RMweb Premium PMP99 Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 May be my perception, but I thought yesterday was one of the quietest Warley shows I have been to. Good for seeing things, but obviously not so good for the traders and stands. Overheard some people saying Saturday was very busy, so perhaps a further shift to the first day? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2016 N Its really unrealistic to expect TOCs to go out of their way to accommodate exhibitions. My 350 was busy but there were seats at the end and most decamped at Stechford or Marston Green. ie short distance travellers avoiding the NEC car parks. Virgin and XC are an inter city TOC. They are not going to re-arrange their services for 10 minute trips to the NEC. Why should they subsidise the NEC? If the NEC want to they can always run shuttle buses to New Street etc. The connection from New Street is only one of the routes to the NEC. Many people will be coming up on Pendolinos from London or Voyagers from Poole/Southampton/Basingstoke etc; anything but a 10 minute hop. There are multiple events going on pretty much every weekend and, by definition, if they warrant being held at the NEC, they are quite sizeable. For lots of those attending, I suspect that the NEC is a "destination" in a way that Birmingham itself may never be. There's money to be made from exhibition-goers just as much as any other travellers but our rail network is becoming ever more exclusively geared to the requirements of commuting and the different needs of the weekend leisure market are increasingly ignored. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Cross Country (and I imagine Virgin as well) were warning to allow extra time to get to your return train because it was just so busy. Virgin staff at International were marshalling people to the appropriate platform, so for my 1638 to Manchester they only let people onto the platform who were going past Birmingham, others were being directed to Virgin and LM services. My Voyager was still full and then when it got to Birmingham it turned out all services between Birmingham and Liverpool were cancelled so people were hopping on to get to Stafford to meet WCML services from there to Liverpool. Although there were crushes and my first class cup of coffee and a biscuit didn't appear till Macclesfield I think the railway companies seemed to have plans in place to deal with what is probably a typical Saturday in a very popular location. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 Cross Country (and I imagine Virgin as well) were warning to allow extra time to get to your return train because it was just so busy. Virgin staff at International were marshalling people to the appropriate platform, so for my 1638 to Manchester they only let people onto the platform who were going past Birmingham, others were being directed to Virgin and LM services. My Voyager was still full and then when it got to Birmingham it turned out all services between Birmingham and Liverpool were cancelled so people were hopping on to get to Stafford to meet WCML services from there to Liverpool. Although there were crushes and my first class cup of coffee and a biscuit didn't appear till Macclesfield I think the railway companies seemed to have plans in place to deal with what is probably a typical Saturday in a very popular location. Sounds bad, I'm glad I was on the one an hour earlier (on Saturday), at least I only had to stand until New Street (in standard). For some reason it filled up a bit again at Macclesfield, with people standing around in the way in the vestibules despite two announcements that there were plenty of seats further back. More to the point though enjoyed the show. Without having any specific things to buy in mind this time I deliberately didn't look at a map or buy a guide, intending to just wander around and see what there was to see. Looking at this thread I missed some of the good bits Still saw plenty to impress me though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I was taken ill on the Sunday morning with a migraine and I have to say Paul and his team couldn't have been more helpful and solicitous - let me use their office to lie down, kept making sure I was still OK, couldn't have done too much for me. It really helped and I'd like to record my thanks and gratitude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Missing some of the good bits is an occupational hazard, I'm afraid. For all the good that came of it, I did some pre-planning, having downloaded the floor plan and list of stands. The plan that materialised was to call on some notables, secure one newly released wagon and a few bits and pieces, meet my cousin and his friend, attempt a lunchtime RMweb meet and then, only then, look at some layouts. What actually happened began with a beeline for the nearest box shifter when we were allowed in, five minutes early. The wagon was secured and will receive a thorough examination in good time but first impressions are favourable. Various brief encounters followed and with some layouts catching my eye the last item on the rather modest shopping list was not secured until 4 pm. I had one cup of tea, kindly funded by my cousin 88C so I do not know how exorbitant it was. Not until well after 2 pm did I open my sandwich box, balanced precariously on the barrier in front of Hochstadt. [That's the sandwich box, not me. Behave!] I viewed some layouts but by no means all. The filter that I apply normally excludes European outline but I did rather like Hasselt and do not envy whoever had to erect all that overhead. Unlike some other shows this year [are you listening, Warners?] there was a significant P4 presence, rightly so because the Scalefour Society is 40 years old. Much progress has been made on the addition to Clarendon, called Scrubbs Lane, which I enjoyed watching. The jury is still out on the correctness of that spelling but my theory as a former resident of the area is that it is correct for 1908 but not now. The crowd in front of Copenhagen Fields was three deep for most of the day and I would have been surprised if it had been any less. It is inevitable that some layouts attracted me more than others and the same should be true of us all. I had some useful chats with learned demonstrators and was fortunate to sit in on a tutorial on soldering whitemetal by Tony Wright. The RMweb meet seems to have been fragmented. Four of us came together in Wetherspoons at the appointed hour of 1 pm. I am told that this is