Andrew P Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Well after adding 66 pics on the previous page, I just HOPE that R M Web doesn't CRASH TONIGHT. hahha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hi Andy I have been to Telford today so have not been able to keep up with your shenanigans today. So some comments. 1, the autocoach is being shoved, pushed, propelled etc. into the station not hauled. 2, they are not the wrong type of cows but they just don't look right. 3, Aren't card systems great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted February 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2016 I do like milk tankers and panniers, they are a sweet combination. Have you thought about pairing the milk tanks with an ex GWR full brake for churn traffic Andy? That might make a nice change. 5526 with a pair of ex GWR tanks and W276W diagram K42 full brake coach. 1450 with the same train. Don Bishop photo. Just some ideas. Kind regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 I do like milk tankers and panniers, they are a sweet combination. Have you thought about pairing the milk tanks with an ex GWR full brake for churn traffic Andy? That might make a nice change. 5526 & Milk Train.jpg 5526 with a pair of ex GWR tanks and W276W diagram K42 full brake coach. 1450-Luscombe-curve-2115.jpg 1450 with the same train. Don Bishop photo. Just some ideas. Kind regards, Nick. Thanks Nick, yes there will be Milk Tanks added to Passenger workings, all in good time, there are a lot of working that I'm still looking at, including the China Clays that will be a strange working on their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted February 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2016 Thanks Nick, yes there will be Milk Tanks added to Passenger workings, all in good time, there are a lot of working that I'm still looking at, including the China Clays that will be a strange working on their own. If you want a hand with that Andy do say, as I've carried out loads of research for Bodmin re-clay workings! It might save you a bit of time. Kind regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 If you want a hand with that Andy do say, as I've carried out loads of research for Bodmin re-clay workings! It might save you a bit of time. Kind regards, Nick. Thanks Nick, I think it was you that suggested a second rake for a swap at Pencarne, so that one would come out of Wenford Bridge full with a Southern Loco and swap rakes in the Yard and take the empties back down the Branch, with the Western Loco picking up the Fulls from the Yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted February 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2016 Thanks Nick, I think it was you that suggested a second rake for as swap at Pencarne, so that one would come out of Wenford Bridge full with a Southern Loco and swap rakes in the Yard and take the empties back down the Branch, with the Western Loco picking up the Fulls from the Yard. Completely forgot that! Yes I did indeed, memory like a ... Kind regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2016 Nice pics Andy but an interesting situation here for GWR/WR modelling types. Under the Electric token (and other single line) Regulations all the points had to be set towards the main platform/arrival line and (GWR version) the line had to be clear to the point at which the train normally stopped, under the BR WR Regulations the line had to be clear to the buffer stops. And, in both cases it was not permitted to alter the setting of any points until the train had been brought to a stand at the Home Signal. In addition any train requiring to run round would normally run to the line which offered the maximum available run round length - i.e. in the case of Pencarne the main platform. And of course running to the main platform allowed the train to run in without stopping at the Home Signal. Although not provided for in the Regulations running direct to a shotrter bay platform might well have been authorised at some termini but i've never found any evidence of this one way or the other. So now you all know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Nice pics Andy but an interesting situation here for GWR/WR modelling types. Under the Electric token (and other single line) Regulations all the points had to be set towards the main platform/arrival line and (GWR version) the line had to be clear to the point at which the train normally stopped, under the BR WR Regulations the line had to be clear to the buffer stops. And, in both cases it was not permitted to alter the setting of any points until the train had been brought to a stand at the Home Signal. In addition any train requiring to run round would normally run to the line which offered the maximum available run round length - i.e. in the case of Pencarne the main platform. And of course running to the main platform allowed the train to run in without stopping at the Home Signal. Although not provided for in the Regulations running direct to a shotrter bay platform might well have been authorised at some termini but i've never found any evidence of this one way or the other. So now you all know Sorry for my thickieness Mike, but does this mean that ALL Goods and Milk Trains run direct into the Platform Road every time even though Shunting would then involve crossing the Level Crossing each