Dave F's photos - ongoing - more added each day

[DaveF]

I think there are some directional problems. J1565 contradicts J2043. I don't know the area but I would have said the concrete sleepered track was the fast lines in which case J2043 is right and is up on the slow line. Then all the others are wrong. But I stand to be corrected!

 

 

J2043 is on the down fast, i.e. heading towards Trent.

 

 

Yes, that makes more sense in terms of the types of train seen.

 

The Mk2c coaches in J2041 are almost certainly brand new and on a test train from Derby. They did not run on the MML at this time.

 

 

J2043 is a down train, my typing error, yet again.

 

Sorry.

 

David

Edited January 31, 2017 by DaveF

[great central]

You must see me at Eccles Road from time to time - I always acknowledge the drivers and (most of the time the) guards

Possibly, I'm often reading or maybe still in the train doing tickets, no need to rush with nearly half an hour to or from Thetford

[DavidBird]

I think there are some directional problems. J1565 contradicts J2043. I don't know the area but I would have said the concrete sleepered track was the fast lines in which case J2043 is right and is up on the slow line. Then all the others are wrong. But I stand to be corrected!

 

 

J2043 is on the down fast, i.e. heading towards Trent.

 

Never realised the slow lines were re-laid with flat-bottomed rail & concrete sleepers before the fasts.  Must be because of the pounding they were getting from the heavy trains of swb mineral wagons, while the fasts were mainly bogie coaches. 

 

That's just my guess at the reason, but I stand to be corrected if anybody knows better...

[DaveF]

I hope that I've got "up" and "down" the right was round today.

 

The photos for today are from a set I took at Brookman's Park on a very dull day in March 1977, so I think it was quite mild - it must have been as I was there for some time.

 

 

Brookmans Park Class 55 up ex pass 5th March 77 C3230  1A14 08.40 Halifax/ 08.53 Bradford to Kings X

 

 

Brookmans Park Class 116 down pass 5th March 77 C3232  2P70 Kings X to Cambridge

 

 

Brookmans Park 31227 down pass   5th March 77 C3234  2B64 Kings X to Peterborough

 

 

Brookmans Park 313040 up pass to Moorgate 5th March 77 C3235

 

 

Brookmans Park 313008 up pass 5th March 77 C3239

 

Thanks again to Mark 54 for the train details.

David

Edited February 2, 2017 by DaveF

[Swindon 123]

The DMU in photo C3232 is class 116, David. You can just make out the yellow first class stripe on the middle trailer coach. The arrangement of the MU jumpers also indicates it is 116 as opposed to a class 125. Interesting to note the use of DMU's even though the class 313 electrics had stated in service. Did the 313's start running before the 312's?

 

Paul J. 

[DaveF]

The DMU in photo C3232 is class 116, David. You can just make out the yellow first class stripe on the middle trailer coach. The arrangement of the MU jumpers also indicates it is 116 as opposed to a class 125. Interesting to note the use of DMU's even though the class 313 electrics had stated in service. Did the 313's start running before the 312's?

 

Paul J. 

 

 

Paul,

 

Many thanks for the dmu identification - I am always wary of putting class numbers on 116s and others as they look so similar to me - I never really saw enough to get used to them.

 

The 312s were built from 1975 to 1978, the 313s from 1976 to 1977. (Platform 5 Locos and coaching stock book).

 

So I think the 312s would have been in service first.

 

David

[keefer]

And notice the 313s have a 4-position route indicator despite their build date. Mind you, so did the later 315s!

[Clive Mortimore]

Paul,

 

Many thanks for the dmu identification - I am always wary of putting class numbers on 116s and others as they look so similar to me - I never really saw enough to get used to them.

 

The 312s were built from 1975 to 1978, the 313s from 1976 to 1977. (Platform 5 Locos and coaching stock book).

 

So I think the 312s would have been in service first.

 

David

Hi David

 

From memory the 313s on the inner suburbans to Moorgate via the Metropolitan and Great Northern started before the outer suburban electrics from the Cross itself.

 

The GNR 312s were the last introduced, the LNWR and GER sets entered service in all blue before it was decided they should be in blue-grey. The GNR sets were blue-grey from new.

[mark54]

5th March 1977 was a Saturday.

C3230 - The third coach is Griddle car E1102 which indicates that the train was 1A14 08:40 Halifax / 08:53 Bradford-KX. The train wasn't usually Deltic hauled.

C3232 should then be 2P70 12:04 KX-Cambridge which I believe carried 1st class (although the destination box says Baldock)

C3234 should be 2B64 the 12:30 KX-Peterborough

[Market65]

Hi, Dave. Excellent photo's of the ECML at Brookman's Park from 1977. The ECML certainly has changed over the years. As always I like seeing the Deltic and also the 31 on a passenger service. The class 116  DMU was almost certainly one of those originally fitted with a two character headcode box below the centre windscreen.

 

With warmest regards,

 

Rob.

