Where are the Hornby models?

[Fenman]

I guess it depends on what you are collecting, have you seen the Hornby MK2Ds? They don't even have a NEM pocket, neither do the MK3s! 

 

And nor do Bachmann's Mk1 "suburban" stock, which don't have flush glazing, either.

 

Bachmann's gangwayed Mk1s and Mk2s are good. But their pre-Nationalisation passenger coaches are largely dreadful, whereas Hornby's are largely superb. That may all begin to change when we get Bachmann's porthole stock, but that's also been a long time coming and nothing else has been promised by Bachmann. Hornby seem to introduce a brand-new, very high-quality coaching stock range every couple of years.

 

And, of course, the situation is reversed for wagons.

 

Paul

 

 

Edit: of course I had forgotten the other two ranges promised by Bachmann. Still nothing has arrived, of course. Both manufacturers are clearly having supply problems...

[frobisher]

Bachmann's gangwayed Mk1s and Mk2s are good. But their pre-Nationalisation passenger coaches are largely dreadful, whereas Hornby's are largely superb. That may all begin to change when we get Bachmann's porthole stock, but that's also been a long time coming and nothing else has been promised by Bachmann.

Apart from the Birdcage and Thompson carriages...

[Fenman]

Apart from the Birdcage and Thompson carriages...

 

Quite right - I was having a senior moment (and I've ordered some of those*, too...). Now corrected.

 

Paul

 

 

 

* The carriages, I meant, not the senior moments. I think I need to lie down in a darkened room for a bit. Sorry.

[7013]

Thank you 81C as it happens I do have the Bachmann pannier tank you mention and it is fine, what one likes is subjective and all the better if it works well. I have no desire to tell people what they should or should not be buying or ramming it down their throats as you so eloquently put it.

[bennyboy]

And nor do Bachmann's Mk1 "suburban" stock, which don't have flush glazing, either.

 

Bachmann's gangwayed Mk1s and Mk2s are good. But their pre-Nationalisation passenger coaches are largely dreadful, whereas Hornby's are largely superb. That may all begin to change when we get Bachmann's porthole stock, but that's also been a long time coming and nothing else has been promised by Bachmann. Hornby seem to introduce a brand-new, very high-quality coaching stock range every couple of years.

 

And, of course, the situation is reversed for wagons.

 

Paul

 

 

Edit: of course I had forgotten the other two ranges promised by Bachmann. Still nothing has arrived, of course. Both manufacturers are clearly having supply problems...

 

But the reason why a lot of Bachmann's pre-Nationalisation stock is "dreadful" is probably because a lot of the tooling is so old. The Thompson/Bullied/Collett coaches must be at least ten years old, in fact aren't the Collett's based on the old Mainline tooling? 

[Mike70]

According to Hattons, the latest release of the BR Intercity 125 (R3138), is due in stock on the 24th September.

 

Does anyone know if that date is still realistic?

Just looked on Hattons website.  R3138 is now due in on the 15th December.

 

Guess the 24th September wasn't realistic.

[Coach bogie]

The Mainline Colletts in my opinion were slightly better models.

There ware also more accurate. Bachmann reduced the window height due to issues of ejection speed from the moulding machine.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[gwrrob]

I see the GW liveried Castle with Hawksworth tender has now been put back to December.Can anyone tell me when this model was first announced, was it 2011 ?

 

http://www.ehattons.com/51271/Hornby_R3105_GWR_Castle_Class_steam_locomotive_4_6_0_5075_Wellington_in_GWR_green_with_Hawksw/StockDetail.aspx

[dibber25]

Also a totally nonsensical 'come on' price. Comparison with other recent Bachmann locos - especially the 'Dukedog' suggests that the Atlantic will come in at c.£140-150 at 2013 prices.  Add in whatever inflationary impact there will be over the next two years and you can make of the price more or less whatever you want.  But just knock 15% of £140 and the initial lowest possible retail price will be over £100 - and Hattons have said they will not honour the £89 if the loco costs more.  In other words teh price is a complete work of fiction - and not very well thought out fiction at that.

