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Andy Y

Invicta commission Bachmann to produce CCT

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If I were going to renumber a model, I wouldn't buy the weathered version.

 

It isn't very difficult to become proficient at weathering, any more than it is to renumber models - but you do have to be prepared to try.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

John, all of Bachmann's crimson/cream or maroon Mk1 coach releases this year are ready weathered, only the blue/grey ones are not...

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John, all of Bachmann's crimson/cream or maroon Mk1 coach releases this year are ready weathered, only the blue/grey ones are not...

 

Short-sighted, IMHO.

 

However, there seem to be quite few Bachmann Mk.1s on Ebay.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Invicta now have painted samples showing on their site;

 

http://www.invictamodelrail.com/exclusive-models-117-c.asp

 

So hopefully they're not too far away now.

 

Price now showing as TBC though. I enquired about this at the Chatham show and the bad news is that they reckon they may be in the region of £35 now and at that level they wouldn't be able to honour the pre-order price without suffering a loss on these models.

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Whoops, that might be interesting- I can't recall how many I have on pre-order now!

 

I don't blame Bachmann or Invicta as I fully understand that this was out of their control and wouldn't expect Invicta, (or any other retailer) to take such a large fiscal 'hit'.

 

Before anyone disagrees, when the (limited edition) models are ready, we will receive a phone call. If you still think it represents value for money, you will complete the sale. However, if you don't like the revised price, don't buy.

 

I don't like the price hike as much as the next person, but , although disappointing that appears to be the nature of the game these days with Chinese manufactured products- something I suspect that we are all getting used to...

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I have six on pre-order.  All of those will be cancelled if they are unable honour the originally-offered price or something near to it.

I know and understand why prices have gone up sharply.  I don't believe these vans will represent value for money if they are as suggested now to be priced at £35 or thereabouts.  Preordered at £19.99 means that is almost a doubling in price, way above what Bachmann has set as their new benchmark and frankly more than I think they are worth.  New-regime Bachmann Mk1 coaches are still coming in below £30 and while I appreciate the cost per unit equation differs on commissions I am not at all happy about the suggested hike in this case.

 

I have emailed Invicta seeking clarification and if I am advised of a substantial rise in price I shall simply reinstate the old Lima vans I have been running until now, and indeed seek out more through pre-owned channels; the loss will be Invicta's as much as Bachmann's.

Edited by Gwiwer

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I have wanted a couple of these for a while and will probably buy even if they are £35, simple reasoning being by the time I have upgraded the chassis on a Lima one with new wheels, w irons etc, resprayed, re lettered it I am probably not that far short of £35. I would love to have a go at a Masterclass models one as they are a fantastic kit but simply am too time poor at the moment and cost wise would work out considerably more expensive than the Bachmann one albeit no doubt a better end result.

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My response from Invicta is copied below:

 

 

 

We have been quoted between £30 - £35, but it looks very likely they will be £29.99 (final confirmation is awaited), due to Bachmann having raised all of its prices, including on any commissioned items.

 

We will be contacting everyone by e mail, or phone when the products are released, to advise of the price so orders can be proceeded with, or cancelled at that point. Prices will also be shown in advance both in adverts and on line when confirmed.

 

Good marks for customer service in that they clearly state they will contact those with pre-orders rather than hope they in turn are contacted or simply process the orders regardless.  Yes Bachmann have raised their prices for well-discussed and widely-known reasons and by varying degrees.

 

From the pre-order price of £19.99 to the lowest suggested price now of £29.99 represents an increase of fractionally above 50%.  Bachmann's average price increase is substantially lower.

 

I had set myself a top price of £25.50 representing a price increase of 27.5% above which I was not prepared to proceed.  Accordingly I do not feel able to proceed with my order and have cancelled it.  I have also privately contacted the RMweb member who had offered to purchase my Lima CCTs and advised that in these circumstances I have had to withdrawn them from sale and reinstate them to the current fleet.

 

Each of us is equally free to make our own decision based upon these new circumstances.  

 

Should circumstances change and the vans be offered at or below £25.50 each I would rethink my position.  And to ensure fair comparisons all prices are quoted inclusive of VAT despite the fact that I would, what ever the cost, pay the zero-VAT price.

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My tuppence worth?

 

Bachmann have raised their prices, with a number of reasons given, but basically rising Chinese costs. In reality, to survive, they have to do this. As customers, we can only take it or leave it I'm afraid, so no point in going on about it. Personally, of course I don't want it to happen, but being a realist, accept that it has to happen.

