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Flying Scotsman back on the mainline - 2016

colin penfold

By colin penfold,
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Derekstuart

Derekstuart

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Any chance you can explain WHY?

 

The pilot is flying a twin shaft aircraft and is in possession of a 500ft derogation certificate. As far as I can see he has complied with all legal requirements and best practice.

 

 

The chopper pilot, however skilled, was being a little silly.  Not sure what the CAA would make of that one....

 

Brian

(who's been lucky enough to spend a lot of time working on & flying in helis)

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Derekstuart

Derekstuart

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I imagine the FOI Officer of the CAA will tell them to get stuffed.

 

Firstly the derogation is not granted for a specific flight. BOTH the aircraft AND the pilot have to have the derogation. There is no set criteria, but for the aircraft twin engine is almost de rigour and single (especially piston) engines are almost certainly going to be refused. The pilot will be assessed based upon his flight hours and any other relevant considerations.

 

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Wheatley

Wheatley

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If the 500 foot rule was absolute then all sorts of helicopter-based activity would be impossible, pylon inspections for example. This is a great example of trainspotters suddenly becoming lineside experts on aviation when a sizeable number of them have just demonstrated that they're not that ###### hot on the rules surrounding their own hobby. Well said Derek.  

 

With respect to the FOI request, (Jukebox's link), that is the requester's 39th FOI request to the BBC. I suspect that faint ringing noise you hear is an axe being ground... 

Edited by Wheatley
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Ozexpatriate

Ozexpatriate

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Railway trespass could be worse. All this BTP discussion made me think of this story from India:

 

In January, a teenager in the city of Chennai was reportedly struck and killed while grabbing a snap in front of an oncoming train.

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Andy Y

Andy Y

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Whilst Derek has quoted specific useful information and quoted examples of permissions (which I fully accept) I would say they're based on a specific need. I would assume the pilot had good visibility of the half mile or so ahead of him to do this with confidence there were no apparent hazards I still think there was no real need to do it, just because it can be done.

 

Another angle on the same event.

 

https://youtu.be/WPeyMuSg5ek?t=16s

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RJS1977

RJS1977

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If the 500 foot rule was absolute then all sorts of helicopter-based activity would be impossible, pylon inspections for example. This is a great example of trainspotters suddenly becoming lineside experts on aviation when a sizeable number of them have just demonstrated that they're not that ###### hot on the rules surrounding their own hobby. Well said Derek.  

 

With respect to the FOI request, (Jukebox's link), that is the requester's 39th FOI request to the BBC. I suspect that faint ringing noise you hear is an axe being ground... 

 

As has already been stated, the person who put the complaint in about the height of the helicopter is a qualified pilot, so a bit more than a "lineside expert".

 

I would have thought there was a big difference between flying a helicopter at 180' for a practical purpose like a pylon inspection and flying at effectively zero feet just to take a bit of video. Quite apart from the risk of the helicopter hitting something, there's the issue of nuisance to people/animals on the ground, And there has been at least one case where a member of footplate crew has suffered severe burns owing to blowback caused by a low flying helicopter.

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edcayton

edcayton

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I can accept stupid people standing on the track, but I would hope that they don't allow stupid people to fly helicopters. If he had been driving a car like that and the Police saw him they would at least have pulled him over and "had a word".

 

Ed

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polybear

polybear

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Any chance you can explain WHY?

 

The pilot is flying a twin shaft aircraft and is in possession of a 500ft derogation certificate. As far as I can see he has complied with all legal requirements and best practice.

Sure.  Just because he (may) have a bit of paper telling him (or her) he/she can do so doesn't automatically make it a safe and sensible thing to do.  With current camera technology there's surely no need to be that close to the loco; there may be some argument that the aircraft was that low in order to get "the angle".  However, it leaves f.all scope for maneuovre in the event of a problem arising, be it technical or outside influence (drones, bird strike, some little scrote thinking it funny to lob a stone*).  HTH

 

Brian

 

(* Having been on the East Lancs Railway some years ago when the local scrotes playing footie in the field next to the line thought it a good scheme to pick up stones and pelt the loco and carriages as it went past - one of them clobbered the window I was sitting next to.  It seems it was a regular occurrence - the stationmaster I spoke to told me that a window was shot out with an air rifle, apparently by a 28 yr old woman in a block of flats.  I believe the police got her.)

