Hornby announce SR 58' Maunsell Rebuilt Ex-LSWR Coaches

[Gilwell Park]

Hi.  Similar problem on one of mine. Check that the brake shoes are not touching the flanges or treads.  Slight pressure cured the problem.

 

Roger

[Wickham Green]

Received mine direct from Hornby Thursday, Green versions, they don't derail anywhere, however they are not free running like the corridor Maunsells, some wheels don't turn and others are free wheeling even on same bogie.  Have Two brakes and one ordinary.  Will have a look this week.  Strikes me the machining is wrong somewhere, can't be bothered to contact Hornby as I do not think it could be resolved, re-manufacturing issue.  Not to Hornby's usual standards.  

 

Will post some pics this week, and do a vid for utube.  These were bought to go with my Kernow IOW O2's, as near as dammit being to what the coaches were like that I can remember from holidays to Sandown in the 60's on IOW.

 

EDIT: also noticed this morning small blobs of oil on whwwls which are the ones that don't turn.

.

The factory certainly splashed oil about on these coaches though I don't recollect any on the corridor stock : the bogie pivots and bearing holes were swimming on mine. No problems with jammed wheels, though .... try taking the offending axles out and measuring them - or just swap to see if re-bedding the bearings sorts them.

[Wickham Green]

Yes, I missed the pic on page 541!  The leading coach seems to be a lav'y third to diagram 32, Nos. 5-16, though half of them would be uprated to diag. 287 lav'y compos in 1939.  The second coach is probably also a 58ft rebuild, I suspect a diag. 31 lav'y third. 

 

I've often wondered about the numerous electric rebuilds of pre-group stock not having the triangular fillet.  I can't prove it but the logical answer would be that the 62ft electric underframe was narrower than the standard 'steam' 58ft.  After all it was specifically designed for EMU use and the SR always intended to make the vast majority of "3 SUBs" utilising 8ft wide pre-Grouping bodies.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

Occurred to me over the weekend that the 46'6'' rebuilds were contemporary with the first batch of 'Van B's and I'd always assumed that the frames would have been the same ( other than length ) .... yet the vans were definitely on narrower chassis !

[Edwardian]

I decided to get to the bottom of the question of whether these coaches could be back-dated to their un-rebuilt state, which, after all, represents the majority of their existence in service. 

 

It looks like a challenge.  Overall costs-wise, the need for new underframes, buffers, and bogies on top of the RTR price is likely to make the project top the £54.50 of a Roxey kit. Then again, the Roxey kits require the time and skill of etched brass construction throughout.

 

Only the bodies can be used, it seems.  One essential, if tricky, modification, would be to trim away the triangular rain strip at the bottom of the sides. 

 

The Southern diagram 31 started life, if I understand correctly, as a 48' Third of 1894.  This was extended by 1 third class compartment and the lavatory section.  Provided one is prepared to do a cut and shut, this centre section could be removed.

 

The Southern diagram 418 seems to have started life as a 48' Composite of 1898.  Clearly the brake end is a modern steel plated accretion.  Work back from there and you have 2 former second class compartments, the lav. and a further second, then first, lav, first, first, all as per the original.  So, here you just need to saw the nasty modern end brake section off, whilst trying to preserve the panelled end!

 

I recall someone made white-metal 8' Fox bogies in 4mm - ABS? 247 Developments? - unfortunately these are exactly the sort of useful accessories that are becoming increasingly unavailable these days.

 

The MJT GCR Fox bogies are purely cosmetic sides and look, to me, a trifle heavy for the LSWR type.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Edwardian

[chris45lsw]

I decided to get to the bottom of the question of whether these coaches could be back-dated to their un-rebuilt state, which, after all, represents the majority of their existence in service. 

 

It looks like a challenge.  Overall costs-wise, the need for new underframes, buffers, and bogies on top of the RTR price is likely to make the project top the £54.50 of a Roxey kit. Then again, the Roxey kits require the time and skill of etched brass construction throughout.

 

Only the bodies can be used, it seems.  One essential, if tricky, modification, would be to trim away the triangular rain strip at the bottom of the sides. 

 

The Southern diagram 31 started life, if I understand correctly, as a 48' Third of 1894.  This was extended by 1 third class compartment and the lavatory section.  Provided one is prepared to do a cut and shut, this centre section could be removed.

 

The Southern diagram 418 seems to have started life as a 48' Composite of 1898.  Clearly the brake end is a modern steel plated accretion.  Work back from there and you have 2 former second class compartments, the lav. and a further second, then first, lav, first, first, all as per the original.  So, here you just need to saw the nasty modern end brake section off, whilst trying to preserve the panelled end!