Bachmann have NOT raised the prices uniformly across the range. A good thing in my opinion, though it does lead to some large increases on some items. They have obviously looked at their costs for individual items before setting the levels. To my mind it makes sense to have the biggest price increase on the new(er) items, for a number of reasons. Just the way of commerce I am afraid.

Commisions are a different matter. These are limited runs, with specifications (which also affect the price setting in the final product) determined by a contract between shop & Bachmann. The finance liability rests with the (relatively small) retailer, so cost to the customer will always be higher. Add this factor to the Chinese increase, bingo, they WILL increase from the original planned price.

Once again, take it or leave it, like everything else you buy, you will pay the price if you want it.

Of course, if the shop sets the price too high they risk the lack of sales, but this is market forces at work. And the financial risk taking again.

Personally for me, my order remains at this price. It is well within the range of current rtr coaches on offer. I don't take the view that it is by comparison a "smaller coach", rather that it s "another coaching vehicle", on a limited production run.

 

Stewart

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I'll suspend my Class 26/0 and 40 plans somewhat, to support CCT fleet acquisition. These are non-negotiable, so something will have to yield elsewhere. 

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I recently had an excusive Invicta product order come into stock, where the Bachmann price had increased significantly prior to release - the Royal Mail twin BG set. Invicta were excellent in contacting me and explaining the issue, they did e-mail me and advise me of the new price and asked me if I wanted to go ahead. They do not have control over the prices Bachmann set and it was clear from the original Bachmann announcement that exclusives would also be affected. This has undoubtably put pressure on the retailers who have commissioned exclusives, as with the levels of increase being applied, they have a real risk of suffering significant cancelled orders and have stock that takes much longer to shift (if it shifts). I know that Kernow are in a similar position with their commissioned Delabole slate presflo set, which has risen from £44.95 pre-order to an expected £79.95.

 

I am caught with a few of these pre-order price increases and do intend to honour the commitments I've made to those retailers I've ordered from, which includes 2 maroon CCTs, as its clearly not a situation that they have created, however I've decided that I will not pre-order any further Bachmann proposed releases or exclusives as I want to be clear about what the final price will be before making a commitment.

 

It's also worth remembering that the Invicta price includes postage and packing for UK orders, which does make a difference, even with the higher prices. 

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Kernow are in a similar position with their commissioned Delabole slate presflo set, which has risen from £44.95 pre-order to an expected £79.95.

 

Currently listed at £79.99 (not £79.95) and with advice that they are in discussions with Bachmann over the price rise which Kernow are clearly unhappy about.  And as with the CCTs they have suggested they are unable to honour pre-order prices on a 65% hike.  I don't blame them.  Had I ordered those I would also have cancelled faced with such a huge price rise.

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How much is the nearest equivalent, the Hornby Van C? If you include the postage there won't be much difference.

 

Bear in mind that the retailers Invicta and Kernow, are left holding the short unpleasant end of the stick here. Bachmann have had the price increases imposed upon them by the changing nature of the Chinese market, and have to change prices to stay in business. The retailers will have that to pass on too, and will have the 30 day invoice to pay within days of the stock arriving. It will now take a darn sight longer to sell the 50-65% of stock required (rough guess) to start seeing a return on their money.

 

Mike

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Not sure what my "final position" will be here. Whilst I only have a single wagon on pre-order, and owning one is not life-or-death, it rather pains me that having decided where part of ones budgeted money will be spent (even including accounting for a possible SMALL/REASONABLE increase) I will be having to foot the bill for a 50% higher price!

As stated by others, I probably would be prepared to manage the average or even higher percentages that Bachmann have announced for their product line, I am on board with understanding the need to raise prices,

I still think MORE THAN 50% is frankly gouging the public, especially given the point of pre-ordering is to allow both the retailer (who has no real control anyway over these things) and more importantly the manufacturer to have a reasonable and SAFE understanding of the volume they will produce. Seems to me if they want to up the price of something by 50% or more, it should be on announced but as yet undelivered/unmanufactured/non-preordered items.

 

I also "get" the comments that you "don't have to buy it", BUT, the point of pre-ordering is to allow you to actually DO SO with the knowledge and good faith expectation that the item can be obtained at a price at least CLOSE to the original pre-order figure. It also provides the manufacturer and/or retailer in the case of a commissioned item, some form of guarantee of volume to manufacture. Seems this drammatic change of price may also hurt in the long run as folks might well see no reason or point in pre-ordering if they have no real clue (my opinion, BUT, 50% or more increase in price equals no real clue) what the final cost might be. Might as well just WAIT until the product is really available in the retail chain and THEN decide if it's worth the cost. Catch-22 for manufacturers regarding quantity to build and retailers regarding quantity to order/stock!