time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Excellent work Andy really enjoying your shunting movements good to see you enjoying the layout at last Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hi Andy. Great set of photos showing how Pencarne will be operated. In fact i'm glad you posted these as we do a similar thing on CQ, sandwiching the brake van between two set of goods wagons (clay wagons in our case) to make sure its on the right end at the end of the manoeuvre. Not being au fait with these operations I'm always waiting for someone at the exhibitions we do to say, 'you can't do that'. Now i have the perfect answer - 'well thats what AndyP does' and blame you. :jester: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Cheers Martin and Ray, re the Shunting and Brake Van, I saw my mate John do it with the Milk Tankers on his Torridge Layout so I've copied him, but to me it does seem the most logical way that things would have been done. I am now concerned how I will do it if the Train has to come into the Platform first, although Mike says that's the way it should be done to keep within GWR / BR rules. It actually makes no operational sense. The Train would come to a halt in the Platform, the Level Crossing gates would have to remain closed to Traffic whilst it then reversed again across them, to then push forward into the loop, although I may just have enough clearance between the Crossover Point and the Gates with 3 Tanks, a Brake Van and a Small / Pannier, to do it without crossing the Gates, see pic below. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2016 I do like milk tankers and panniers, they are a sweet combination. Have you thought about pairing the milk tanks with an ex GWR full brake for churn traffic Andy? That might make a nice change. 5526 & Milk Train.jpg 5526 with a pair of ex GWR tanks and W276W diagram K42 full brake coach. 1450-Luscombe-curve-2115.jpg 1450 with the same train. Don Bishop photo. Just some ideas. Kind regards, Nick. Hi Nick and Andy The use of a full brake depended on the working. The guard needed some where to sit and read his paper so a full brake or a brake van would be required. If there was any churn traffic then a full brake might be ideal as it could carry the guard and the churns. However a Siphon van could also carry churns, so a Siphon and a brake van with the tanks would also be acceptable. Where there were no churns a brake van would do. Each Branch with a dairy would need its own BG (full brake). Normally there was only one per main line train and the train would be made up of all the small trains from the branches. In some places the churns would travel in the van of the branch passenger train and be loaded on to the BG of the milk train at the junction station. In later days the BG would be used on the complete train, possibly working one of the branches before the train was fully made up. I am not to sure how much churn traffic there was to the bigger cities in the 50s and 60s so it might be that the train could run faster with the guard in a BG than in a brake van and he was all it carried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Thanks for that Clive, Very useful, I have BG, Syphon H and G so I'm well covered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Just been out for a quick look and would you Adam and Eve it, there's just enough clearance for it to work back, clear the Crossover and back into the Loop. And that's with NORMAL couplings between the Tanks, once Kadee's are fitted I will have almost another inch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted February 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2016 Just been out for a quick look and would you Adam and Eve it, there's just enough clearance for it to work back, clear the Crossover and back into the Loop. Milk Tank clearence Test 001.JPG Milk Tank clearence Test 002.JPG Milk Tank clearence Test 003.JPG Milk Tank clearence Test 004.JPG And that's with NORMAL couplings between the Tanks, once Kadee's are fitted I will have almost another inch. An extra inch is always worth having in my experience. With regard to Mike's comments on the signalling regs, would a solution be to have a three-arm bracket Inner Home just where the loco is standing in the last photo? The left arm would be the lowest of the three with a short arm and would apply to movements into the loop; the middle arm would be the tallest with a full-length arm and would apply to movements into the main platform; and the right arm would be medium height with a full-length arm and would apply to movements into the bay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 An extra inch is always worth having in my experience. With regard to Mike's comments on the signalling regs, would a solution be to have a three-arm bracket Inner Home just where the loco is standing in the last photo? The left arm would be the lowest of the three with a short arm and would apply to movements into the loop; the middle arm would be the tallest with a full-length arm and would apply to movements into the main platform; and the right arm would be medium height with a full-length arm and would apply to movements into the bay. Your probably quite right BUT I'm using the Dapol Signals because they work from my Lever Frame, I'm not into making Signals or modifying components that work and look good. I wish I had the ability to do things like that but I'd rather just get on and finish laying and wiring and then I won't need to turn the boards over again as that is a pain, also I want to get on and PLAY TRAINS, hahha after all that's what its all about. Cheers. I do like your thinking though, and it would look good as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Looks much better to operate mate... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Hi Andy, Just another spanner in the works for you, I doubt a shunt move would be allowed with such close proximity to crossing gates, 'I may be mistaken but I'm never wrong' as my old Toton gaffer used to utter. BUT its your layout remember! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Hi Andy, Just another spanner in the works for you, I doubt a shunt move would be allowed with such close proximity to crossing gates, 'I may be mistaken but I'm never wrong' as my old Toton gaffer used to utter. BUT its your layout remember! That's fine Mike, it's 1968 so Sod the Motorist, the Gates can stay open for the Railway, ANYWAY Cars will never catch on, there far to un reliable. we'll all soon be back to Horses by the year 2000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgabill Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Just been out for a quick look and would you Adam and Eve it, there's just enough clearance for it to work back, clear the Crossover and back into the Loop. Milk Tank clearence Test 001.JPG Milk Tank clearence Test 002.JPG Milk Tank clearence Test 003.JPG Milk Tank clearence Test 004.JPG And that's with NORMAL couplings between the Tanks, once Kadee's are fitted I will have almost another inch. I,m not qualified to give advice here, but a few small questions have popped into my head. 1) The passenger brake, wasn't that the GWR norm at least on the mainline, as 6 wheel tanks were fitted and passenger rated allowing faster pemited speeds? 2) Would it have been allowe to shunt that close to the level crossing. It certainly looks like an invitation to do away the gates. Indeed in your photo the brake van has effected a SPAD. Please be careful Andy we don't want you being banned from RM Web for unsafe practices, a la the prototype! TONY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2016 Sorry for my thickieness Mike, but does this mean that ALL Goods and Milk Trains run direct into the Platform Road every time even though Shunting would then involve crossing the Level Crossing each time? The way round it Andy is for the train to be brought to a stand at the Home Signal then the route to be reset towards the loop and then proceed as, in effect, a shunting move. No need of course to block the level crossing if you shunt off the platform road as you just do your shunt in several hits (more fun?). What is wrong - although modellers seem to do it with gay abandon at exhibitions - is fora freight to run straight into a loop line or siding without stopping and allowing time for the road to be reset. And of course the usual advantage of arriving in the platform road is that it gives more space to run round thus allowing longer freights. I think what many folk don't realise is that on many smaller GW branches the freight trips usually ran during the gaps in the passenger service thus allowing them time to shunt as needed although your situation is a bit different due to the exchange traffic which adds extra freight moves (just like Bodmin in some respects). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2016 An extra inch is always worth having in my experience. With regard to Mike's comments on the signalling regs, would a solution be to have a three-arm bracket Inner Home just where the loco is standing in the last photo? The left arm would be the lowest of the three with a short arm and would apply to movements into the loop; the middle arm would be the tallest with a full-length arm and would apply to movements into the main platform; and the right arm would be medium height with a full-length arm and would apply to movements into the bay. sshh - I had hoped ( and so no doubt did Andy) that no one would notice that. BTW in answer to other comments there is nothing wrong with shunting towards a level crossing which is closed to rail traffic. Level crossings occupied a rather unusual situation in signalling terms as for some things - such as train acceptance on the block - they were regarded as not being there at all. Ok to shunt and there is a protecting signal but no doubt after the gates have been demolished a few times someone might put in an Instruction banning such moves (and the local staff would probably carry on in the same old way). And yes - milk was passenger rated traffic so a Milk Train should have a passenger brake van (but on some branches that little nicety seems to have been ignored). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 That's fine Mike, it's 1968 so Sod the Motorist, the Gates can stay open for the Railway, ANYWAY Cars will never catch on, there far to un reliable. we'll all soon be back to Horses by the year 2000. Nothing wrong with having the gates closed whilst you're shunting. Come up to Bardon Hill one day when I'm shunting the Tinsley in and you'll see what I mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 P.S Sorry forgot to mention. Really enjoyed the rest of your photo's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.