A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[Mallard60022]

On 11/03/2020 at 18:51, bgman said:

 

AKA ..... Jilted John 

 

(Gordon is a Moron ! )

 

Remember that one ?

 

EMI

Jilted John was actually Clive Morty, but Morty won't admit that.

Twopintsoflargerandapacketofcrispsplease.

Ar$£

[Mallard60022]

On 11/03/2020 at 19:11, Oldddudders said:

I'm trying to get a handle on Gordon (ooh). Like - as they say these days - which one? Let's see :

 

Gordon the Big Engine - either a blue pacific or the last real GM of BR Southern Region, then Director, Regional Railways. Gordon Pettitt. Smashing bloke. 

Gordon Bennett - an oath, something to do with an ante-diluvian motor car

Gordon's gin - probably back in popularity as the drink has had a resurgence

Gay Gordon - some sort of dance, not necessarily LGBT

Flash Gordon - comic hero from some time past

 

You will have others, and my unfamiliarity with contemporary "culture" over decades refers.

 

There was the Italian cheese maker and part time Marathon runner, Gordon Zola.

G. Brown.

[Mallard60022]

15 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

 

 

How about fish traffic from Devon and Cornwall for your bloater(s). I  have  no idea how the traffic was worked,  but I know that there were regular workings from Brixham and Millbay fish platform, plus others.

 

Complete load of bowlags coming up, but it is actually true and relevant to the Fishy post.

I once hitchhiked, with a mate of mine, to Brizzle from Exeter, just because we wanted to.   Would have been early 1967. Getting back was proving difficult as it was dark and evening time. No idea where we were, walking out of Bristol (probably somewhere on the old A38) but this truck pulls up as they did back then even if you were blokes. Yup, Exeter no problem (well, the By Pass, but we could actually walk in those days). It was a fish wagon from Grimsby and going to Plymouth! Turns out that fish went both ways back then because fish local to Devon and Cornwall and the Bay of Biscay etc. was not the same as North Sea fish caught by the Hull and Grimsby Fleets. Now, I do not know if the North Sea fish also came all the way down Devon and the west's fish went back up by train in the earlier days, but I can't remember a 'Fish' being one of the workings into or out of Plymuff  when I were a spotter; could have been night-time of course and from Millbay as Snooper suggests or on the SR from Friary Goods (which isn't far from the Barbican that was the Fish Quay back in the 50s and 60s).

What I'm on about is that a few Vans of Fish may well have appeared going west and or east/north on both WR and SR.

Ar$£ 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Mallard60022
Doh!

[Clive Mortimore]

15 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Jilted John was actually Clive Morty, but Morty won't admit that.

Twopintsoflargerandapacketofcrispsplease.

Ar$£

I might be guilty of many a misdemeanour but that was one felony I had nothing to do with. 

 

Plus I never went out with a Julie.

[Harlequin]

18 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Just leave that there shall we?

Ar$£

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party but that, Sir Duck, is the most excellent thing I've seen for a long time!

[Harlequin]

44 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Jilted John was actually Clive Morty, but Morty won't admit that.

Twopintsoflargerandapacketofcrispsplease.

Ar$£

 

Jilted John of course went on to further fame with his massive Eurovision hit, "Pigeons in Flight":

 

 

Ooph!

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Harlequin

[colin penfold]

33 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Complete load of bowlags coming up, but it is actually true and relevant to the Fishy post.

I once hitchhiked, with a mate of mine, to Brizzle from Exeter, just because we wanted to.   Would have been early 1967. Getting back was proving difficult as it was dark and evening time. No idea where we were, walking out of Bristol (probably somewhere on the old A38) but this truck pulls up as they did back then even if you were blokes. Yup, Exeter no problem (well, the By Pass, but we could actually walk in those days). It was a fish wagon from Grimsby and going to Plymouth! Turns out that fish went both ways back then because fish local to Devon and Cornwall and the Bay of Biscay etc. was not the same as North Sea fish caught by the Hull and Grimsby Fleets. Now, I do not know if the North Sea fish also came all the way down Devon and the west's fish went back up by train in the earlier days, but I can't remember a 'Fish' being one of the workings into or out of Plymuff  when I were a spotter; could have been night-time of course and from Millbay as Snooper suggests or on the SR from Friary Goods (which isn't far from the Barbican that was the Fish Quay back in the 50s and 60s).

What I'm on about is that a few Vans of Fish may well have appeared going west and or east/north on both WR and SR.

Ar$£ 

 

Although the beauty of any van traffic is that Empties and Fulls look exactly the same. Except P4 modellers will probably have the fulls set lower on the suspension. And modellers who provide scale smells, obviously....

[37Oban]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Complete load of bowlags coming up, but it is actually true and relevant to the Fishy post.

I once hitchhiked, with a mate of mine, to Brizzle from Exeter, just because we wanted to.   Would have been early 1967. Getting back was proving difficult as it was dark and evening time. No idea where we were, walking out of Bristol (probably somewhere on the old A38) but this truck pulls up as they did back then even if you were blokes. Yup, Exeter no problem (well, the By Pass, but we could actually walk in those days). It was a fish wagon from Grimsby and going to Plymouth! Turns out that fish went both ways back then because fish local to Devon and Cornwall and the Bay of Biscay etc. was not the same as North Sea fish caught by the Hull and Grimsby Fleets. Now, I do not know if the North Sea fish also came all the way down Devon and the west's fish went back up by train in the earlier days, but I can't remember a 'Fish' being one of the workings into or out of Plymuff  when I were a spotter; could have been night-time of course and from Millbay as Snooper suggests or on the SR from Friary Goods (which isn't far from the Barbican that was the Fish Quay back in the 50s and 60s).

What I'm on about is that a few Vans of Fish may well have appeared going west and or east/north on both WR and SR.

Ar$£ 

Hi,

 

blimey, reading that brought back memories!  When I was but a lad, in the late sixties, I was on holiday with mum, dad and younger brother, heading westwards in a Transit dormobile.  We were parked up in Cheddar Gorge, having a brew when a loaded Grimsby fish lorry passed us, heading towards Cheddar.  Never could figure out what it was doing down there, now I know!

 

Roja

[gwrrob]

16 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

Anyway it now looks like what it's meant to look like and presumably the pics here indicate it might be paying a visit to ANTB one day 

 

As we approach the fifteen hundred page of this thread it's nice to see an old stalwart posting on here again.

 

I can't confirm or deny that a gas turbine will feature on here in the future.

[teaky]

23 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

 

 

On 11/03/2020 at 14:46, gwrrob said:

Rail's have posted their first engineering body sample of Kerosene Castle up.

 

 

23 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Just leave that there shall we?

Ar$£

 

You know that old chestnut about all GWR locos looking alike ...

 

 

[Tallpaul69]

4 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Complete load of bowlags coming up, but it is actually true and relevant to the Fishy post.

I once hitchhiked, with a mate of mine, to Brizzle from Exeter, just because we wanted to.   Would have been early 1967. Getting back was proving difficult as it was dark and evening time. No idea where we were, walking out of Bristol (probably somewhere on the old A38) but this truck pulls up as they did back then even if you were blokes. Yup, Exeter no problem (well, the By Pass, but we could actually walk in those days). It was a fish wagon from Grimsby and going to Plymouth! Turns out that fish went both ways back then because fish local to Devon and Cornwall and the Bay of Biscay etc. was not the same as North Sea fish caught by the Hull and Grimsby Fleets. Now, I do not know if the North Sea fish also came all the way down Devon and the west's fish went back up by train in the earlier days, but I can't remember a 'Fish' being one of the workings into or out of Plymuff  when I were a spotter; could have been night-time of course and from Millbay as Snooper suggests or on the SR from Friary Goods (which isn't far from the Barbican that was the Fish Quay back in the 50s and 60s).

What I'm on about is that a few Vans of Fish may well have appeared going west and or east/north on both WR and SR.

Ar$£ 

Hi all you fish train addicts.

Here is a quick run down of the results of my investigations into WR Fish flows:-

The relevant WTTs show fish from Aberdeen and Grimsby/Hull arriving on 2/3 trains in the early hours at Oxford. From there flows went to Slough, the SR, and Swindon, then on from Swindon to the west country.

Another late evening flow was from Acton to the west. I suspect this started at the East Anglian ports but I don't have the east Anglia WTTs to investigate that.

Also mentioned is Fish/Parcels from Whitland to the London area.

 

There was a dedicated empties return trip from Swindon late afternoon that picked up at Oxford.

Where things get less certain is how the fish vans from various locations got back to Oxford, Whitland or Acton as the case may be!

I suspect, and for the moment will look to model this way, that the empties came back in ones and twos via normal parcels trains or fast freights.