 

The folks that possibly stand to be hurt the most might even be the retailer who could find them on their hands and having to sell off at a reduced price, if too many people balk at the cost. Seems Bachmann win all round in this, and the consumer will be the one to suffer. Hopefuly the retailer will be adequately compensated if these are produced in the pre-order volume (always presuming Bachmann have/are manufacturing already??) and they find a lot fo folks declining the offer. Which begs the question, are Bachmann upping the price and waiting to see what the response is, BEFORE manufacturing?

 

Oh well, as an afterthough, I see there's no information provided on when they might be available other than "2014", only that they'll cost us 50% more! Way to go Bachmann. Maybe if they said, it's 50% more but delivery will be guaranteed by Sept. 1st., I'd be less pessimistic!

 

EDIT: Added thought - As far as "a commmitment to the retailer" goes, I committed to buy one for 19.99, and although unstated by me, would be prepared to pay somewhat more, the target of 25 quid sounds "OK" I guess, but I don't feel ANY commitment to anyone, retailer OR manufacturer to honour anything if I am stuck with no commitment on their side other than actually producing the item. What if they decided it was a 500% increase in price, anyone feel commited to buy a CCT for 100 quid then?

Edited by Ian Abel

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Gwiwer, can't understand why you pointed out a 4 pence error in the values I quoted as surely that is of no significance to the overall context of the price increase that I was quoting, unfortunately I didn't have access to the correct value, seems rather picky. I may be wrong but it seemed to me that you thought I was disagreeing with your position, which I am not, as I too find it difficult to accept the prices now being applied to these commissioned models, however we have made different decisions about the actions we will take, which is as it should be.

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Yes, its a tricky one for a lot of people and not forgetting where this leaves the retailers of these special commissions too.

 

Up to now Bachmann have effectively been subsidising freight stock (and multiple units) within their range and these are therefore seeing the relatively larger increases (substantially above 20%). Now Bachmann are charging a "fairer" price should i choose not to buy on principle? I dont suppose this will bring prices down so either i buy nothing or make a value call given the new prices. Certainly i will be buying less but i hope my budget will stretch to a couple of these...

 

On a different note, as a consumer, i assume that if the preorder price changes before delivery, i have the right to cancel? If this is the case then the recent price rises wouldnt stop me from preordering (assuming the preorder price was reasonable) but they might stop me from completing the order. Seems the retailers are shouldering a substantial risk here. Might we see fewer special commissions as a result?

 

*gribble*

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It's getting to be something when model railways is getting to be more expensive than women as a hobby...

oops - wrong thread........... ;)

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Price rises in general have made me realise that the glut of wonderful models over the past decade has turned me into more of a collector than I am happy being.

 

I really don't see the point of having almost two wardrobes-full of as-bought models that never see the light of day and have already had a "thin-out" of side-interests that will finance most of the forthcoming stuff that I really want.

 

That said, the cost of components to detail and build replacement chassis for Lima ones I have 'worked over' in the past makes £29-99 for something that won't need any of that sound quite reasonable to me. 

 

I only have one on pre-order, anyway! :jester:

 

John

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My order will still stand. She did say when I ordered mine in the shop earlier on in the year that Bachmann would be putting  the price would up.

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It's getting to be something when model railways is getting to be more expensive than women as a hobby...

oops - wrong thread........... ;)

You can get a woman for £29.99? Where's that then? Do they come with sprung buffers?

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You can get a woman for £29.99? Where's that then? Do they come with sprung buffers?

 

I had one, but i've passed it on as the buffers were sloppy & the model was the wrong shape.... 

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Hmm,

I preordered 4, for me I guess I can handle a rise to the £25 mark. Much more and I don't think my wallet could bear it.

 

At this rate I'll have to return to my old hobbies of prostitutes and alcohol....

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Hmm,

I preordered 4, for me I guess I can handle a rise to the £25 mark. Much more and I don't think my wallet could bear it.

 

At this rate I'll have to return to my old hobbies of prostitutes and alcohol....

Just buy two and drink the alcohol in quantity. When you look, you'll see 4....

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I had one, but i've passed it on as the buffers were sloppy & the model was the wrong shape.... 

 

I don't think we need to know if it suffered from coupling droop ;)

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