You're right! It is a come-on price. Part of the problem which the hobby faces at the moment is the amount of unsold stock that's 'clogging' the market. There are, of course, various reasons why it is unsold but I won't repeat those as they've been well aired. It's not just Hornby but right across the board. One of the ways in which the industry manages the amount of stock that's out there, is by shifting production slots for items for which the pre-orders are low. Hence, some items get bounced from one year to the next, to the next until they eventually don't get produced. That's because there never gets to be sufficient pre-orders. Early announcements of new models enable retailers to take pre-orders (the price is immaterial if you make the point that you'll charge more or less than the quoted price at the end of the day and give the customer an option to cancel - betting that few will). If the pre-orders are low, the model drops back in the list of priorities for a production slot. If the major retailers can whip up enough pre-orders, then the product will get a quicker ride through the production process. Of course, if you've got other issues such as production problems, getting the pre-order sequence right becomes even more essential and even more difficult. The Chinese are now finding that low volume, labour and process-intensive products like model trains aren't a very attractive manufacturing proposition. Ipads and phones and high-volume, simple to assemble items are where the money is made. And before anyone says "bring production back to the UK," we don't have either the skills or the equipment. To recreate them would take years and substantial investment and the end result, the models, would cost a LOT more. We are where we are. We need to give the manufacturers a break and be patient and we will get some of what we want eventually. The days of getting everything we want, now, are over.

CHRIS LEIGH

[jonathan452]

Just looked on Hattons website.  R3138 is now due in on the 15th December.

 

Guess the 24th September wasn't realistic.

Just in time for father Christmas!

 

Rather thankful I got the Blue/Grey HST (including the TRUB buffet) first time round.

[Andy Hayter]

And where the devil is that Dukedog? When was it announced again? //end rhetorical question//

 

 

Come on Oxexpatriate get into the spirit, this is supposed to be a Hornby bashing thread.

 

 

Seriously though anyone who thinks this supply problem is a Hornby issue is seriously underestimating the problems.  I can say this as someone who has just received his French Pacific 18 months after the original delivery date at an eye-watering 350ish € or £300 - for a 16.5mm gauge pacific.  Bachmann have some problems, as do a large number of European suppliers.

 

HEALTH WARING: some of my comment that follow may seriously offend.  They are however proffered as my view on the current supply problem.

 

 

The supply problems are across Europe at least and maybe beyond. 

 

The simple fact is that production in China is limited following the collapse of one of the major producers.  China is the centre of model railway production across the world and make around 85% of the world's toys - and sorry in industrial terms our hobby is considered as toys.  The failure of Hornby's supplier occurred just as (and possibly as a result of) the world financial collapse occurred.  Since then world economies have struggled and disposable income for the purchase of toys (sorry that word again) has diminished.  Therefore there is an understandable reticence for new investors to set up new businesses to fill the gap.  After all if one of the leaders cannot make enough margin to stay in business, what chance for a newcomer?

 

In this environment anyone who thinks that Hornby can just go out and find another new supplier - even after 5 years - is probably the sort of person who thinks that the builder who offers the lowest price to build his mansion and can start tomorrow is the right business partner.  Our hobby demands accurate (ever more accurate) detailed metal moulding, milling and other metal skills, injection moulding of plastics to the finest tolerances, detailed painting and printing systems and a skilled assembly force that will do the job for next to nothing.  Such companies do not grow overnight and Hornby and others are caught between a rock and a hard place.  Little available production availability and what is available is directly commercially linked to Bachmann - their main UK and sometime European competitor. 

 

Even Bachmann have scheduling problems but handle them differently to Hornby - note the Dukedog comment above or look at the posts about when (for example)  the SECR birdcage coaches will be available.

 

Those who say the Hornby are missing a trick by not producing ABC or XYZ are completely missing the point.  Hornby may not be producing the model you want (or indeed the model I want) and you may personally know hundreds of people who would buy a ..... (in reality probably a couple of dozen, who because you congregate in like minded groups, cannot be extrapolated across the market), but that is not the problem.  As the title suggests the problem is largely not that Hornby are producing models that people do not want, they are not producing models.  The stores and shelves are empty - which is not good for our local model shops, nor indeed the box shifters. 