 

I recall someone made white-metal 8' Fox bogies in 4mm - ABS? 247 Developments? - unfortunately these are exactly the sort of useful accessories that are becoming increasingly unavailable these days.

 

The MJT GCR Fox bogies are purely cosmetic sides and look, to me, a trifle heavy for the LSWR type.

Chopping the brake end off the diag. 99 brake third would also give you a diag. 12 48ft third.  Though it's a moot point whether refitting the coach end to that or cutting the middle out of a diag. 31 gives less work overall.  Then, of course, you end up with your 48ft diag. 12 thirds and 48ft diag. 263 lav'y compos but no brake thirds to go with them!

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas  

[Edwardian]

Chopping the brake end off the diag. 99 brake third would also give you a diag. 12 48ft third.  Though it's a moot point whether refitting the coach end to that or cutting the middle out of a diag. 31 gives less work overall.  Then, of course, you end up with your 48ft diag. 12 thirds and 48ft diag. 263 lav'y compos but no brake thirds to go with them!

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas  

 

Indeed, and I am assuming that the exercise is more expensive than simply buying the Roxeys.

 

Shame.

 

Part of it is that I want to be able to use these coaches, as they look to be very good models.

 

I look at all that crisp panelling and those tall LSWR torpedo vents and think, "What a waste! What a shame!" 

 

Alas, Hornby did not have pre-Groupers in mind (again!), when looking to produce ex-LSWR kit.

 

Sadly, they must be consigned to the Useless Box, along with the T9, Class 700 and Kernow's Gate Stock.

[Wickham Green]

BEWARE ! ........... dismantled my three Lavvy thirds a few days ago and have now noticed that the lamp irons at one end of each are badly bent - the lamp irons moulded on the headstocks ........... I can't see how I could have caused that damage while dismantling so I suspect that they were trapped when the bodies were put on in the factory ( not clever design - for once solid mouldings on the body end might have been better ) ................... suggest everyone checks theirs ! ( Though you might just prove that it WAS my clumsy mits ! )

[Hilux5972]

Please tell me the very bright colours are just a symptom of my screen.

[chris45lsw]

Please tell me the very bright colours are just a symptom of my screen.

 

Please tell me the very bright colours are just a symptom of my screen.

Do you mean the BR red or SR green, or both?  In the flesh I would say the green is probably 'right' but, to my mind, the red isn't bright enough!

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Hilux5972]

The pics seem to have gone but the coaches seemed almost like green on my screen. It could just well be my screen.

[Wickham Green]

The pics seem to have gone but the coaches seemed almost like green on my screen. It could just well be my screen.

If you keep having these halucinations and the tablets don't help .............

[Guest]

Resprayed my green ones to BR SR green, put proper roco close couplings on, not the supplied Hornby roco style.  Kept the lettering by careful masking.

 

Video here :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Eq5GF9SLG0

with sound from Calbourne recorded this August.

 

Pics below

Edited September 9, 2016 by Guest

[coachmann]

I recall someone made white-metal 8' Fox bogies in 4mm - ABS? 247 Developments? - unfortunately these are exactly the sort of useful accessories that are becoming increasingly unavailable these days.

 

The MJT GCR Fox bogies are purely cosmetic sides and look, to me, a trifle heavy for the LSWR type.

I produced 'Fox' style LSWR bogies in the early 1980's Larriparts range. Gary at 247 has recently ceased production of such parts and may in fact be retiring(?) Westward Models had them for a while, then Holt Model Railways I think, then Chuffers. Davids Coaches & Castings had them too. I handmade the brass patterns without use of etchings, but while they were not to today's exacting standards, they were useful and were part of quite a large range of coach fittings. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by coachmann

[Wickham Green]

I produced 'Fox' style LSWR bogies in the early 1980's Larriparts range. Gary at 247 has recently ceased production of such parts and may in fact be retiring(?) Westward Models had them for a while, then Holt Model Railways I think, then Chuffers. Davids Coaches & Castings had them too. I handmade the brass patterns without use of etchings, but while they were not to today's exacting standards, they were useful and were part of quite a large range of coach fittings. 

Developments on 247 ! ........ the business has changed hands : details in the latest M.R.J.

[SRman]

A slightly gratuitous short video showing my 'other' two Hornby modified ex-LSWR coaches in crimson as loose coaches attached to set 105 (in green), hauled by my newly converted to sound Hornby S15.