[50A55B]

The 313s are still scurrying up and down 40 years later though.

[russ p]

Why were 312s and 3s built with headcode blinds after they had officially been done away with?

[Clive Mortimore]

Why were 312s and 3s built with headcode blinds after they had officially been done away with?

I think we have been here before, some lines like the GER suburban lines carried on using them past the 1976 discontinuation of headcodes. The GER used them up until the opening of the new power boxes at Liverpool St, Colchester and Norwich.

[russ p]

Wasn't that about 87? But only for EMUs I take it

[leopardml2341]

C3230 - are we gonna play guess the Deltic again?

 

I'll offer No.12......

[russ p]

There's never been a power box at Norwich by the way, when it was resignalled it's always been controlled from Colchester

[45125]

Why were 312s and 3s built with headcode blinds after they had officially been done away with?

 

They were designed before the abandoning of head codes was even though of....

[45125]

Hi, Dave. Excellent photos of Ratcliffe on Soar. In J2043 the 45's boiler appears to be letting off steam - very nicely captured.

 

With warmest regards,

 

Rob.

 

The boiler is been blown down before turning it off.

[stovepipe]

C3230 - are we gonna play guess the Deltic again?

 

I'll offer No.12......

 

Ok, go on then...

 

Not '12, headcode was plated over by March 1978. Options are 8, 9, 15, or 20 - all single line nameplates, four windscreen wipers with domino headcodes at the time. 15 is reported as being at FP having failed in the morning, 9 worked the 1N10 11:00 King's Cross - Newcastle and 8's nameplate is too long. So I think 55 020.....Napier Chronicles says she was at FP having an exam on Sunday 5th March 1978, but this could have been later in the day. No previous workings are reported. If it is 20, then she has only 25 days left in service.

 

As it was a Sunday then I suggest the working is actually 1A08 08.45 Su Leeds - Kings Cross (from 4 September 1977), which has an RG as third vehicle.

 

Edit: there does seem to be some confusion over the date of the Brookmans Park set - was it 5 March 1977 (a Saturday) or 5 March 1978 (a Sunday)? If it's the former, the above might well be a whole lot of bobbins....

Edited February 2, 2017 by stovepipe

[35A]

Ok, go on then...

 

Not '12, headcode was plated over by March 1978. Options are 8, 9, 15, or 20 - all single line nameplates, four windscreen wipers with domino headcodes at the time. 15 is reported as being at FP having failed in the morning, 9 worked the 1N10 11:00 King's Cross - Newcastle and 8's nameplate is too long. So I think 55 020.....Napier Chronicles says she was at FP having an exam on Sunday 5th March 1978, but this could have been later in the day. No previous workings are reported. If it is 20, then she has only 25 days left in service.

 

 

Agreed. Obviously not 8 - wrong nameplate lettering style, too short and no crest. 9 was otherwise occupied. 15 was at FP all day, apart from an abortive move to Hornsey C.S. when it failed with brake problems and returned to FP.

 

20 was on FP on a 'B' exam from 5th - 10th, as you say, but had previously been recorded on Holbeck on 2nd, so must have worked south at some point over those three days (N.B. only three weeks prior to its effective withdrawal/storage - it never worked again after 30th). Enlarging the picture slightly, I also think that it's 20 - presumably on its up working, prior to exam. I'll forward the picture to Paul and get him to update the Chronicles, if we are all in agreement.

[leopardml2341]

My first thought was indeed '20, but then I convinced myself the nameplate looks a bit too long against the grilles.

 

e.g.https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/5944211312

Edited February 2, 2017 by leopardml2341

[Swindon 123]

Ok, go on then...

 

Not '12, headcode was plated over by March 1978. Options are 8, 9, 15, or 20 - all single line nameplates, four windscreen wipers with domino headcodes at the time. 15 is reported as being at FP having failed in the morning, 9 worked the 1N10 11:00 King's Cross - Newcastle and 8's nameplate is too long. So I think 55 020.....Napier Chronicles says she was at FP having an exam on Sunday 5th March 1978, but this could have been later in the day. No previous workings are reported. If it is 20, then she has only 25 days left in service.

 

As it was a Sunday then I suggest the working is actually 1A08 08.45 Su Leeds - Kings Cross (from 4 September 1977), which has an RG as third vehicle.

 

Edit: there does seem to be some confusion over the date of the Brookmans Park set - was it 5 March 1977 (a Saturday) or 5 March 1978 (a Sunday)? If it's the former, the above might well be a whole lot of bobbins....

 

 

Agreed. Obviously not 8 - wrong nameplate lettering style, too short and no crest. 9 was otherwise occupied. 15 was at FP all day, apart from an abortive move to Hornsey C.S. when it failed with brake problems and returned to FP.