 

The one big exception to the unwanted comment might be the Olympic Games sets; but the fact these still sit on the shelves to our ire and at heavily discounted prices, I think misses the point.  I do not know the exact lead time to get approval to use the Olympic Games as a marketing point, but I could well image that approval would need to be sought at  least 4 years in advance.  This would mean that these sets would have been planned in 2007 or before.  In the then current market people had much disposable income and I am sure that these sets were not so much directed at the modeller as the person who wanted an upmarket Olympic memento.  Wind forwards 4 years and little disposable income and few sales.  The sad fact with 20:20 hindsight is that the production of these sets took  the valuable productions slots for things that Hornby could otherwise have sold almost immediately.  But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

Further, remember that when Hornby have a production slot they are not duty bound to use if for you.  It might be used for a Scalectrix model.  It might even be use for (shock horror - how dare they) a foreign railway model because Hornby is no longer solely UK linked, but is an international company - with Jouef, Rivarossi, Electrotren, Arnold and others in the group.   So taking the other model market with which I am familiar (France), Hornby produce a Hornby-Jouef 2-8-2 141R.  A nice post war class of over 1300 (that is thirteen hundred and not a typo), which with 4 tenders (mostly produced) 2 trailing tucks (produced0 and 2 sets of driving wheels (produced) could be provided in its entirety.  Current selling price is around 299€ - say £250.  They seem to be selling steadily and new models appear every 3 months or so.  Over time Hornby could produce the full set - which would be probably 1500 models with all modifications and tender swaps.

 

Now I don't have the market figures to hand but I would guess that with a similar population to the UK, the French model railway market is somewhat smaller than the UK.  So if you were Hornby, and you had a production slot for say 500 locos, would you use it for an LNER Cock of the North - new tooling, lots of R&D and a market that thinks it deserves it for under 100 notes - or would you produce another 141R - rejig the existing moulds and just add new tampo printing with a market that will pay over twice the price - and therefore generate at least twice the margin? 

 

So this is where we come full circle to my £300 Pacific.  All the while you expect to get a mainline locomotive, highly detailed and absolutely to scale, for £89 (and yes I know this was  Bachmann example), you will be at the back of the queue for production slots.  In fact, the reason that Hornby's main supplier went down 5 years ago was in part due to the fact that you would not pay a realistic price for your models.  This squeezed Hornby who in turn squeezed their supplier, until the pips squeaked and they went under.  Now somehow it is just Hornby's fault.  No, you are also culpable.

 

Are Hornby perfect - certainly not.  They could and should be more open with their end customers and the stores that supply them about the problems and difficulties: but in answer to the original question, where are the Hornby models?  At the back of the queue, waiting for UK modellers to pay prices that keep all steps in the manufacturing and supply process in business.

 

So at the start of this post I gave a Health Warning:

I have told you that you buy toys

That you have no understanding of the issues

That your wish list of models has no impact on this discussion whatsoever

And that you are a bunch of tight wads who do not want to pay realistic prices for your models.

 

I guess I have now just about pee'd everyone else.

[Andy Hayter]

PS

 

I do not begrudge REE the £300 paid for the pacific, it is magnificent - and seems to be selling out at a rate that befits the quality.

[The Black Hat]

Some good points however !!

 

The Bachmann A2 is nowhere near as good as the A3 and A4 which date from 2005  IMHO for the following reasons

 

Heavy mouldings lacking finesse

 

Loco

Boiler has prominent seam on the sides very visible no idea why they are there,  tooling ?

Very thick valve gear Hornby is probably too fine

Poor assembly of cab to chassis area all suffer is sagging bottoms

Fixed ventilators on cab roof

Lack of detail in cab area, poor shaped seats

Due to still using flanged wheel on the Cartazzi truck the frames are very poor too shallow . The Hornby flangeless design is not perfect but it works !! My a2 are fairly constant derailers even on gentle"ish" curves

LNER Driving wheels painted different colour from the Body .

 

Tender

Still putting Brakes hard against the frames which they are still doing instead of a seperate moulding

 

In general

 

Golfball handrail knobs still being used and they are still fitting overscle Black handrails to all their Locos .

Hello Mike,

I know you and I often stand united when lobbying for Eastern region stuff, but here we slightly digress. Nothing wrong with that, in fact its nice to get the opinion of others and enjoy respecting their views.

