Hornby announce SR 58' Maunsell Rebuilt Ex-LSWR Coaches

[bertiedog]

No working camera at present, stuck indoors for the moment, so ordered new charger via ebay..........strict ration on the remaining charge till it comes.

 

Stephen

[coachmann]

I don't know if anyone produces etched sides for converted coaches, but it would surely be simpler to fit such things and modify the interior to suit rather than completely butcher plastic.

[Wickham Green]

Thank you for that - major surgery is not on my agenda, but perhaps somebody might fill that niche with a RTR model of a driving trailer- based on any of the pregrouping panelled stock.

 

Mike

I'm crossing my fingers very firmly in the direction of set No.660 appearing at some time in the dim and distant future  -  though how long it would take in the drawing office is anybody's guess as the non Pull & Push originals have been stuck there for AGES !

 

Sorry : off topic ...... wrong south of Thames railway !

[Ozexpatriate]

( Interesting the word 'station' is used rather than 'depot' you'd expect in the 'States ..... pronounced dee-po, of course ! ) 

Because a train is never in a depot.

 

It is my understanding that the depot is essentially a goods shed - that often doubles as a ticket office and, in western movies, the telegraph office. The term refers to the structure. If it is strictly a goods shed it would be a freight depot.

 

Station is the normal term. Think Penn Central Station, Grand Central Station (the building is properly Grand Central Terminal), Union Station, etc.  Here's a great picture showing conventional usage with contemporary signage.

 

Inevitably "train station".   where you will find stationary trains.

 

You may all have your apoplectic attack now that I used that utterance.

 

One of these days I need to load up a train with envelopes (a gondola might work) and pens (on a log car) and photograph it with the caption "stationery train".

Edited August 15, 2016 by Ozexpatriate

[rovex]

I did once have to point out at work that according to someone's handwritten sign the stationery had been put in a non moving (stationary) cupboard

[autocoach]

Because a train is never in a depot.

 

It is my understanding that the depot is essentially a goods shed - that often doubles as a ticket office and, in western movies, the telegraph office. The term refers to the structure. If it is strictly a goods shed it would be a freight depot.

 

Station is the normal term. Think Penn Central Station, Grand Central Station (the building is properly Grand Central Terminal), Union Station, etc.  Here's a great picture showing conventional usage with contemporary signage.

 

Inevitably "train station".   where you will find stationary trains.

 

You may all have your apoplectic attack now that I used that utterance.

 

One of these days I need to load up a train with envelopes (a gondola might work) and pens (on a log car) and photograph it with the caption "stationery train".

Way off topic but I cannot let it go uncorrected.

 

The train is at the depot not in the depot even if it was a covered depot. "Depot" to my very localized reference (Southern Pacific in California) referred to the station building itself whether passenger or combination passenger-freight. Station was more vague referring to the complex of track, passenger and freight house buildings. I can reference Henry E. Benders Southern Pacific Lines Standard-Design Depots (Signature Press) for my usage.  But again that is SP specific. Other parts of the US/Canada will differ in usage.  Also terminology seemed to vary with major locations such as San Francisco and Los Angeles, Oakland and Sacramento depot buildings always being called stations.

 

For example the depot at the Walnut Creek Station May 4, 1947. I live just over the hillock in the background.

Edited August 15, 2016 by autocoach

[45568]

A couple of images of my green brake composite after 'Nationalisation'!

SR markings removed with Brasso, replaced by BR{S} numbers from HMRS sheet. 'First' sausages on the windows by Modelmaster. and a couple of coats of 'Pledge'.

 I left the window markings in situ as they have proved very difficult to remove on other models without spoiling the glazing.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[Robin Brasher]

There is a black and white picture of brake 3rd no 2639 from set 45 at Lyme Regis in June 1948 on plate 128 on page 120 of An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches by Mike King. From the lettering and the position of the word "Southern" it looks like this was in malachite green livery.

 

I wonder who will be the first person to repaint their coaches in this livery or in malachite green as seen in early British Railways days or whether Hornby will get there first.