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Mallard60022

Mallard60022

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Andy has it dead right. Just because you can is not necessarily justification for doing something. There are too many folk these days that take this 'I can do anything' attitude whilst not really thinking things through and then putting many things and other people at risk. Exciting it may have been and it certainly looked like a Bond movie clip, but it was a bit irresponsible really and could have caused problems.

Anyway, there have been some unbelievable comments posted on a certain FB group condoning the trespassers' behaviour.....unbelievable and it doesn't even come close to stuff that would not last 10 seconds on this Forum (thank goodness).

Phil

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PMP

PMP

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This is one of the funniest threads in a long time regarding aviation on this site, can we make it a sticky?

 

The most useful info so far is from Wheatley regarding the operators AOC. Professionally having investigated tens of thousands of low flying complaints, the footage so far gives me no concern.

 

There's a lot of bs here, uav getting in the way of the helicopter? Who's responsibility would that be? spend a bit of time thinking rather than foaming, type of helicopter? Where in the ANO does it state what helicopter has to be used? Read rule5 properly and apply it, not a woolly interpretation of it.

 

Finally watch the video and relate it to the ANO/AOC it might lower your blood pressures

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Boco_D1

Boco_D1

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Best not get upset about these things beyond our control. Those mentioned will not have thought about any of the dangers concerned simple as that.

Plus I'd wager it was either the fireman (having a breather) or the owners rep who was waving away from the cab.

Indeed not much I can do, but as a professional railwayman I know all too well the consequences of the actions of those who think they are invincible against a speeding train, that sort of behaviour can end a drivers career because some never want to get in a cab again.

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The Stationmaster

The Stationmaster

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The stuff about the helo is very interesting - particularly the informed comments.

 

Regrettably in my last big railway job events conspired to ensure that I didn't make exactly the same sort of filming trip along the ECML in a helicopter.  A company did several jobs for us over the years with some similarly low level flying alongside railway routes although one difference was that we provided a 'route conductor' to help identify the best filming locations and advise on sections to miss in order to pre-position in good time to the next good area.  The jobs had been shared around the team in the past so I gave away the WCML on condition I would get the ECML - and that one was subsequently cancelled.

 

But those of the team who did go found it absolutely fascinating in the hands of some very capable pilots with - amongst other skills - high standards of map reading for hazards to low level flying.  So in the hands of professionals I don't doubt these sort of filming jobs are done as safely as possible.

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gismorail

gismorail

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From looking at the footage from a different angle I would say that the helicopter is a good 500 ft from the track side . I'm sure that all the people complaining about these events will also enjoy the footage supplied by the BBC in the comfort of their armchair !!!!

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Derekstuart

Derekstuart

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I suggest all that can be said about that helicopter flight has probably already been said and that the CAA will be well aware of the flight by now and if there is any action to be taken then they will take it after examining all the relevant information.

 

Now, what was it I read about some famous steam engine that was following this helicopter?

 

On the subject of that hot water machine, did anyone else notice the newspaper entry for it in the 'daily mail'? (sorry- I HAVE to read all the papers daily at work). It refers to the cab as engine room and its paint is 'its original BR green'. Forgive me for being pedantic but wasn't that kettle built some 26 years before the invention of BR let alone that shade of green?

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uax6

uax6

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Watch out, Jeremy kyle Vine is about to talk about FS on his 'program' today. He started well by not realising that it ran Yesterday while talking to the other Flying Scotsman (Ken Bruce) at 1130...

 

Lets see what rubbish is said...

 

Andy G

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