 

First, I dont think it really matters when the models were made that you can compare them to. Alright there have been some significant changes to the model scene and the standard by which we expect to have. But really, after the Hornby Merchant Navy was produced standards have jumped massively. The introduction of DCC to models, sometimes as a refit to the tooling of those even after the Merchant Navy have raised standards further. In the begining outscouring this to China led us to enjoy cheap models in the booming economy. Now our standards are set highly, costs going up and our disposable income is stretched. The opposite of what we had a few years hence. As a result a whole number of releases have shared the same high standards of what we have come to expect, not just the A4 and A2, so although they date from a few years apart I dont think it makes too much difference. Comparing engines like the B1s which have parts either side of this leap forwards would be a fair assesment of changes.

 

But the crux of what you mention is the comparrison. Im not really after roof ventilators that move and can be set. Yes its a nice add on, about as useful as engines with opening smokebox doors... but really isnt needed for a working model. While some might look so close to notice the brake gear and the thickness of the seats in the cab, when my engine is moving on the layout, I dont think they matter as much. The rodding might be more clunky or thin on the other but if the overall appearance is fine and works again Im happy. Id like mine to be working models. This means things like the Cartazzi on these, or the leading pony truck on other releases are important and I dont want derailing engines or those with bad contacts prone to stall with DCC sound going.

 

Those black handrails I think are going to be a tad oversize owing to the sheer manufacturing needed to do it at a price and means thats best. Im quite happy with them as I dont think they detract too much from the rest of the model. Really, they arent too dissimilar from others used in the Hornby range, like those on the Royal Scot or Brit.

 

The A2 isnt perfect and indeed the problems with the cab were notorious at the time, but overall, Id say they are as good as each other.

 

 

Wrong colour in BR and LNER , BR is very bright, LNER is Darlington green not Doncaster

LNER Lining is very overscale Hornby is superb in comparison they even missed the bottom line on the LNER version of the Tender and forgot to paint the top of BR tender Black.

 

After all that I still have  A2's and two of which are now A2/2 and A2/3 examples and am very grateful they have been made !!

 

As to useage the O1 A3 and A4 were all used in the NE region

 

As said before my post relate to LNER era as no interest in other areas.

 

Right... with this I can be afforded more opportunity for frivolity. It just seems that paint, like all the froth it causes on the network today with reliveries is what gets us all emotive to an extent, once the subject of what class it is has been sorted.

 

Paint and the whole LNER green thing is a matter of opinion. The BR one I have for 60532 I think is spot on but all engines were not the same identical shade. If the tender top isnt the right colour its not much to touch up, and I bet a great many have left it as it is. The LNER lining might be a tad bigger but I dont think it is by much. I have gone and bought an A2 and an A1 from Bachmann to then renumber and crest them into British Railways Apple Green, with lining and late crest. The lining for the cab isnt much bigger that that on the boiler. Youd be surprised how many think they remember seeing 60164 Northern Star, or 60540 Orpheus. Of the pair, Id say the A2 is more traditional LNER Green, the A1 is darker and more Darlington green in shade. Its a shame more engines arent released with a Darlington shade, as everything seems to be focused on the popular apple green idea.

 

But I then I would say that. Although younger and didnt see the end of steam Id love to model it. A1 to A4 all passed through on express trains, but the O1 were largely allocated to the Tyne Dock turn although one or two might have got the odd working elsewhere, they are not synominous with the NE region as they are for down south. The same can be said for the L1, a few were here, but that model really has been done to be a suburban engine for the stock and trains in London. The B1 is good but again, no Darlington style somebox door and Ive had to fashion one myself... you watch 61264 will be annouced by Hornby next year!

 

I really enjoy reading about your ideas for LNER and the period before my interest in the BR steam days in the North Eastern Region, Im sure time will come where that engine is annouced that means we both are united in joy for its arrival. Besides, dont you need a Q6, J21 and K1 too?

 

 

[The Black Hat]

 

HEALTH WARING: some of my comment that follow may seriously offend. 

 

 

Isnt there a chance that there can be a health warning button we could add to go with the options for liking, agreeing, funny, disagree; that we can select to warn others en masse that they could be about to read a post that really makes sense?

[The Stationmaster]

I see the GW liveried Castle with Hawksworth tender has now been put back to December.Can anyone tell me when this model was first announced, was it 2011 ?