one more than on Saturday, and that there was another gathering on Sunday which started earlier and camouflaged itself so well that I did not detect it. This does not matter. What does is that members of RMweb do take the opportunity to meet and greet. From such encounters can grow lasting friendships and other mutual benefit. Yes, I know that many inmates tend to be busy doing something useful at shows but there are ways of coming together and we should do more of it. Here endeth the lesson! Chris - edited to reverse unexpected censorship! Down with the profanity filter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2016 Some of the comments about the train situation do more to illustrate the way the railway has to work today rather than anything else. First of course all the operators are running a 7 day railway every week, not just an extra weekend railway for the busier weekends at the NEC, so set maintenance and traincrew rosters are built around that initial position. Very few operators carry 'spare' traincrew in the way BR did and none of them carry spares to the extent that BR did plus they have to comply with the requirements for rest intervals and time free from duty so rosters can't necessarily be altered at the drop of a hat, especially if - for whatever reason - their roster pattern gives more staff days free from duty on saturdays at this time of year. So it's not so much the cost (and who nowadays pays enhanced rates for Saturdays?) but the sheer availability of staff to work extra trains etc. As far as the trains themselves are concerned the same might well also apply - it depends on maintenance needs and nobody is going to build their exam/shopping programme around a few weekends at this time of year - the longer distance operators, especially XC need their additional Saturday capability in the summer although local operators around Birmingham no doubt face a rather different situation with weekend peaks at this time of year. As for running specials I think we can either forget it or understand that if somebody digs out a 10 coach loco hauled set and some sort of loco to haul it then the fare will not be cheap and in any case it depends on the ability to path it between Coventry and Stetchford over what is in any case a very heavily used piece of railway. Sorry but that's the way it is nowadays and it's why we usually have trouble finding seats on XC trains from/to the south - especially when they are used as local services between Leamington and Birmingham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Why do we have to suffer 4/5 car Voyagers when in the past most XC trains were at least 9 to 12 coaches ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 As far as the trains themselves are concerned the same might well also apply - it depends on maintenance needs and nobody is going to build their exam/shopping programme around a few weekends at this time of year - the longer distance operators, especially XC need their additional Saturday capability in the summer although local operators around Birmingham no doubt face a rather different situation with weekend peaks at this time of year. I suppose the question is whether it is just a few weekends a year or, with the NEC being what it is, just about every weekend of the year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 Best thing I read that might tempt me to go again is the advice about parking somewhere else and getting the Express Coventry bus to the NEC. Anyway, thanks for all the entertaining comments and some of the pics are lovely. Sorry to hear that Jonno (from Grantham) was poorly; really horrible when at something like this. Hope you are OK now mate? Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2016 Why do we have to suffer 4/5 car Voyagers when in the past most XC trains were at least 9 to 12 coaches ? Because that's what the DfT say the TOC have to have - in simplistic terms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 May be my perception, but I thought yesterday was one of the quietest Warley shows I have been to. Odd, I thought that yesterday was one of the busiest Sundays I've seen for some while. There were crowds at all the layouts I wanted to see making viewing difficult and they didn't seem to abate until late in the afternoon. However, the overall hall layout design did mean that there were less of the crowded pinch points from past shows. And I was able to get a seat at the back of the hall near the ale stand. G. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2016 When I went to Warley a few years ago I left my car at Dublin airport. After a short flight it was just a short walk to the exhibition.!! Simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Why do we have to suffer 4/5 car Voyagers when in the past most XC trains were at least 9 to 12 coaches ? Back in the day when Voyagers were introduced the railways weren't doing too well. The voyager was something of a revolution in two ways. Firstly it could accelerate much faster than traditional trains and secondly it enabled Virgin to run a higher frequency of shorter trains. This proved very popular and soon the many voyager services were uncomfortably full. What I was told many years ago is that Virgin wanted to put extra cars into these units back in the early years but the Strategic Rail Authority (who were in charge of things then) said no. They also told Virgin they were being too successful and forced them to reduce their sales & marketing team. I am not aware of any technical reason why additional cars could not have been added at that time. Now of course it is too late as we probably don't have the information or expertise to make additional coaches for Voyagers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Odd, I thought that yesterday was one of the busiest Sundays I've seen for some while. There were crowds at all the layouts I wanted to see making viewing difficult and they didn't seem to abate until late in the afternoon. However, the overall hall layout design did mean that there were less of the crowded pinch points from past shows. And I was able to get a seat at the back of the hall near the ale stand. G. G. I agree - Sunday was at least as busy as other Sundays, possibly busier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glover Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 When I went to Warley a few years ago I left my car at Dublin airport. After a short flight it was just a short walk to the exhibition.!! Simple. Me too! Reading about all the grief suffered by GB residents, I might suggest a flight to Dublin and then another one to Birmingham! Might be cheaper too: my wife is flying to Stansted this week, out and back same day, for €4 each way! Cheers, Glover Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 When I went to Warley a few years ago I left my car at Dublin airport. After a short flight it was just a short walk to the exhibition.!! Simple. Never thought of that. I doubt anyone bothers putting flights on between Manchester and Birmingham though, but may be worth a look next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted November 28, 2016 Administrators Share Posted November 28, 2016 My usual plan for Satruday is an early train from Leamington to the NEC, then head to the airport for grub after the show finishes and a 7:15 train home - it's less crowded than the 6:15. This year, the 7:15 was cancelled due to lineside equipment problems new New Street. This also stopped all the trains going in to Brum. I nipped down and caught a bus (£2.30) to Solihull and caught the Chiltern service back to Leam. This might suggest that if your station is served by Chitlern, doing the reverse next year would be a good idea. The trains are comfortable and usually have seats. A bus ride is no problem and drops you off at Birmingham International. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2016 Used to be great when British Midland operated LHR-BHX & return. I could use my BA staff discount and be at the NEC in less than an hour door to door! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Although I've been many times before this was the first time I've taken my 6yr son. I must admit I was a little apprehensive before but it worked out amazing. I chose to go on the Sunday as I'd read it would be quieter and so it seemed. Although some layouts were busy the corridors and seating seemed a lot quieter. Most people were fantastic with kids, making space for them at layouts and looking out for them. Thanks to Warley for the step and the wristbands for peace of mind Highlights for him were Copenhagen Fields - A4s, Flying Scotsman AND tube trains, what more could a boy want - and Birmingham Moor Street - esp the wagon lift and traverses. However the absolutely highlight for him was the junior modeller kit building. Huge thanks to Peco and Squires for the stuff and especially Maggie and the team for helping a very excited 6yr old build his first kit. He had so much fun we had to pop back to Squires for more Wills kits!! I do have one bone to pick with them however. Thanks to their efforts he now thinks that as he has a signal box and a platform he has to have his own OO (I model N!) layout. Complete with traverser and working wagon lift. We stayed till the bitter end and he fell asleep somewhere around Tamworth dreaming of model railways and kits. Thanks to everyone for a fantastic day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Unlike some other shows this year [are you listening, Warners?] there was a significant P4 presence, rightly so because the Scalefour Society is 40 years old. Much progress has been made on the addition to Clarendon, called Scrubbs Lane, which I enjoyed watching. The jury is still out on the correctness of that spelling but my theory as a former resident of the area is that it is correct for 1908 but not now. The crowd in front of Copenhagen Fields was three deep for most of the day and I would have been surprised if it had been any less. It is inevitable that some layouts attracted me more than others and the same should be true of us all. I had some useful chats with learned demonstrators and was fortunate to sit in on a tutorial on soldering whitemetal by Tony Wright. WHAT I missed Copenhagen Fields too. Must plan better next year - I've seen Copenhagen Fields many times but I wanted to see the work on the goods yard and I've never seen Grantham outside of BRM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP99 Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 Odd, I thought that yesterday was one of the busiest Sundays I've seen for some while. There were crowds at all the layouts I wanted to see making viewing difficult and they didn't seem to abate until late in the afternoon. However, the overall hall layout design did mean that there were less of the crowded pinch points from past shows. And I was able to get a seat at the back of the hall near the ale stand. G. G. You may be right. Perhaps it was a better hall layout as I had no difficulty in making my way around and that may have led me to believe it was less busy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2016 WHAT I missed Copenhagen Fields too. Must plan better next year - I've seen Copenhagen Fields many times but I wanted to see the work on the goods yard and I've never seen Grantham outside of BRM. The bit I missed was the gauge 1 live steam. How could I have managed to miss something that size! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2016 I suppose the question is whether it is just a few weekends a year or, with the NEC being what it is, just about every weekend of the year. I would suspect that as far as both XC and Virgin are concerned the NEC traffic, peaking on some Saturdays during the year, is the least of their worries. Their first commitment is to meeting what is in their franchise agreements using the resources their franchise contract provides them with - any additional resource can of course be bought (if it's there to buy) but then they would need to get a return on it which covers the cost. In a way no different from BR reducing the number of special traffic sets it had until there were barely a handful to cover the whole network. For West Midlands local operators things might well be different but the same basic rule applies - you start with the franchise agreement and what it requires. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 From the point of view of an exhibitor it's a very grueling weekend, operating 9am to 6pm on Saturday in particular. I'm shattered today having unloaded, driven back from Birmingham and taken the van back. Having to park the van a mile from the hall wasn't ideal, and if it had been wet it would have bene even worse. Getting in and out of the NEC by road is a nightmare, I detest the place. This is a personal view by the way, I'm a Warley club member but we were exhibiting as private individuals. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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