[devonseasider]

If anyone's looking for the BR versions of these (they're like rocking horse droppings in this part of the world) I know that Arcadia at Shaw still have stocks of some (perhaps all) varieties, as have Trident Trains of Nantwich.

Don't know about the green ones.

 

No connection with either of these establishments.

[Ian Hargrave]

Hi.  Similar problem on one of mine. Check that the brake shoes are not touching the flanges or treads.  Slight pressure cured the problem.

 

Roger

Not the most free running coaches,are they ? My O2 does not like them.

[toboldlygo]

Not the most free running coaches,are they ? My O2 does not like them.

 

My O2 doesn't like them either - however everything else pulls them with ease (including all three Adams Radials - of which only one is modified)

[Ian Hargrave]

My O2 doesn't like them either - however everything else pulls them with ease (including all three Adams Radials - of which only one is modified)

Haven't tried my Radial with them yet but I will tomorrow ..after the wasp spray has taken effect in the loft.Should be ok as it's haulage capability is excellent.The wheel sets on the coaches seem flawed in some way and I can't see an easy fix.Any thoughts welcome.tbh.

[darren01]

Hi

I have a set of these and they drag a lot, oiled wheel bearings, helped a little, But not much.

As Ian has said I can not see a way to make these freer runners?, with out replacing the whole bogie?.

Darren

[Dunsignalling]

Haven't tried my Radial with them yet but I will tomorrow ..after the wasp spray has taken effect in the loft.Should be ok as it's haulage capability is excellent.The wheel sets on the coaches seem flawed in some way and I can't see an easy fix.Any thoughts welcome.tbh.

I fitted 14mm Romfords to mine, a smidge smaller that the originals, to see if it would make a difference and they do run a lot easier. They still won't roll away on their own but they are free enough in my view so I've left them in place rather than spend any more time fiddling.

 

One of my pair was a markedly stiffer pull than the other which is why I started to look for a cause rather than expecting them to loosen up with use (which, of course, might have happened). Comparing the bogies with those fitted to my Maunsell corridor stock, some of the mouldings look less "crisp" and I suspect the main cause to be the bearing taper therein not quite matching the ends of the axles.

 

If you have any of these, the best test would be to swap wheelsets from a known good runner into one of the new coaches and see if it makes a difference. If it does, it's the wheels, if it doesn't, it's the bogies.

 

John

Edited September 23, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Ian Hargrave]

Hi

I have a set of these and they drag a lot, oiled wheel bearings, helped a little, But not much.

As Ian has said I can not see a way to make these freer runners?, with out replacing the whole bogie?.

Darren

Thanks Darren,I've already done that and it hasn't made any difference to their running at all I'm sorry to say..They are beautiful coaches with exquisite detail with an Achilees heel...in this case the bogie design.This is both frustrating and annoying and appears to be endemic,judging from the responses on this forum.Is there a fix or is it back to Hornby for their response?

[Ian Hargrave]

I fitted 14mm Romfords to mine, a smidge smaller that the originals, to see if it would make a difference. They do run a lot easier, though they still won't roll away on their own and I've left them in place rather than spending any more time fiddling.

 

One of my pair was a markedly stiffer pull than the other which is why I started to look for a cause rather than expecting them to loosen up with use (which, of course, might have happened). Comparing the bogies with those fitted to my Maunsell corridor stock, some of the mouldings look less "crisp" and I suspect the main cause is to be the bearing surfaces therein not quite matching the ends of the axles.

 

If you have any of these, the best test would be to swap wheelsets from a known good runner into one of the new coaches and see if it makes a difference. If it does, it's the wheels, if it doesn't, it's the bogies.

 

John

Thans John,our posts crossed.Yes one of the pair of set 42(?) drags markedly worse than its twin,so much so that the back end coach is propelled forward on its own momentum at certain points on the track...a curve,of course.So then,where do we go from here ?

[The Bigbee Line]

Am I the only person in the world that likes vehicles that are not free running? I'll try mine later today and report.

[Dunsignalling]

Thans John,our posts crossed.Yes one of the pair of set 42(?) drags markedly worse than its twin,so much so that the back end coach is propelled forward on its own momentum at certain points on the track...a curve,of course.So then,where do we go from here ?

Just as a matter of interest, which of yours is the stiffer pull?

 

In my case it's the lavatory brake compo and, whilst fitting the Romfords has improved matters, it's still not as free-running as the brake third.

 

John