wall might have come down, but my wall is slowly going up.

 

The upper three blind arch sections of the train-shed wall are resin castings from a home-made master/mould. Likewise the lower three arch viaduct sections. The others (the plainer two and road arch) were simply knocked up from mountboard card and brick embossed plasticard. Basically it is all scratch-built (and in N/2mm scale). It's probably not obvious from the pic below but the last section is at an angle to the others and the wall will continue in that plane:

 

 

G

 

 

 

[queensquare]

I had a similar experience as a visitor at a local club, there to see whether I should break the habit of a lifetime and join up.The conversation at the bar got onto the Accurascale hoppers, and what great models they are.  To loud murmurs of agreement someone said that what was really great about them was the huge range of numbers being introduced, which meant that he didn't have t wait for years until he had enough different ones to make a proper train.  When I countered that it's easy enough to get some variety (by using t-cut or similar and commercial transfers they, to quote Alice's Restaurant, all went quiet and moved away from me on the bench there.  After reading this thread, I think the speaker probably worried about damaging the resale value of his investment.  And holding onto the good parts at least he wasn't happily running a train of identically-numbered wagons. 

 

It's a broad hobby and there is no place here for a moral judgement, but I was happy to go home to the peaceful ruination of another perfectly good kit, as I teach myself to use the airbrush.

 

Tone

 

Fully agree with you but more importantly would like to congratulate you on what I think must be the first Alice's Restaurant quote I've seen on RMWeb. As you know, you can get anything you want......excepting Alice! 

 

Jerry