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Ben A

N Gauge Class 390 Pendolino (post Kickstarter) with Rapido

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If the Kickstarter campaign doesn't get enough pledges, Rapido will likely bring this out as a general release, but it would be at least 25% more expensive than what Ben and Mike are offering it for. Fewer people will be able to afford the full 9-car or 11-car train.

 

Now that to me is very good news that Rapido may be willing to take a punt on this as a general release item.

 

I am still very much hopeful that the kickstarter will be successful so that we can get a nice priced model but if it doesn't at least we still have the hope that I will come.

 

Looking forwards to putting down for my models as soon as I can. Going to be signing up for kickstarter so that I can do it straight away!

 

Alistair

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Hello all,

 

For those of us who want a Pendolino it is good news that Rapido are seriously thinking about producing the model anyway, even if the Kickstarter campaign does not succeed.

 

However, as Jason says the costs will be higher - as an example the 9-car model without sound will be approaching £320 instead of the £255 we are planning. 

 

So really, if you want a Pendolino and you want to save £65 then it still makes sense to pledge to the Kickstarter campaign, plus of course as I have said repeatedly (and apologies to those who've read this before!) if the Kickstarter campaign is successful then it creates a wonderful precedent for modellers coming together to get what they want, and not just being dictated to by the manufacturers, no matter how benevolent they may be!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited by Ben A
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£95 seems an utter steal for sound! Assuming one fits two fairly modest (non-sound) decoders you'd add £50 to the cost straight off, so if you're DCC it's really 'only' £45 or so for sound!

 

I've never considered sound, but at that price it seems rude not to!

Edited by njee20

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Hello all,

 

For those of us who want a Pendolino it is good news that Rapido are seriously thinking about producing the model anyway, even if the Kickstarter campaign does not succeed.

 

However, as Jason says the costs will be higher - as an example the 9-car model without sound will be approaching £320 instead of the £255 we are planning. 

 

So really, if you want a Pendolino and you want to save £65 then it still makes sense to pledge to the Kickstarter campaign, plus of course as I have said repeatedly (and apologies to those who've read this before!) if the Kickstarter campaign is successful then it creates a wonderful precedent for modellers coming together to get what they want, and not just being dictated to by the manufacturers, no matter how benevolent they may be!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Hi Ben,

 

If Jason is going to do it anyway, could I suggest walking away from it and doing one for another project?

You and Mike could probably put your heads together for a decent DMU or EMU using Kickstarter methinks.

 

Just a thought

Dave

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Hi Dave,

 

I can see what you're saying - and I did think about this - but there is a broader principle at stake here in that, like you, I really believe in the Kickstarter methodology for driving new developments. 

 

With all the publicity we have generated around this scheme I think we would be silly not to see it through now, especially as Mike has this morning submitted the proposal (though it can be halted at any time.)  

 

I would assume that were Jason to do it with Rapido as a stand-alone he would open up the scheme for pre-order (like the APT-E) but would not proceed if there was not enough interest, leaving us back at square one.

 

And, if this scheme *does* succeed, it will really put Kickstarter on the map and create a wonderful precedent for other projects between groups of likeminded modellers and receptive and dynamic manufacturers.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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If there is the possibility of an emu may I suggest an Electrostar or Javelin?

Gerry

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Electrostar would be the 'obvious' choice I guess, given variants, geographical coverage etc. But it just doesn't have the same iconic appeal - I can imagine people (such as Roundhouse) plumping for a Pendo and exercising 'rule 1' in a way that I just can't imagine someone doing with a Southern 377...

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Electrostar would be the 'obvious' choice I guess, given variants, geographical coverage etc. But it just doesn't have the same iconic appeal - I can imagine people (such as Roundhouse) plumping for a Pendo and exercising 'rule 1' in a way that I just can't imagine someone doing with a Southern 377...

I would certainly have 377's in Southern liveryand build a layout with sound... 'Southern apologies for the late running of this service due to (insert one of many options)'. If it were a tape it would have been replaced many times by now (some sympathy for them as its normally a signal failure) :locomotive:

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Yes, perhaps a poor example, knowing where you live (and why it was the first example that sprung to my mind), but you know what I mean I'm sure!

