Project 43 - The North British B-B Warships

[Enterprisingwestern]

Another one.

 

 

Mike.

 

Edit for details.

 

Newton Abbot shed.

10.6.70.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Enterprisingwestern

[brushman47544]

Another one.

 

image1-1.jpg

 

Mike.

 

Good grief - the numbering/livery in BR blue is a minefield too. How many others were like this, with later style BR numbers and the D and two cabside BR arrows? Most photos I've seen in this livery have serif style letters (D827 Kelly comes to mind).

[Rugd1022]

Good grief - the numbering/livery in BR blue is a minefield too. How many others were like this, with later style BR numbers and the D and two cabside BR arrows? Most photos I've seen in this livery have serif style letters (D827 Kelly comes to mind).

 

It's all in 'The Book Of The Warships' Andrew and some of them went through both versions of blue - as per D827 just as you mention, and as per the photo of D860 above. In simple terms, the D827 style was done in 1967 and the D860 style in 1968 with the added caviat that some had the D removed as well, and there was the later much tidier final version of blue from the 1969 to 1971 period with a single arrow below the nameplate etc, plus there were D830, D831, D846, D847 and D864 which carried their own distinctive early versions of blue for a while. Here's a quick summary of the blue liveries...

 

1 = 1967 style, 2 = 1968 style, 3 = 1969 onwards style :

 

802 - 1 & 2

803 - 1 & 2

804 - 1

805 - 3

806 - 3

807 - 1 & 3

808 - 2 & 3

810 - 3

811 - 3

812 - 3

813 - 1 & 3

814 - 1 & 3

816 - 1 & 3

818 - 1 & 3

819 - 1 & 2

820 - 1, 2 & 3

821 - 2 & 3

822 - 2

823 - 3

824 - 3

825 - 2

826 - 2 & 3 (repainted blue in 1971 but using old style serif numbers)

827 - 1 & 3

828 - 3

830 - blue + SYP for a few months in 1967 then full yellow ends applied that August, with an early withdrawl in March 1969

831 - blue + SYP then style 3 in 1969

832 - 3

833 - 3

834 - 3

835 - 2 & 3

836 - 2

837 - 2

839 - 3

841 - 1 & 3

842 - 3

843 - 2 & 3

844 - 3

845 - 3

846 - 1967 early version of BFYE with small arrow above nameplate and serif numbers on cabs, plus style 3 for a very brief period

847 - 1967 early version of BFYE wit hsmall arrow above nameplate and serif numbers on cabs

849 - 1 & 2

850 - 2

851 - 2

852 - 3

853 - 1 & 3

854 - 3

855 - 3

856 - 2

857 - 1 & 3

858 - 3

859 - 1

860 - 2

861 - 3

862 - 3

863 - 1

864 - 1966 version of BFYE with serif numbers below engine room windows and arrows on cabs, then collision damage repairs in early 1967 resulting in serif numbers and arrows on the cabs, plus a brown ('burnt umber') skirt area throughout it's time in blue

865 - 3

866 - 2

867 - 3

868 - 1, then repainted at Laira in 1971 into style 3 but with serif style numbers

869 - 3

870 - 3

 

I think that's it...!

Edited March 26, 2013 by Rugd1022

[Enterprisingwestern]

It's all in 'The Book Of The Warships' Andrew and some of them went through both versions of blue - as per D827 just as you mention, and as per the photo of D860 above. In simple terms, the D827 style was done in 1967 and the D860 style in 1968 with the added caviat that some had the D removed as well, and there was the later much tidier final version of blue from the 1969 to 1971 period with a single arrow below the nameplate etc, plus there were D830, D831, D846, D847 and D864 which carried their own distinctive early versions of blue for a while. Here's a quick summary of the blue liveries...

 

1 = 1967 style, 2 = 1968 style, 3 = 1969 onwards style :

 

802 - 1 & 2

803 - 1 & 2

804 - 1

805 - 3

806 - 3

807 - 1 & 3

808 - 2 & 3

810 - 3

811 - 3

812 - 3

813 - 1 & 3

814 - 1 & 3

816 - 1 & 3

818 - 1 & 3

819 - 1 & 2

820 - 1, 2 & 3

821 - 2 & 3

822 - 2

823 - 3

824 - 3

825 - 2

826 - 2 & 3 (repainted blue in 1971 but using old style serif numbers)

827 - 1 & 3

828 - 3

830 - blue + SYP for a few months in 1967 then full yellow ends applied that August, with an early withdrawl in March 1969

831 - blue + SYP then style 3 in 1969

832 - 3

833 - 3

834 - 3

835 - 2 & 3

836 - 2

837 - 2

839 - 3

841 - 1 & 3

842 - 3

843 - 2 & 3

844 - 3

845 - 3

846 - 1967 early version of BFYE with small arrow above nameplate and serif numbers on cabs, plus style 3 for a very brief period

847 - 1967 early version of BFYE wit hsmall arrow above nameplate and serif numbers on cabs

849 - 1 & 2

850 - 2

851 - 2

852 - 3

853 - 1 & 3

854 - 3

855 - 3

856 - 2

857 - 1 & 3

858 - 3

859 - 1

860 - 2

861 - 3

862 - 3

863 - 1

864 - 1966 version of BFYE with serif numbers below engine room windows and arrows on cabs, then collision damage repairs in early 1967 resulting in serif numbers and arrows on the cabs, plus a brown ('burnt umber') skirt area throughout it's time in blue

865 - 3

866 - 2

867 - 3

868 - 1, then repainted at Laira in 1971 into style 3 but with serif style numbers

869 - 3

870 - 3

 

I think that's it...!

 

Do you want which ones did or didn't have D's in 1970?, assiduously noted!

Only the ones I saw obviously.

 

Mike.

[D1072]

Another blue one to add:

829 - 3 from Oct 69

 

The "Book of the Warships" also describes numerous minor detail differences including handrail lengths.

 

Regarding the "weld line" just above the sandbox covers, mentioned earlier:   If you have a copy of "Diesel Hydraulic Locomotives of the Western Region", the photo on p46 of a D800 under construction at Swindon shows this line to be where the side sheet comes to an end as it meets the frame structure.   NBL built locos 835-865 do not seem to have been built with this line, presumably because, after building 834, NBL decided to use a longer piece of sheet metal - perhaps it was easier to acheive a clean join at the bottom of the bodyside.

Also, note how the line which continues from under the headcode boxes continues round the corner of the nose of a Class 42, with a small step down.   On most 43s. this horizontal line terminates above the outside edge of the buffer; the cab bottom corner is smooth, and does not have a step caused by an overlapping sheet of metal like a 42.

 

However... looking through "Book of the Warships":

835 - in blue may have a line (photo is not clear enough)

842 in Maroon FYE, Oct 69 - a line is present.   It had collision damage work in Oct 66 and major work in Spring 68

853 in blue has the line (maybe post Sep 67, Didcot derailment repairs)

854 in blue - no sign of a line on the cabs, but split between the cab doors.

857 in blue - no line amidships, but DOES have on its cabs.   Book lists "intermediate body overhaul" ending 22/9/65 after which it was in Maroon, so maybe Swindon reskinned its cabs.

 

So if you want to model 834, or one of these, a Mainline/Bachmann body is OK

Hopefully, Bachmann will produce a version with no "line"/ step in the bodywork (and avoid these number/livery combinations).

[ThaneofFife]

I thought the title referred to a new HST power car at first 

[Phil Bullock]

I thought the title referred to a new HST power car at first 

 

Nooooooo - this is a proper engine!    

[Rugd1022]

Another blue one to add:

829 - 3 from Oct 69

 

The "Book of the Warships" also describes numerous minor detail differences including handrail lengths.

 

Regarding the "weld line" just above the sandbox covers, mentioned earlier:   If you have a copy of "Diesel Hydraulic Locomotives of the Western Region", the photo on p46 of a D800 under construction at Swindon shows this line to be where the side sheet comes to an end as it meets the frame structure.   NBL built locos 835-865 do not seem to have been built with this line, presumably because, after building 834, NBL decided to use a longer piece of sheet metal - perhaps it was easier to acheive a clean join at the bottom of the bodyside.

Also, note how the line which continues from under the headcode boxes continues round the corner of the nose of a Class 42, with a small step down.   On most 43s. this horizontal line terminates above the outside edge of the buffer; the cab bottom corner is smooth, and does not have a step caused by an overlapping sheet of metal like a 42.

 

However... looking through "Book of the Warships":

835 - in blue may have a line (photo is not clear enough)

842 in Maroon FYE, Oct 69 - a line is present.   It had collision damage work in Oct 66 and major work in Spring 68

853 in blue has the line (maybe post Sep 67, Didcot derailment repairs)

854 in blue - no sign of a line on the cabs, but split between the cab doors.

857 in blue - no line amidships, but DOES have on its cabs.   Book lists "intermediate body overhaul" ending 22/9/65 after which it was in Maroon, so maybe Swindon reskinned its cabs.

 

So if you want to model 834, or one of these, a Mainline/Bachmann body is OK

Hopefully, Bachmann will produce a version with no "line"/ step in the bodywork (and avoid these number/livery combinations).

 

Oops - how did I miss out 829...? Wrist duly slapped

 

I don't know what Bachmann are going to do about the weld line on their 43, but I think it would surfice if they didn't model it as being too prominent. On the current tooling for the 42 it is quite noticable though.  

[cctransuk]

I thought the title referred to a new HST power car at first 

My point (elsewhere) precisely!

 

'Nuff said!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Compbck]

Now that the world of model locomotive sound is beginning to open up big time, I do hope that Bachmann include some consideration for those of us who wish to fit sound, but without the need to cut or file away bits of the bodywork just to get a speaker installed.

 

I am currently in the middle of fitting sound to all my loco fleet both steam and diesel, and it would be nice to be able to fit sound to a new model straight out of the box for a change.

 

In saying that, I do love a decoder fitting challenge, which I suppose is all part of the learning curve.

[Southernman46]

Another one.

 

image1-1.jpg

 

Mike.

 

Edit for details.

 

Newton Abbot shed.

10.6.70.

Wagon buffs note the steel bodied 13t open with a wooden door in service also........................

[The Black Hat]

I thought the title referred to a new HST power car at first 

 

Not the only one.... I know Bachmann's not making one but seeing the thread still makes me think twice.

[Removed a/c]

Not the only one.... I know Bachmann's not making one but seeing the thread still makes me think twice.

We can but dream and maybe throw in an APT for good measure. 

Edited August 21, 2013 by thebritfarmer

[Phil Bullock]

Delivery must be getting closer

 

Time to up the froth levels....

 

http://www.miac.org.uk/class42.html#brd833

 

 

Phil

[Pixie]

Lovely find Phil!

 

833 was a bit of an oddity, an NBL machine with Swindon fan grilles.

 

Pix

Edited December 27, 2013 by Pixie

[Phil Bullock]

Now theres a first for me!

 

A class 43 warship with a buffer beam skirt mounted shed plate....

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68861278@N03/10958523843/in/photostream/

 

Phil

[Phil Bullock]

We now know the financial implications - price for this long waited loco is now published on the Bachmann web site

 

£134.95     

 

That makes it by a long way the most expensive Bacchy diesel - if they do a sound fitted version, based on the Class 40 differential of £130 that will come in at £250 plus.

 

Anyone fancy all 33?

 

It will be interesting to see what we are going to get for this large heap of Wonga - must be completely re-tooled loco and chassis surely? The latter seems surprising perhaps given that the 42 chassis is a straight drop in although no speaker recess I guess. And may be those opening roof hatches????

 

The price is also a huge differential to that which the box shifters were advertising at prior to Bacchy's price restructuring - £76 from Rails for instance - so will be interesting to see if the pre order price policy holds

 

A view of sample eagerly awaited - am aware that a lot of work has gone in to the model by cognoscenti so hopefully this warship will still float our collective boats.

 

Phil

[Gwiwer]

We are all now aware of the new regime on Bachmann pricing.

 

What we should have here is an all-new locomotive built from scratch and improved from all previous class 42 offerings.  The tool for those (assuming it's still the Mainline one) has come a long way and has certainly returned on the investment made years ago and that in turn has no doubt been reflected in the artificially low price recent releases of the 42 have been offered at.

 

The 43 requires different mouldings and Bachmann has also raised the bar over the years in terms of production quality.  As such I can't see them getting away with a re-hash of the 42 tool.  I'm sure I've seen "New tool" attached to some of the class 43 pre-order links around the traps.

 

I do sincerely hope they don't repeat the brilliant white lighting fitted to the very recent 42s which is woefully inaccurate.  It resembles several neon strips being used to illuminate the headcode and cab and a spotlight for the marker.  In fact the cab light should be turned off when the loco is in motion while both headcode and marker lights were dim yellowish incandescent bulbs.

 

As to honouring the pre-order price that might depend on your retailer.  I have two ordered.  I'll wait and see if I am advised of any change to the price quoted when ordered.

[brushman47544]

We now know the financial implications - price for this long waited loco is now published on the Bachmann web site

 

£134.95     

 

That makes it by a long way the most expensive Bacchy diesel - if they do a sound fitted version, based on the Class 40 differential of £130 that will come in at £250 plus.

 

[snip]

 

The price is also a huge differential to that which the box shifters were advertising at prior to Bacchy's price restructuring - £76 from Rails for instance - so will be interesting to see if the pre order price policy holds

 

Since we'll almost certainly not see the production version until next year and probably after the 2015/16 catalogue is launched in the Spring as usual, can we not expect a further price rise before release? After all, Bachmann traditionally increases its prices year on year and has indicated another big jump next year because of the enforced salary increases in China.

 

At this price, or higher, the Class 43 will really need to be a huge leap forward compared to the current Class 42 (I already have three).

[TrevorP1]

Very much looking forward to seeing the NBL built Warship but I think I'll wait for some samples before pre-ordering. If the model is right, the wallet will open but at £130+ it's going to have to be better that the Dapol Western...

[rembrow]

It's telling that the new rrp for the Bachmann NBL Class 43 Warship is now higher than the current advertised price for the proposed Kernow NBL A1A pilot scheme Warships and they are a limited volume production. I must say that I always thought that the original rrp was low for a new tooling diesel model as the price was on par with the old Mainline tooled Class 42. I wonder if part of this large price increase has been due to an original error in the valuation.

[Downendian]

Preorder price at Hattons £76.46 - cheaper than the forthcoming class 42 release D810 at £80.

I reckon this is still a bargain, and get them in before the preorder price goes up.

Preordering is not everyone's cup of tea, but I made a big saving with the recent Bachmann class 40 retool.

 

http://www.ehattons.com/60830/Bachmann_Branchline_32_065_Class_43_North_British_NBL_Warship_D865_Zealous_in_BR_maroon_with_small_yellow_p/StockDetail.aspx

 

Neil

Edited June 29, 2014 by Downendian

[Phil Bullock]

Rails are being cannier - price to be advised!

 

Phil

[Gwiwer]

I suspect - without having any insider knowledge - that Hattons are also in a position to offer loss leaders  in some cases, in other words sell items at below cost and make up the loss by then selling more items more profitably as customers browse the shop / site.

 

No word yet on whether they will have to revised their £76.46 pre-order price but it does stand in stark contrast to the half-size Farish 42 offered at £99.41

[Phil Bullock]

Now showing on Bachmann website.NEW tooling sample.

 

http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/

And complete with opening roof vents! Yee haa! Wheels are a bit shiny so out with the

Matt black paint methinks and only hope supplies of non conductive grease have been eliminated

 

Phil