 

20 was on FP on a 'B' exam from 5th - 10th, as you say, but had previously been recorded on Holbeck on 2nd, so must have worked south at some point over those three days (N.B. only three weeks prior to its effective withdrawal/storage - it never worked again after 30th). Enlarging the picture slightly, I also think that it's 20 - presumably on its up working, prior to exam. I'll forward the picture to Paul and get him to update the Chronicles, if we are all in agreement.

Sorry guys you'll have to go back to the guessing game. All the shots I can find of 55020 in 1977/8 show it having lost its sandbox fillers on the nose and the OHL flashes being lower than those in the photo, which still has the sandbox filler and higher OHL flashes as a consequence. See photo in the link. https://flic.kr/p/fU4yc7

 

Back to the drawing board, unless the date of the photo was a much earlier than David thinks. (Unlikely).

 

Paul J.

[35A]

Well spotted, Paul. Absolutely right. I've now done the same check (I didn't think to check the sandbox fillers last night!).

 

Back then to my original thought - I was convinced, before even enlarging the picture, that it was Deltic 9 - but I managed to talk myself out of it after I enlarged the picture slightly.

 

I'm now convinced, by a process of elimination, that my first thought was right. See the following picture:  http://www.napier-chronicles.co.uk/9_25-2-78.htm taken on 25th February. Glass headcode panel, twin wipers, sandbox fillers and OHL flashes. However - this clashes with the reported down working in the Chronicles (no timetables to hand but I can't see the timings working), so the mystery deepens!!!

 

It can't be no 1 - that had already been retired, at Doncaster Plant.

It can't be no 3 - firstly, 3's plate was too short;  secondly, I was actually behind it on our way back from Newton Abbot to Paddington, on the "Deltic Ranger" railtour (rerun) that day.

It can't be no 7 - 7's plate was too short and it had already lost its sandbox fillers.

No 9 - see above.

It can't be no 12 - that had already lost its sandbox fillers and had had its headcode panel plated over - it was also reported in Newcastle the previous night and didn't work back until teatime.

It can't be no 15 - that was failed at FP all day, following an aborted 07:30 attempt to get to Hornsey C.S.

It can't be no 18 - again, that had already lost its sandbox fillers.

It can't be no 20 - for the good logic and evidence that you provided above.

[DaveF]

Ok, go on then...

 

Not '12, headcode was plated over by March 1978. Options are 8, 9, 15, or 20 - all single line nameplates, four windscreen wipers with domino headcodes at the time. 15 is reported as being at FP having failed in the morning, 9 worked the 1N10 11:00 King's Cross - Newcastle and 8's nameplate is too long. So I think 55 020.....Napier Chronicles says she was at FP having an exam on Sunday 5th March 1978, but this could have been later in the day. No previous workings are reported. If it is 20, then she has only 25 days left in service.

 

As it was a Sunday then I suggest the working is actually 1A08 08.45 Su Leeds - Kings Cross (from 4 September 1977), which has an RG as third vehicle.

 

Edit: there does seem to be some confusion over the date of the Brookmans Park set - was it 5 March 1977 (a Saturday) or 5 March 1978 (a Sunday)? If it's the former, the above might well be a whole lot of bobbins....

 

 

Typing error again.  It is 1977.

 

David

[DaveF]

Before I post today's photos can I once again thank those who point out my captioning errors. If the location or date look odd they are probably my typing errors, as are most loco classes (except dmus).  Now and then I type up for down and vice versa.

 

If all the images I post have file numbers which are close to each other then the date should the same for each of them, or at least very near.

 

Train workings are another matter, to those who regularly add information of train identifications and timings thanks very much.

 

Younger followers of this thread may not always realise just how little information was available to most enthusiasts when these photos were taken.  Obviously in pre-internet days there was no Real Time Trains site.  Working timetables were almost impossible to obtain, especially current ones so working out which train was which was often difficult.  It was even hard to obtain details of most special workings.

 

As you know, most of Dad's and my photos were taken by the lineside, not at stations.  

 

We usually had a copy of the latest public timetable and tried to work out the likely passing times for our location from the station times.  Of course if you got it wrong, or trains were out of sequence then you noted everything incorrectly.

 

Even headcode details were hard to obtain, Ian Allan did do an abc of 4 figure headcodes, but in practice it only gave the first two digits - train class and destination area.

 

In other words you generally went out, found a nice location and took photos of whatever turned up.

 

Now for the photos.

 

Today we have photos from visits to Pilmoor in four different years.

 

 

Pilmoor Class 47 D1577 14.00 Kings X to Edinburgh Sept 67 J1130

 

 

Pilmoor Class 108 up pass July70 C231  are the centre coaches Class 101?

 

 

Pilmoor Class 47 Kings X to Edinburgh?? seems to be a special working Aug 75 J4544

 

 

Pilmoor Class 37 37250 up empty coal Feb 83 C5966

 

 

Pilmoor Class 43 43084 down ex pass Feb 83 C5967

 

With thanks again to Mark54.

David

Edited February 2, 2017 by DaveF