 

http://www.ehattons.com/51271/Hornby_R3105_GWR_Castle_Class_steam_locomotive_4_6_0_5075_Wellington_in_GWR_green_with_Hawksw/StockDetail.aspx

Don't know about 2011 Rob but it was shown in the 2012 catalogue as 3rd Quarter

[andyman7]

Part of the problem which the hobby faces at the moment is the amount of unsold stock that's 'clogging' the market. There are, of course, various reasons why it is unsold but I won't repeat those as they've been well aired. It's not just Hornby but right across the board. 

CHRIS LEIGH

And as I have posted elsewhere, one of the side effects of the slow supply of Hornby models is that back stocks of a number of lines are being cleared, which is a necessary pre-requisite of rebalancing a market when socio-economic events change the status quo. It means that when new supplies are available dealers will hopefully order them in (as they need to re-stock) and that prospective purchasers will buy rather then linger in the hope of some bargain basement dumping.

[robmcg]

It evidently pays to buy locos when they are current.

 

I paid £54 each for the moguls and £95 for my 'Plymouth' when new! 

 

John

 

Thems were the days!

 

<g>

 

I agree with the posts above this reply which pointed out the difficulties in finding production slots for what the industry thinks of as 'toys', at prices below £100 retail for production runs in the hundreds or low thousands?  I'm not sure how it compares to US HO modelling but I suspect the production runs are very small for UK prototype models.    I wonder how many Standard Class 4 2-6-0s Bachmann have sold?

[The Stationmaster]

And as I have posted elsewhere, one of the side effects of the slow supply of Hornby models is that back stocks of a number of lines are being cleared, which is a necessary pre-requisite of rebalancing a market when socio-economic events change the status quo. It means that when new supplies are available dealers will hopefully order them in (as they need to re-stock) and that prospective purchasers will buy rather then linger in the hope of some bargain basement dumping.

Is that another way of saying they are trying to get rid of stuff they haven't been able to sell previously?  Plus of course Hornby will have quite a quantity of stock returned from Modelzone which they will ideally hope to get shot of as quickly as possible and turn a cost on their balance sheet into positive cash flow.

 

But that still might not help the retailers because they have had, in many cases, to cater for the 'I want it now' market and that has meant good turnover for them when the new items are flowing - they, just like Hornby, don't want stacks of £10 notes in boxes on their shelves disguised as slow moving model railway items.  For many of us buyers it's no skin off our noses - we live in a land of plenty compared with what was available to us only a couple of decades back - so we're happy to wait although preferably not too long.  Equally we look to model shops for far more than the latest, lowest priced, piece of r-t-r whatever and it is the potential risk to that which concerns me far more than possibly having to wait yet another year for a Hornby 'Grange'.

[micklner]

Hello Mike,

I know you and I often stand united when lobbying for Eastern region stuff, but here we slightly digress. Nothing wrong with that, in fact its nice to get the opinion of others and enjoy respecting their views.

 

First, I dont think it really matters when the models were made that you can compare them to. Alright there have been some significant changes to the model scene and the standard by which we expect to have. But really, after the Hornby Merchant Navy was produced standards have jumped massively. The introduction of DCC to models, sometimes as a refit to the tooling of those even after the Merchant Navy have raised standards further. In the begining outscouring this to China led us to enjoy cheap models in the booming economy. Now our standards are set highly, costs going up and our disposable income is stretched. The opposite of what we had a few years hence. As a result a whole number of releases have shared the same high standards of what we have come to expect, not just the A4 and A2, so although they date from a few years apart I dont think it makes too much difference. Comparing engines like the B1s which have parts either side of this leap forwards would be a fair assesment of changes.

 

But the crux of what you mention is the comparrison. Im not really after roof ventilators that move and can be set. Yes its a nice add on, about as useful as engines with opening smokebox doors... but really isnt needed for a working model. While some might look so close to notice the brake gear and the thickness of the seats in the cab, when my engine is moving on the layout, I dont think they matter as much. The rodding might be more clunky or thin on the other but if the overall appearance is fine and works again Im happy. Id like mine to be working models. This means things like the Cartazzi on these, or the leading pony truck on other releases are important and I dont want derailing engines or those with bad contacts prone to stall with DCC sound going.