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Actually the Electrostar a are one of the more comfortable commuter trains and they also. Look good especially in Southern livery The Pendolino also looks very good although I would not necessarily rate their comfort as much.

All personal tastes though.

 

Still looking forward to seeing this succeed

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Hello all,

 

I rode a Pendolino to Manchester recently and I was a little disappointed at the small size of the windows but I do appreciate that is a safety feature and designed to increase structural integrity and crash-worthiness.

 

The overhead racks are very small, and the vehicles do feel narrower than I am used to at shoulder level, but this again is a structural feature around the tilt profile.  I also would not want to be one of the poor saps in the seats with literally no view at all, though on a half empty train I noticed some people specifically chose those seats, so maybe it's less of an issue for others.

 

The actual ride I found very smooth and comfortable.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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Ben,

 

Some Pendolino coaches have restricted size racks, there must be something in the ceiling either in some or all coaches that results in this.

 

They are quite carmped inside I agree, better than a Voyager though nothing beats the ambience of an early mark 3 coach and we still miss them on the WCML.

 

But for me flying through Rugby is the highlight of any trip, I get disappointed if I get one that has to slow or stop there.

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I personally would prefer it to continue as a crowd-funded project for two reasons. The main one being the funders essentially get a model without paying model shop/manufacturer margin, and secondly the manufacturer has to be committed once the funding is received whereas they may put it down the pecking order as a standalone project if low sales are expected (thinking Dapol 59, 92 etc)

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The way I have read Jason's reply is, to make use of the kickstarter as a bit of market research.

 

If the project brings in 50% of funding then Jason can decide whether the project will sell at the higher price and produce it. But it all depends on the kickstarter being run.

 

I think that the best plan is it continue with the kickstarter and see what comes of it, hopefully it works and we will get a very good model at an exceedingly good price.

 

Alistair

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Hi Ash, Ali,

 

I think you're both absolutely right.  Mike Hale put it well I thought on the NG Forum, when he wrote:

 

"I think the key message from me is that if you want a Pendolino (and at a bargain price) then please, please back the Kickstarter campaign - if it gets funding you get a bargain and if it doesn't you lose nothing."

 

Incidentally, a couple of other people I have spoken to have said that they feel Jason's comments make the Kickstarter campaign more, not less, likely to succeed for the simple reason that the feeling of uncertainty or risk (albeit unnecessary) has been removed:  Now it becomes simply a deadline to get a cheaper deal.  And of course, if you hold back but the Kickstarter succeeds then not only will you pay more, but you'll have to wait at least two years as Rapido have agreed not to do another run for that period of time.

 

Unless, of course, you can't wait and end up getting one from a Kickstarter pledger on ebay - at a ludicrously inflated price!!  ;-)

 

cheers

 

Ben A.
 

Edited by Ben A

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I would assume that were Jason to do it with Rapido as a stand-alone he would open up the scheme for pre-order (like the APT-E) but would not proceed if there was not enough interest, leaving us back at square one.

 

Ben's summed it up nicely.  The Kickstarter campaign needs sales of 800 trains.

 

Say the sales reach only 700 trains - then I know we can try it as a regular release. 

 

But if the sales are only 200 trains, then we wouldn't touch the project with a 25kV cantilever mast....

 

And remember - a regular release Pendolino would be much more expensive. There's your argument for the Kickstarter campaign right there.  

 

So my advice: if you want this train, buy it through Kickstarter.

 

-Jason

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Say the sales reach only 700 trains - then I know we can try it as a regular release. 

 

Hi

 

What would happen in this instance as Kickstarter is all or nothing?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

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That's the point Paul - if they get 700 (for example) Rapido will consider developing it as part of their regular portfolio. But it'll take longer and cost more.

 

Actually the Electrostar a are one of the more comfortable commuter trains and they also. Look good especially in Southern livery The Pendolino also looks very good although I would not necessarily rate their comfort as much.

I was commenting on the viability and appeal of it as a model rather than the comfort of the prototype. Agree Pendos in standard aren't great - the windowside armrest (or lack thereof) annoys me. First is very nice though.

 

But my point with the Electrostar was that i can't see many people 'bending the rules' to run one when it's clearly out of place, unlike a Pendo. We digress though.

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Hi Paul,

 

With Kickstarter it's all or nothing.  Once the page goes live we can all see how many pledges have been made, and the running total.  Bu these are only pledges - no money will have been taken from anyone.  At the deadline (probably around mid January) people will either have pledged enough or they won't. 

 

If the total has been reached then the following week Kickstarter will collect the pledged money and transfer it to the account Mike and I have opened ready; and we will then start paying as per an agreed timetable for the laser scan, CAD work to start, tooling to begin etc.

 

In subsequent weeks we will invite our backers to vote on the unit identities, we'll send them CAD drawings, and so on.

 

If the total wasn't reached then the project fails and that is that.  No money is taken.  But of course like everyone Jason will have been keeping an eye on the totals and if we are close he can take the view that it's worth going ahead - bearing in mind he now has to find the £250k to tool and produce the model.  And if we are not close he won't.

 

So in reality the position has not changed; N gauge modellers still need to step up, get involved and show their interest.  And it won' even cost them anything - at least, not if the project fails.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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The Pendo was high on my list anyway, despite previous worries about financial timing I was going to forgo ordering one, and this is nothing against Dave, but it has now leap up into my 'must have' list.

I have an APT-E on preorder, and will Back the Pendo not only because I want one, but hopefully to encourage Jason to shrink the E train one day...

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Hi,

Looking forward to this getting underway. My pledge will be for enough to make an 11car set (no DCC no sound) and maybe just maybe the move to Rapido will bring more pledges. They have a track record ('scuse the pun........). And as a personal choice regarding names I'd love the possiblity of a " City of ********** " version

 

It has to be successful..............

 

es grüßt

PC

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I have to admit, the pledge period of 60 days for 800 (or 1000) units sounds rather short to my mind , I hope news to all those a who want one, will get round to them according on time and wish all the best.

Edited by JSpencer

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Unfortunately 60 days is the longest Kickstarter allows. In fact they have some stats about the shorter the better (they advise 30 days or less) - I guess on the grounds it focuses the mind.

 

Ben and I have put as much effort as we can (with the kind help of lots of people - modellers and magazine editors) into "pre-publicising" the campaign.

 

Cheers, Mike

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I have to admit, the pledge period of 60 days for 800 (or 1000) units sounds rather short to my mind I hope news to all those a who want one, will get round to them according on time and wish all the best.

 

Yes, you're right.

 

I don't think it should be too long before the pledge period begins.

 

Virgin love the idea of the N-gauge "baby Pendo" to go with its Hornby big brother, and talked to me today about the benefits of publicising on Twitter and other social media - they have over 100,000 followers so that might hopefully generate interest, but I think pointless to start going down that road until the Kickstarter is actually live.

 

Also, once we do go live on Kickstarter, the clock really will be ticking.  At the moment it's looking like the pledge period will end on or around January 20th.  We will try to do all we can to ensure any communication emphasises the immediacy of that date, and the need to pledge by then, even if money will not be taken until later, and even then only if the full target is reached.

 

To that end we are looking for ideas and volunteers for "guerrilla marketing" to get the word out - through social media and forums, and also with more traditional leaflets etc. Ideally we want every single modern N gauge layout (or, indeed, any N gauge layout) to have some leaflets on it at shows between now and January.

 

I am hoping the NGS stand at Warley will have leaflets - but if not Jason will be just round the corner on the Locomotion stand.

 

I really think that for this to succeed we have to go beyond the N-gauge modellers who want a Pendolino for the WCML layouts and reach out to Rule 1 modellers, collectors, people who just fancy something nice for the mantlepiece or who admire iconic trains.  For this reason we would welcome any further ideas for spreading the word - is anyone a member of a collectors' forum?

 

Please PM me if you can help with any of the above!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited by Ben A
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I have already bombarded facebook on all of the n gauge and modern image pages that I am a member of.

 

When you get the new leaflets can you send me a few, we are at the Canterbury show just before the finish date, so I can put leaflets out then to try and pick up some last minute backers.

 

Alistair

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