Kernow Model Rail Centre to produce GWR 1361 0-6-0 Saddle Tank

[Ozexpatriate]

The Kernow page DOES say GWR but as Miss P posted earlier the photo is probably wartime black and is very ambigious.I'm not sure saddle tanks carried this livery in the main.

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/product/43617/K2204_DJ_Models_060_1361_Steam_Locomotive_number_1364

I've sent a note to Kernow. We'll see what they have to say.

 

EDIT:

On the overview page:

K2204 DJ Models GWR 1361 Class number 1364 in GWR Green livery with Great Western lettering and pristine finish.

 

On the specific product page:

K2204 DJ Models 0-6-0 1361 Steam Locomotive number 1364 in GWR Green livery with GWR lettering.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Ozexpatriate

[Siberian Snooper]

Which of the variations, if any, are closest to 1925 condition. I'm minded to splash the cash on a couple, if there's not too much butchery involved in getting a pair into that era.

[Ozexpatriate]

1363.jpg

Copyright 'Chowells' reproduced in accordance with CC3.0

Andy this is quite a magnificent photograph considering it was taken inside the Didcot shed. Obviously the background was Photoshopped (or equivalent) out. Do you know if this was a tripod shod and was it manipulated or is this the original as shot. The exposure level is terrific and very little of the reflective surfaces are blown out.

 

I have a hand-held shot somewhere of 1363. It's quite a miserable photograph.

 

This one is worthy of a tutorial on how to make steam shed photos pop!

[Andy Y]

It's just the same Wikipedia image as used by Kernow, tidied up, recovered highlights and tweaked.

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/images/prod_43616.jpg

[gwrrob]

Which of the variations, if any, are closest to 1925 condition. I'm minded to splash the cash on a couple, if there's not too much butchery involved in getting a pair into that era.

Mike Stationmaster will know the detail differences as I believe he helped research the model and had hoped the pannier version had come to fruition too but Heljan beat them to it.

[Siberian Snooper]

Mike Stationmaster will know the detail differences as I believe he helped research the model and had hoped the pannier version had come to fruition too but Heljan beat them to it.

I will wait with baited breath for Mike's response, in the mean time any pointers from other Great Western sages are eagerly awaited.

 

SS

[Castle]

You Rang?!

 

The detail difference are quite subtle but none of the 5 were exactly the same. Mostly it is pipework and toolbox positioning but the big changes were that the cab roof was originally of wood and canvas construction and the chimney was shorter. The chimney was made taller as it was found that smoke would not to clear the cab effectively. The wood and canvas cab roof was a common detail that was incorporated on many locomotives in the Churchward era and later phased out. No. 2999 at Didcot really should have a timber and canvas roof too. They do require a LOT more looking after though... Strangely, the positioning of the water filler and breather pipe on No. 1363 was different to that on other locomotives leading some to suggest that it's tank is a recycled item from an earlier loco but there is no direct evidence for this. Mike has chapter and verse on the whole class whereas I am more familiar with the locomotive project I look after.

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[bubbles2]

Here's a good excuse for a GWR liveried 1363 in Cornwall in the early 70s. I guess this was when the GWS was at Bodmin General, I wonder how it got down to St Blazey, towed by a diesel hydraulic in light steam I expect.

 

I seam to remember reading somewhere that the diesel found the trip very easy going!

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/9703983032/in/photolist-fMvs5h-9DtDpo-9DqLuv-ggj9om-nffXNM-nffXUP-a89hEt-fMvseq-fMvrT3-cT215A-9DqTti-97jpeF-9LHg2z-9BVeco-9BSGS6-fHCopg-8ZVbXX-94K9Uu-8Z1LGN-aaQomq-9SjzuG-bThauV-8YXji7-fHCmT4-fHUWtJ-ap6WPo-jhGm5T-frfYvK-9TZwVb-9xSRBm-fzg6NG-9HFFE5-jhExnX-fQEK1E-doPwnt-bsujSG-nswyAP-bsujSQ-cuN4yE-kdVkLX-bBFHW6-doPEkb-gSLMqK-9MM8Dy-gSKz5r-9QB9mn-fHCm9g-caJWnC-9CL153-bBFHWg

[bubbles2]

A bit more info about 1363 in early preservation in Cornwall.

 

https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/pre-b-w-sometime-in-the-60s.34571/

[Stubby47]

Is there an expected delivery date for these ?

 

I.e. how long have I got to save some money / store up some brownie points ?

[Mikkel]

Looks like that chassis (or the Heljan equivalent) could be useful for freelance industrial modellers and the 0-16.5 brigade.

 

Meanwhile for GWR modellers, I wonder if there's potential for conversion to a 1392 class here?

 

Looking in Russell the wheelbase seems to have been the same as the original Cornwall 1392 class, but the 1361 cylinders appear a smidgen longer (or possibly one of the drawings in Russell is a little off scale?). The original tanks on the 1392s seem to have been different from the 1361 class, but the GWR appear to have added a new boiler to at least No. 1395 in 1901.There's a photo in Russell (p. 118 fig 305) of what I assume is the reboilered No. 1395, and this has a two course tank that looks very similar to the 1361 tanks. We need a proper drawing of the reboilered 1392s though.

 

 

Edited to be more precise

Edited August 15, 2014 by Mikkel

[69843]

One more engine from DJModels (and Kernow) to look forward to, and one less set of cash in the wallet!