[Wickham Green]

There is a black and white picture of brake 3rd no 2639 from set 45 at Lyme Regis in June 1948 on plate 128 on page 120 of An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches by Mike King. From the lettering and the position of the word "Southern" it looks like this was in malachite green livery.

 

I wonder who will be the first person to repaint their coaches in this livery or in malachite green as seen in early British Railways days or whether Hornby will get there first.

If 'SOUTHERN' is on the waist and it has numbers on the doors it's in malachite STYLE livery ..... but it COULD still be in Maunsell green.

[railroadbill]

Way off topic but I cannot let it go uncorrected.

 

The train is at the depot not in the depot even if it was a covered depot. "Depot" to my very localized reference (Southern Pacific in California) referred to the station building itself whether passenger or combination passenger-freight. Station was more vague referring to the complex of track, passenger and freight house buildings. I can reference Henry E. Benders Southern Pacific Lines Standard-Design Depots (Signature Press) for my usage.  But again that is SP specific. Other parts of the US/Canada will differ in usage.  Also terminology seemed to vary with major locations such as San Francisco and Los Angeles, Oakland and Sacramento depot buildings always being called stations.

 

For example the depot at the Walnut Creek Station May 4, 1947. I live just over the hillock in the background.

Definitely    but is the   building still there or is that where the BART station is now?

There is a black and white picture of brake 3rd no 2639 from set 45 at Lyme Regis in June 1948 on plate 128 on page 120 of An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches by Mike King. From the lettering and the position of the word "Southern" it looks like this was in malachite green livery.

 

I wonder who will be the first person to repaint their coaches in this livery or in malachite green as seen in early British Railways days or whether Hornby will get there first.

Hopefully Hornby  - as soon as possible!

[railroadbill]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of the loose coaches were latervPull Push fitted and ending up in number of Pull Push sets as replacement coaches as trailer cars rather then driving cars.

 

I believe there were two diagram 31 and six diagram 97s so converted.

Are there particular types of driving cars that these converted trailer cars would have been paired with? Presumably the Hornby converted Maunsell brake driving cars would be too late in period?

[phil-b259]

A quick question for those with access to the necessary reference material, I wish to renumber one of my R4720 (Nine Compartment Lavatory Third) to something else, can anyone suggest a suitable running number? (it will be staying in SR olive livery)

[Robin Brasher]

There are 38 lavatory thirds built to diagram 31 to chose from.

 

They started at 169, then 173 and 175 and ended at 513. The Southern did not number them consecutively.

 

For further information please see the table on page 80 of Maunsell's SR Steam Passenger Stock 1923-1939 by David Gould.

[Oldddudders]

There are 38 lavatory thirds built to diagram 31 to chose from.

 

They started at 169, then 173 and 175 and ended at 513. The Southern did not number them consecutively.

 

For further information please see the table on page 80 of Maunsell's SR Steam Passenger Stock 1923-1939 by David Gould.

In quoting page numbers from Gould, Robin, you need to specify which edition. Your reference is to the 1978 original. In the 2000 version, this data is on page 147, under Appendix 2.

[GreenGiraffe22]

Took a couple more photos today, just because

Been busy the past week or so and haven't really had time to play trains ;] Still really enjoying the carriages

 

 

 

 

I uploaded a video to Twitter too, also had the 700 running on goods, giving my South Eastern layout a rather South Westerly feel  As usual Twitter has destroyed the video quality... 

https://twitter.com/GreenGiraffe22/status/765501284904497152

I did try and embed the video into this post but this forum doesn't like Twitter's html coding 

[Graham_Muz]

A quick question for those with access to the necessary reference material, I wish to renumber one of my R4720 (Nine Compartment Lavatory Third) to something else, can anyone suggest a suitable running number? (it will be staying in SR olive livery)

Hi the running numbers for the Diagram 31 loose nine compartment lav thirds were as follows:

 

169/73/5/81/4/7/8/94,

204/8/17/9/25/31/53/67/8/80/4/90/1/9,

304/13/20/6/9/53/60/1/4/73/82/7/94

403/76,

513

 

Just you just love the SR numbering system for these conversions.