 

Those black handrails I think are going to be a tad oversize owing to the sheer manufacturing needed to do it at a price and means thats best. Im quite happy with them as I dont think they detract too much from the rest of the model. Really, they arent too dissimilar from others used in the Hornby range, like those on the Royal Scot or Brit.

 

The A2 isnt perfect and indeed the problems with the cab were notorious at the time, but overall, Id say they are as good as each other.

 

 

 

Right... with this I can be afforded more opportunity for frivolity. It just seems that paint, like all the froth it causes on the network today with reliveries is what gets us all emotive to an extent, once the subject of what class it is has been sorted.

 

Paint and the whole LNER green thing is a matter of opinion. The BR one I have for 60532 I think is spot on but all engines were not the same identical shade. If the tender top isnt the right colour its not much to touch up, and I bet a great many have left it as it is. The LNER lining might be a tad bigger but I dont think it is by much. I have gone and bought an A2 and an A1 from Bachmann to then renumber and crest them into British Railways Apple Green, with lining and late crest. The lining for the cab isnt much bigger that that on the boiler. Youd be surprised how many think they remember seeing 60164 Northern Star, or 60540 Orpheus. Of the pair, Id say the A2 is more traditional LNER Green, the A1 is darker and more Darlington green in shade. Its a shame more engines arent released with a Darlington shade, as everything seems to be focused on the popular apple green idea.

 

But I then I would say that. Although younger and didnt see the end of steam Id love to model it. A1 to A4 all passed through on express trains, but the O1 were largely allocated to the Tyne Dock turn although one or two might have got the odd working elsewhere, they are not synominous with the NE region as they are for down south. The same can be said for the L1, a few were here, but that model really has been done to be a suburban engine for the stock and trains in London. The B1 is good but again, no Darlington style somebox door and Ive had to fashion one myself... you watch 61264 will be annouced by Hornby next year!

 

I really enjoy reading about your ideas for LNER and the period before my interest in the BR steam days in the North Eastern Region, Im sure time will come where that engine is annouced that means we both are united in joy for its arrival. Besides, dont you need a Q6, J21 and K1 too?

      My main point was that poor old Hornby always seem to get the butt end of everything these days. A lot is self inflicted by lack of communication and my main grice lack of spare body parts using the excuse there made in China and we cant get spares is simply not good enough. If they can get the chassis parts (with the exception of certain parts.e.g tender weights and some  bogie brackets) then they can get the bodyparts as well , total nonsense.

      To confirm the quality of Hornby e.g For Tony Wright to say" I will never have to build a A3 or A4 ever again" says something for the newer models being made by Hornby compared to Bachmann . Again I have never personally read  TW make the same comment re a current Bachmann Loco. I dont read Diesel Loco reviews for all I know he may have said that with regard to Diesels dozens of times.

      Before anyone now answers saying I bashing Bachmann I am not . I have their current O4 and A2 and older LNER J72 ,J39 ,K3 and V1 and on the whole they are excellent ,however they are not in general as good as Hornbys current new releases.  The Bachmann B1 I owned were sold on as soon as the Hornby version was released which is miles better in every department.  IMHO .

       I have Q6 and J21 and J27  in kit built form if and when any of those classes appear rtr  I will jump at them as I am sure many others will. A K1 is too late for me  as BR only as only appeared in 1949.

      Re the O1 I am  not going to check at the moment  but I am sure a number were allocated to NE sheds, the current LNER O1 (if you can still find one) is a West Hartlepool engine as modelled .

     LNER Green I have never seen anything to better Precison paints version of Doncaster and Darlington shades. 95% of Hornby A1 and A3's produced match the Doncaster shade. The Bachmann A2 doesnt match the colour and is the Darlington shade which is wrong as far as I know,but the recent LNER V2 I have just updated with numerous parts (on my workshop thread) does match the Doncaster shade.  Make that what you want I wont those any sleep over the differences in colour, others will !! not me !!

     Lastly re the B1 I would rather see a Apple Green named version than a variation of Smokebox door !!

 

      After reading the recent previous above post we all need to count ourselves very lucky we get are anything produced .

[Ian Hargrave]

Andy...post146....was the...'Health Waring' a spelling error or a deliberate pun? .Yes,I think we all know there are production difficulties in China for a multiplicity of reasons......all of them by now well-aired on this forum....exhaustively so.This,however,is not the point.Hornby would not suffer the brickbats that it currently does if it kept its client group properly and honestly informed.Why it chooses to continue in this singularly befuddled manner is mystifying and conducive to harmful speculation. The product is mainly first class.It has a supportive group of prospective purchasers. And yes...we are prepared in the main to pay more to sustain quality......but no more monastic silences,please. Models may be classified as toys but MOST of us are not children. Openness is not going to wipe out share values.Uncertainty might.

[Ozexpatriate]

Isnt there a chance that there can be a health warning button we could add to go with the options for liking, agreeing, funny, disagree; that we can select to warn others en masse that they could be about to read a post that really makes sense?

Something in the line of an uncomfortable truth?

[darren01]

Yes, I think we all know there are production difficulties in China for a multiplicity of reasons

 

But this have been going on since 2009, where in 2013 now so that's four years, would you run a company like this?.

[micklner]

Yes, I think we all know there are production difficulties in China for a multiplicity of reasons

 

But this have been going on since 2009, where in 2013 now so that's four years, would you run a company like this?.

Perhaps there isnt another option ? who knows ? dont think we are going to find out ?

[Coach bogie]

Perhaps there isnt another option ? who knows ? dont think we are going to find out ?

Classic manufacture monopoly situation. Price low to get all the business and eliminate the competition and then you can dictate price and delivery giving your customers no choice but to accept or go elsewhere with the confident knowledge there is no elsewhere.......until another nation decides they can offer an alternative. In my life time evrything stamped MADE IN JAPAN, slowly it became MADE IN HONG KONG, then MADE IN TAIWAN and now MADE IN CHINA. Since the 1950's manufacturing has gone through cycles like this (usually about 10 years). In my toy marketing days there exactly the same problems in Hong Kong (pre China rule) as there are now with China. Nothing changes much apart from geographic location. India is seen by many as the next major manufacturer and they have one major advantage - steel. China is the largest consumer of steel but does not control sufficient raw materials (iron ore) and is only now replacing expensive and outdated steel production (which has rseulted in quality issues methods). India is increasing its' share of worlds quality steel production and this could see the next manufacturing shift. My wife works in the oil industry and reports most of their equipment casting is now shifted to India.

 

I suggest the toy/hobby industry as a whole is on the verge of a new production centre shift.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[brushman47544]

Part of the problem which the hobby faces at the moment is the amount of unsold stock that's 'clogging' the market. There are, of course, various reasons why it is unsold but I won't repeat those as they've been well aired. It's not just Hornby but right across the board. One of the ways in which the industry manages the amount of stock that's out there, is by shifting production slots for items for which the pre-orders are low. Hence, some items get bounced from one year to the next, to the next until they eventually don't get produced. That's because there never gets to be sufficient pre-orders.

 

Changing the priority for production slots to prioritise items that are expected to sell well certainly makes sence, but Hornby is not helping itself very much by not being clear up front how the model will be made, by which I mean giving us details in advance about separate fittings vs moulded detail and all that. I for one (and I'm sure I'm not alone) will no longer pre-order because I don't know what I will be getting. That's not to say I'm against design clever, the 2-BIL is a lovely model, simply that I want to know what will be what first. Up to the new Hornby Castle, O1, L1 era, I knew I could pre-order and be pretty confident about the final product. Not any more.

 

And before anyone says "bring production back to the UK," we don't have either the skills or the equipment. To recreate them would take years and substantial investment and the end result, the models, would cost a LOT more. We are where we are. We need to give the manufacturers a break and be patient and we will get some of what we want eventually. The days of getting everything we want, now, are over.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

I happened to be reading the latest issue of the French magazine Rail Passion last night, which includes a review of the latest re-liveries of the Roco SNCF BB22000. The review states that they have been manufactured entirely in the EU and the prices are almost double what we expect to pay for Hornby and Bachmann models produced in China. One can imagine that this means EU countries where labour costs are low compared to those in the UK.

 

I'm happy to wait, after all it speads modelling (i.e. hobby rather than essentials) spending over a longer period, but if we are going to have to wait for longer and ultimately see less, I would prefer that Hornby and Bachmann reflected that in their catalogues and concentrated on the longer lived standard liveries for normal production runs rather than producing rarer versions that inevitably sell less well.