 

Yet another excellent engine to be modeled, and should be very interesting to compare to the forthcoming Heljan 1366 0-6-0PT

[Horsetan]

....I'll always try and find room for a speaker in every project. If I can fit one in ( and I'm pretty sure where already) I'll put the biggest one I can in....

Just as a bit of fun, can you programme the speaker to say "Caution! Vehicle is reversing"?

[DJM Dave]

Funnily enough I have a picture in my minds eye of one doing this at a show! Lol :-)

[tomparryharry]

I've just checked Mountfords' "Caerphilly Works", to see whether any of the 13xx tanks made it to the valleys. 

 

Sadly, it appears not....

 

However, I can apply modellers licence.....

 

Ian

[cctransuk]

I recall seeing, somewhere in one of my railway videos - probably an Ivo Peters one, a sequence showing Bath Shedmaster Harold Morris visiting, I think, a Bristol shed and being offered a 1361 class (in pristine condition) that was surplus to requirements for transfer to Bath; (sadly he declined the offer).

 

Can anyone confirm which of the class it was, please?

 

Yes, you're right - I'm looking for a 'what if' !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Captain Kernow]

I recall seeing, somewhere in one of my railway videos - probably an Ivo Peters one, a sequence showing Bath Shedmaster Harold Morris visiting, I think, a Bristol shed and being offered a 1361 class (in pristine condition) that was surplus to requirements for transfer to Bath; (sadly he declined the offer).

 

Can anyone confirm which of the class it was, please?

 

Yes, you're right - I'm looking for a 'what if' !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

John - it's in one of the books - I'm also thinking of this possibility, so I'll check it out when I can...

[Ozexpatriate]

I've sent a note to Kernow. We'll see what they have to say.

 

EDIT:

On the overview page:

K2204 DJ Models GWR 1361 Class number 1364 in GWR Green livery with Great Western lettering and pristine finish.

 

On the specific product page:

K2204 DJ Models 0-6-0 1361 Steam Locomotive number 1364 in GWR Green livery with GWR lettering.

Kernow Model Rail Centre promptly replied that item K2204, (number 1364 in GWR Green livery) will be lettered "G W R" as illustrated and added that at this time, they don't know if one will be offered lettered "GREAT WESTERN" in the future.

[jwd]

Kernow Model Rail Centre promptly replied that item K2204, (number 1364 in GWR Green livery) will be lettered "G W R" as illustrated and added that at this time, they don't know if one will be offered lettered "GREAT WESTERN" in the future.

 

Seems a bit silly to do so many liveries and then leave out the one alot of Great Western modellers will want especially when it's common knowledge that shirtbutton models don't sell compared with the other GW liveries.

 

Seems i'll have more money to spend on something else, shame....

[buffalo]

Surely, it would only take a few minutes to remove the shirtbutton and apply GREAT WESTERN transfers?

 

However, before everyone gets too excited, perhaps we should be looking for evidence that any of the class actually carried this lettering? Few, if any, GWR saddle tanks carried it before 1930 and only some thereafter, although it is not a class I know well, I don't recall seeing an example.

 

Does anyone have a photo?

 

Nick

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

I wasn't involved too greatly in the livery bit of the research for this project (I do the nuts and bolts bit!) but I am told that the Great Western Trust had a number of pictures, some dating back to when the 1361s were new. One of the gang that works on the loco is an expert on liveries who has also been through the archive so we got him involved there!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

Edited August 18, 2014 by Castle

[jwd]

Surely, it would only take a few minutes to remove the shirtbutton and apply GREAT WESTERN transfers?

 

That's not the point, i wouldn't dare touch a £100 plus loco with my cack-handed skills.

 

Landscapes i can do, locos are left alone, if it doesn't have the livery from the box i don't buy it.

 

You might scratchbuild and would find transfers trivial, i do not, therfore my point is still valid.

[Mike Riley]

Surely, it would only take a few minutes to remove the shirtbutton and apply GREAT WESTERN transfers?

 

However, before everyone gets too excited, perhaps we should be looking for evidence that any of the class actually carried this lettering? Few, if any, GWR saddle tanks carried it before 1930 and only some thereafter, although it is not a class I know well, I don't recall seeing an example.

 

Does anyone have a photo?

 

Nick

There are two photos in Russell of 1361 in ex-works grey primer.  No lettering but there is lining on cab, bunker and cylinders.  So maybe they didn't have GREAT WESTERN on the tank.  Were there other classes that didn't have a GWR identity on them?

 

So for people who model the pre shirtbutton era they only need to remove the roundel.

 

Mike

[Sidecar Racer]

 I built a DJH 1366 kit and originally used the full Great Western on it , to me

it looked wrong on such a small loco so I changed to the shirtbutton , now I

think it looks better on a loco this size where the shirtbuttton can look lost

on a tender of a 4-6-0 .

 

 But that's just me . 

[buffalo]

...I am told that the Great Western Trust had a number of pictures, some dating back to when the 1361s were new. One of the gang that works on the loco is an expert on liveries who has also been through the archive so we got him involved there!

 

Maybe it was his research that led to Kernow not offering one with GREAT WESTERN, though a plain green one would be possible.

 

There are two photos in Russell of 1361 in ex-works grey primer.  No lettering but there is lining on cab, bunker and cylinders.  So maybe they didn't have GREAT WESTERN on the tank.  Were there other classes that didn't have a GWR identity on them?...

 

Yes, I know those photos, but most of the others I've seen with the short chimney are undated or poorly dated. As I said, it was the norm up to about 1930 for all saddle tank classes not to carry any lettering.

 

Nick