 

It should also be noted for those modelling the later BR(s) period that numbers 219 and 373 ended up in pull push sets from 1958

 

For completeness and slightly simpler the Diagram 98 loose compartment lag brake thirds were as follows:

 

2625-9

[autocoach]

Definitely    but is the   building still there or is that where the BART station is now?

Hopefully Hornby  - as soon as possible!

This is all way off topic. Except that my Set 45 of Hornby Maunsell rebuilds runs on my summer 1947 model of Padstow which is of course located in Walnut Creek and for the moment is the only place I have to run the HO equipment for the eventual Walnut Creek Station area layout I am planning. How's that for a loose connection. I have seen photo's of Set 44 in malachite in 1950 in Padstow. I will probably buy a malachite set to number 44 when Hornby make it hopefully next year. 

 

The old WC station site is now covered by the very large multi-story Broadway Plaza shopping center.  The depot building was moved in the 1970's about 200 yards south and 100 feet east and is currently used as a high end steak restaurant. Track was removed in early 1980's.   The right of way is now a bike/walking trail known as the "Iron Horse Trail".  The junction of local creeks just north of the station area was undergrounded beneath the shopping center and a flood bypass created.  None of the area looks like it did in 1947. The hills are are mostly covered with new growth "urban forest" put in by developers in the 1960-1990 period.  Australians would be reminded of home by the large numbers of eucalyptus/gum trees now up to 150 feet in height,   

 

The SP WC depot building is about 1.5 miles from BART station. BART does not follow the old SP line at all but does use part of the former Oakland Antioch and Eastern Railway (not railroad) right of way.  The OA&E was an electrified line that built an early 20th century tunnel through the Oakland hills. One could ride by ferries from SF to Oakland, through the hills and on to a ferry over the Sacramento river and then on to Sacramento and eventually Chico some 150 miles north as part of the Sacramento Northern Railway. For a brief period 1939-41electrified trains crossed the bay on the lower deck of the Bay Bridge. It took a good 12 hour to get to Chico this way.  Also after the OA&E, arrived in Walnut Creek with a direct route to SF, SP discontinued passenger service on the San Ramon branch. The photo shows an excursion/fail fan train in 1947. 

 

I will continue this off topic discussion about the WC station and central Contra Costa County railroads and railways on my layout topic. See http://www.rmweb.co....e-line-padstow/ should anyone be interested.

Edited August 16, 2016 by autocoach

[Wickham Green]

Hi the running numbers for the Diagram 31 loose nine compartment lav thirds were as follows:

 

169/73/5/81/4/7/8/94,

204/8/17/9/25/31/53/67/8/80/4/90/1/9,

304/13/20/6/9/53/60/1/4/73/82/7/94

403/76,

513

 

Just you just love the SR numbering system for these conversions.

 

It should also be noted for those modelling the later BR(s) period that numbers 219 and 373 ended up in pull push sets from 1958

 

For completeness and slightly simpler the Diagram 98 loose compartment lag brake thirds were as follows:

 

2625-9

The numbering 'system' was just the existing numbers of the original L.S.W.R. coaches that were converted - so you can blame the pre-grouping Company ! Assuming you're lookoing for a 'loose' coach number you might like to check out Gould's S.E.C.R. coaches book to determine which of these coaches was in an Eastern Section set ............... but 'Rule 1's always an option.

[railroadbill]

This is all way off topic. Except that my Set 45 of Hornby Maunsell rebuilds runs on my summer 1947 model of Padstow which is of course located in Walnut Creek and for the moment is the only place I have to run the HO equipment for the eventual Walnut Creek Station area layout I am planning. How's that for a loose connection. I have seen photo's of Set 44 in malachite in 1950 in Padstow. I will probably buy a malachite set to number 44 when Hornby make it hopefully next year. 

