Ray Von Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hello, I'm making a new layout and I'm trying to avoid the usual "bus on bridge" solution to hiding my tunnels. How prototypical is it to have buildings, with or without any roadway near them, over railway tunnels? My main doubt concerns the buildings foundations, in relation to the roof of the tunnel. For example, if I were to put a pub over a tunnel, would the tiny landlord end up on the roof of the 14:22 to Charing Cross when he went to down change the barrel? Any insight would be very welcome. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hello, I'm making a new layout and I'm trying to avoid the usual "bus on bridge" solution to hiding my tunnels. How prototypical is it to have buildings, with or without any roadway near them, over railway tunnels? My main doubt concerns the buildings foundations, in relation to the roof of the tunnel. For example, if I were to put a pub over a tunnel, would the tiny landlord end up on the roof of the 14:22 to Charing Cross when he went to down change the barrel? Any insight would be very welcome. Cheers. Absolutely fine mate, the photo is of Knaresborough which is pretty much the situation you describe. Don't forget a lot of earlier buildings have very shallow foundations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted September 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2015 It's quite common to find buildings over tunnels. Most tunnels are in steeper hills so the buildings would be way above the track level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted September 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 1, 2015 Some of the very best layouts are spoilt for me by the builder not having thought through this problem and looked at what happens in real life. A lot of it has to do with the age of the building. If it is older than the railway, very unlikely that the railway could tunnel beneath it unless there was a lot of depth of ground below the building (more than you would be looking for in a layout). A building built after the railway could be built with suitable foundations. But in general, your best bet is probably for buildings that are built over a covered way or on a bridge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium The White Rabbit Posted September 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2015 I think there was a case of someone's new building ending up in a tunnel but it was the exception that proved the rule. I don't have a photo as good as Boris' but have seen this situation many times in the 1:1 world. So long as you allow some depth between the roof of the tunnel and the base of the foundations, as the other posters have said, you'll be fine. Most of Leeds station is built over a void - the Dark Arches - and nothing's fallen in yet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I think there was a case of someone's new building ending up in a tunnel but it was the exception that proved the rule. I don't have a photo as good as Boris' but have seen this situation many times in the 1:1 world. So long as you allow some depth between the roof of the tunnel and the base of the foundations, as the other posters have said, you'll be fine. Most of Leeds station is built over a void - the Dark Arches - and nothing's fallen in yet! There was a drill bit ended up in Moor Street tunnels not so very long ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hello, I'm making a new layout and I'm trying to avoid the usual "bus on bridge" solution to hiding my tunnels. How prototypical is it to have buildings, with or without any roadway near them, over railway tunnels? My main doubt concerns the buildings foundations, in relation to the roof of the tunnel. For example, if I were to put a pub over a tunnel, would the tiny landlord end up on the roof of the 14:22 to Charing Cross when he went to down change the barrel? Any insight would be very welcome. Cheers. I remember reading about building the Victoria Street Great Central Railway tunnel under Nottingham the contractors accidentally broke through into a pub cellar and duly drank all the beer !!! Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Maybe Boris might find one of these more useful ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 There was the Tesco tunnel that collapsed during construction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Many pubs don't have a cellar in the ...errrrmm .... cellar. One of my favourite pubs (I used to clean it as well as drink there)was like this.The cellar was only 2 feet lower than the bar, and separated only by a wall and staircase/well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Not a railway tunnel, but when the motorway tunnels on the M4 at Brynglas, Newport were being excavated during the 1960s, there was a partial collapse which caused several houses to fall down. Someone alludes to the Tesco's tunnel failure at Gerrard's Cross; this was a case where an arch was built over a previously open bit of track. It failed when the infill was incorrectly distributed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted September 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 1, 2015 The west end of Devonport tunnel (Plymouth) seems to have very little between the buildings and the tunnel Wikipedia image Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I think you have answered your own question - the crown of the tunnel and the cellar of the pub would need to be separated. If the tunnel was cut in rock then yes you might have buildings above the railway (Knaresbrough?). I cannot think of a rule of thumb to say how much rock there would need to be between the roof of the tunnel and building foundations - lets say more than the diameter of the tunnel. If the tunnel was made in superficial materials (sands, gravels, clays etc) then it is likely that it would have been constructed in 'cut' and roofed over - frequently with a road. I would doubt that there would be buildings above the tunnel in this latter situation. You will need to visit some real locations or study some pictures. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Just don't do a coal mine, seen that done before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Birmingham Snow Hill had a great big hotel over the southern end and entrance to the tunnel, still has buildings, an arcade of shops and many roads over it before the trains emerge at Moor Street...Regards Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I remember reading about building the Victoria Street Great Central Railway tunnel under Nottingham the contractors accidentally broke through into a pub cellar and duly drank all the beer !!! Brit15 Possibly a cave rather than a cellar - the centre of Nottingham is riddled with caves, and a lot of buildings use them as cellars. You're more likely to unexpectedly come across one whilst tunnelling than a man made cellar. There's a tourist attraction in the Broadmarsh centre where you can visit some caves - the centre is built on the side of a cliff so the entrance is on the first floor. Sadly my house doesn't have a cave underneath it, so no scope for building my own batcave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted September 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2015 Erm - thats not a tunnel in the sense the original poster mentioned. It is a concrete raft placed over the tracks so that buildings may be constructed above - no different to what has occurred at London Liverpool Street, Charing Cross, Cannon Street, Victoria etc. Yes it looks like a Tunnel and operationally the railway may call it that but the methods used in its construction have very little in common with true 'bored' tunnels True examples of Tunnels with buildings on top (as opposed to the railway being rafted over to support buildings) requires a reasonable amount of solid ground cover (i.e. rock) so as to support the foundations and distribute the load. If there is insufficient ground cover then buildings may not be constructed (though roads normally can). An example of this include the tunnel at Ryde on the Isel of Wight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 A classic example of cut and cover where the buildings are erected after the railway. Edgware Road? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 1, 2015 And no ones mentioned The Ladykillers? http://www.martinunderwood.f9.co.uk/Ladykillers/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted September 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2015 The west end of Devonport tunnel (Plymouth) seems to have very little between the buildings and the tunnel Wikipedia image Those buildings were demolished a couple of years ago. There are buildings over Mutley tunnel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Sydney Gardens tunnels in Bath. Both shallow with Georgian buildings over them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Nobody has mentioned the north end of Clayton Tunnel on the Brighton mainline. https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/113/306751062_ec83237206_z.jpg?zz=1 Keith, Dursley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted September 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2015 I think you can just make out in this picture of Clifton Down tunnel, there are houses right above the portal A single car emerges from Clifton Down Tunnel and is about to enter the station, 1972 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 It was only a bloody suggestion! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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