 

Although it makes sense for there to be flows from the West Country ports to other parts of the country I suspect from the facts given in the recent BBC2 series on the Cornish fishing industry that even in the 50s/60s volumes were not that large and would not justify dedicated trains. It may be that trains such as the Penzance - London Perishables included fish vans, but I don't have the west country WTTs to investigate this?

 

Hope the above is helpful?

Cheers

Paul

[KeithMacdonald]

@Tallpaul69

Quote

Although it makes sense for there to be flows from the West Country ports to other parts of the country I suspect from the facts given in the recent BBC2 series on the Cornish fishing industry that even in the 50s/60s volumes were not that large.

 

Yes, once upon a time I was surprised by that. But then I learnt:

1) the kind of fish caught in West Country ports isn't usually what goes into yer typical fish-n-chip shop in volume

2) the really big volumes of fish (for centuries) have been caught far further north.

 

e,g. the Portugese fishing fleets sailing all the way to Newfoundland for cod.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_fishing_in_Newfoundland

 

Landing it Scotland still makes more sense. Just these days, it's trucked from places like Aberdeen to Hull and Grimsby.

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, Tallpaul69 said:

 

Although it makes sense for there to be flows from the West Country ports to other parts of the country I suspect from the facts given in the recent BBC2 series on the Cornish fishing industry that even in the 50s/60s volumes were not that large and would not justify dedicated trains. It may be that trains such as the Penzance - London Perishables included fish vans, but I don't have the west country WTTs to investigate this?

 

 

That's how I understand it but I may be wrong. A trawl through the documents for the parcels/perishables trains on Robert Carroll's website might provide an answer.

 

https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/g/main

[gwrrob]

On 08/03/2020 at 14:50, gwrrob said:

 

Ten minutes of dry-brushing gave me this look.

 

 

 

Changing my photo to greyscale/ monochrome makes the toning look more realistic for some reason.

 

[St Enodoc]

14 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

Jilted John of course went on to further fame with his massive Eurovision hit, "Pigeons in Flight":

 

 

Ooph!

 

A very funny man. Up there with Harry Hill in my book.

[St Enodoc]

14 hours ago, colin penfold said:

And modellers who provide scale smells, obviously....

...like George Douglas and his mates who put a kipper under the baseboards of the N gauge model of Mallaig in the early 70s. After three days at a show it was quite realistic.

[Andy Reichert]

14 hours ago, colin penfold said:

 

Although the beauty of any van traffic is that Empties and Fulls look exactly the same. Except P4 modellers will probably have the fulls set lower on the suspension. And modellers who provide scale smells, obviously....

 

P87 modellers just open the doors to show what's inside.  BTW equalised suspension doesn't sink under load. Only springing does that, but usually in 1:76, it's to small a deflection to see.

 

Andy

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

That's how I understand it but I may be wrong. A trawl through the documents for the parcels/perishables trains on Robert Carroll's website might provide an answer.

 

https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/g/main

Xpress Publishing's "Operation Cornwall" shows one fish van on the 0650 Plymouth - Penzance ordinary passenger, the van arriving at Plymouth on the 2020 (previous night) from Cardiff. No diagram number or return working is shown. There is an Up working (diagram 835) on the 1450 Penzance - Crewe Parcels as far as Bristol then "as ordered".

 

I replicate those two runs on my layout with a white Hornby BR fish van, which is probably all wrong but looks all right.

[5BarVT]

18 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

but I don't have the west country WTTs to investigate this?

At the risk of completely banjaxing any modelling time you have, the Michael Clemens web site has lots of scanned WTTs for the whole of WR.  Latest is about 63/64.  I’ve been enjoying researching Wolverhampton and there’s was an early morning (from) Swindon fish empties in 63.

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/article/working-timetables/553

Paul.

[KeithMacdonald]

11 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I replicate those two runs on my layout with a white Hornby BR fish van, which is probably all wrong but looks all right.

 

Hmm, it looks a bit fishy to me.

[Clearwater]

22 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

@Tallpaul69

 

Yes, once upon a time I was surprised by that. But then I learnt:

1) the kind of fish caught in West Country ports isn't usually what goes into yer typical fish-n-chip shop in volume

2) the really big volumes of fish (for centuries) have been caught far further north.

 

e,g. the Portugese fishing fleets sailing all the way to Newfoundland for cod.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_fishing_in_Newfoundland

 

Landing it Scotland still makes more sense. Just these days, it's trucked from places like Aberdeen to Hull and Grimsby.

 

A fair amount of fish arrives in Immingham, 6 miles or so upstream from Grimsby, either in containers or fish processing ships.  Such ships are too large to pass through the Grimsby lock gate.  I think there’s a regular rotation of one short sea container line that serves this trade.

 

as an aside, the history of Immingham docks is quite interesting.  Recognising that Grimsby was getting draft restricted, even around 1900, the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway surveyed where the deep water o the Humber just kissed the south bank and picked Immingham as the location for a purpose built harbour for coal exports.  Outside ABP’s boardroom in Grimsby, there’s a load of chairs branded MSLR and other period maps showing the evolution of the respective docks.  Ironically, the deep water at Immingham has allowed the direction of coal flow to reverse with major imports coming over the quay until the run down in coal fired power stations.

 

You can see Grimsby’s issue here at not quite low tide.  The pier in the foreground juts out into the Humber for Grimsby River Terminal to get not deep enough water for car import ships to safely berth.   The ships in the distance are on berth at at Immingham and you can see the distinctive silos used for the discharge and storage of biomass pellets bound for Drax Power Station quite clearly.  The bulk ship is on Immingham Bulk Terminal with iron ore or coke bound for the steel mill at Scunthorpe.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Clearwater
Pics and text added

[Tallpaul69]

13 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Xpress Publishing's "Operation Cornwall" shows one fish van on the 0650 Plymouth - Penzance ordinary passenger, the van arriving at Plymouth on the 2020 (previous night) from Cardiff. No diagram number or return working is shown. There is an Up working (diagram 835) on the 1450 Penzance - Crewe Parcels as far as Bristol then "as ordered".

 

I replicate those two runs on my layout with a white Hornby BR fish van, which is probably all wrong but looks all right.

What year is "Operation Cornwall as I don't have access to the publication?

 

I can find in the 1961 carriage workings (Diagram 561) a Bloater on the  2pm Penzance to Crewe parcels as far as Bristol.

I don't know if the use of the GWR term "bloater" carried on after the bloaters were replaced by the BR pattern vans c1960.

Am currently investigating a 3pm Hull to Plymouth (via Swindon) fish train which I have tracked as far as Taunton at 0306 am!

The trail of the Fish continues...….

Cheers

Paul

[simonfish45]

... Paul - your search has ended I can confirm I am sat at my dining room table... 

[Mallard60022]

33 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

What year is "Operation Cornwall as I don't have access to the publication?

 

I can find in the 1961 carriage workings (Diagram 561) a Bloater on the  2pm Penzance to Crewe parcels as far as Bristol.

I don't know if the use of the GWR term "bloater" carried on after the bloaters were replaced by the BR pattern vans c1960.

Am currently investigating a 3pm Hull to Plymouth (via Swindon) fish train which I have tracked as far as Taunton at 0306 am!

The trail of the Fish continues...….

Cheers

Paul

1957

[Mallard60022]

On 13/03/2020 at 15:16, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi all you fish train addicts.

Here is a quick run down of the results of my investigations into WR Fish flows:-

The relevant WTTs show fish from Aberdeen and Grimsby/Hull arriving on 2/3 trains in the early hours at Oxford. From there flows went to Slough, the SR, and Swindon, then on from Swindon to the west country.

Another late evening flow was from Acton to the west. I suspect this started at the East Anglian ports but I don't have the east Anglia WTTs to investigate that.

Also mentioned is Fish/Parcels from Whitland to the London area.

 

There was a dedicated empties return trip from Swindon late afternoon that picked up at Oxford.

Where things get less certain is how the fish vans from various locations got back to Oxford, Whitland or Acton as the case may be!

I suspect, and for the moment will look to model this way, that the empties came back in ones and twos via normal parcels trains or fast freights.

 

Although it makes sense for there to be flows from the West Country ports to other parts of the country I suspect from the facts given in the recent BBC2 series on the Cornish fishing industry that even in the 50s/60s volumes were not that large and would not justify dedicated trains. It may be that trains such as the Penzance - London Perishables included fish vans, but I don't have the west country WTTs to investigate this?

 

Hope the above is helpful?

Cheers

Paul

Ah, the legend that was the Swindon fish engine; all sorts of odds and ends turned up on this train and went over to Laira for service/lay over. Must have been a night time working as they 'just appeared'. Never knew that back in my spotty days, but it does explain  why  ' unusual engines' often ex works, used to turn up on Shed.

P