 

The old WC station site is now covered by the very large multi-story Broadway Plaza shopping center.  The depot building was moved in the 1970's about 200 yards south and 100 feet east and is currently used as a high end steak restaurant. Track was removed in early 1980's.   The right of way is now a bike/walking trail known as the "Iron Horse Trail".  The junction of local creeks just north of the station area was undergrounded beneath the shopping center and a flood bypass created.  None of the area looks like it did in 1947. The hills are are mostly covered with new growth "urban forest" put in by developers in the 1960-1990 period.  Australians would be reminded of home by the large numbers of eucalyptus/gum trees now up to 150 feet in height,   

 

The SP WC depot building is about 1.5 miles from BART station. BART does not follow the old SP line at all but does use part of the former Oakland Antioch and Eastern Railway (not railroad) right of way.  The OA&E was an electrified line that built an early 20th century tunnel through the Oakland hills. One could ride by ferries from SF to Oakland, through the hills and on to a ferry over the Sacramento river and then on to Sacramento and eventually Chico some 150 miles north as part of the Sacramento Northern Railway. For a brief period 1939-41electrified trains crossed the bay on the lower deck of the Bay Bridge. It took a good 12 hour to get to Chico this way.  Also after the OA&E, arrived in Walnut Creek with a direct route to SF, SP discontinued passenger service on the San Ramon branch. The photo shows an excursion/fail fan train in 1947. 

 

I will continue this off topic discussion about the WC station and central Contra Costa County railroads and railways on my layout topic. See http://www.rmweb.co....e-line-padstow/ should anyone be interested.

Hi Autocoach,  thanks for that very interesting history of your local lines. I'll head over to your Padstow  layout thread. I've booked a window seat and just have to trundle through the patchwork quilt countryside of North Cornwall (as per John Betjeman)  in a 3 coach train of Maunsell coaches pulled by a Bulleid unrebuilt Pacific.

 

Now back to ex LSWR coaches....

[Blobrick]

Gents

 

Can anyone confirm, what E-4 sets were?. I ve seen these sets mentioned on the Hornby web site but after a quick look through this thread, l have be unable to find any reference to them.  According to Hornby These sets were used on the Exmouth branch in the 1950s and were made up of sets 42 - 46 with two Compartment Lavatory Thirds either in between the brakes or at either end.

Can anyone add further to this please?

 

 

Many Thanks

 

Bob C

 

 

Any takers?

[GreenGiraffe22]

Been  playing around with a longer ensemble with them today, I think they looked really good on their own behind the 700 as well

 

 

[9402 Fredrick]

I just pre-ordered the LYme Regis train pack today, can't wait to see what these coaches look like up close.

[Wickham Green]

Gents

 

Can anyone confirm, what E-4 sets were?. I ve seen these sets mentioned on the Hornby web site but after a quick look through this thread, l have be unable to find any reference to them.  According to Hornby These sets were used on the Exmouth branch in the 1950s and were made up of sets 42 - 46 with two Compartment Lavatory Thirds either in between the brakes or at either end.

Can anyone add further to this please?

 

 

Many Thanks

 

Bob C

Presumably 'E' means they were Exeter-based and they were - relatively temporary - 4-car formations of Dia.99 Brake Thirds and Dia.418 Lavatory Brake Composite ( sets 42-46 ) with a coupe of Dia.31 Lavatory Thirds added [ maybe just for the sumer timetable(s)] : as always photos would be needed to determine exact formation ...... and a healthy dose of pure guesswork for the exact TLs used in each case, I'd imagine.

[Wickham Green]

At least three of these rebuilds appear in the new edition of Backtrack - though not close enough to identify : context and liveries may be of interest.

[chris45lsw]

At least three of these rebuilds appear in the new edition of Backtrack - though not close enough to identify : context and liveries may be of interest.

I might be missing something but I can only find one 58ft rebuild in the September Backtrack.  That's the Diagram 97 seven compartment BTL next to M7 30060 on page 547.  This is in a pull-push set, one of sets Nos. 1 - 6.  Its companion is a LSWR 56ft BCL, converted to a driving trailer, diag419.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas