Hornby's financial updates to the Stock Market

[raymw]

If the local shop can not compete in price with mail order, then it needs to add value in some way to what they sell. I have a few experiences where value is not added from a few years back. One from a shop some miles away, I was in the area, went into a shop which advertises in many of the magazines, afaik, and apparently well stocked. However, I was treated in a most off-hand way, the owner being more concerned with rabbiting with a few of his old mates, I guess. After standing around for well over three minutes, with not even a glance in my direction from him, I had to interrupt, asked what I was looking for. His response was a vague wave towards the back of the shop, saying if he had it, it would be back there. He didn't have it, and he didn't have any of my cash.

Another, nearer here, (my local shop), three instances at least, all which could have been easily resolved -1) magazines not available every month 2) he ran out of Mek, display box empty. He said that he'd have to order it, it will be in within a fortnight, 3) I wanted a number of Expo tools, razor saws and the like. On the comprehensive display stand, half of what I wanted was missing - he said that he'd order it when the rep comes in next week. That shop has now closed.

[The Stationmaster]

I'm not sure thats right, shops are possibly more likely to commission things which appeal to their owners rather than geographical location. Yes, they might look at things local to their area first, but I'd be quite happy buying something from the opposite end of the country if its something I like

 

I think shops choose their commissions on a far more careful basis that many of us might like to think because obviously part of their aim has to be to commission something which (they think) will sell and, in many cases. something which they believe they can readily research to the stage where it can be presented to the manufacturer.  Obviously re-liveries on concurrent runs by that manufacturer are one of the simplest ways to set about such a process, and are also probably the cheapest, so tend to be the starting point for most.  

 

Going into commissioned manufacture of a model from scratch, particularly a loco, starts to get involved with much bigger sums of money upfront and obviously needs a proper business plan even if it starts with a 'I and my mates and other customers would like and Bachby aren't interested/are asking too much or demanding I buy far too many for what I think the demand will be ... etc'.  But, whichever, I suspect the choosing of a subject is far more sophisticated than we might think - and it has to be for financial reasons.  But no doubt it can still go awry when someone else comes to the same conclusions and also starts progressing what they happen to think is a marketable and profitable addition to or update of their range.

[jjb1970]

Something that must seem completely alien to people below about 30 or so is indeed the fact that not so long ago many department stores had a model section that would now probably be considered a good little model shop. Not just a token selection of Railroad items and Airfix gift set kits, but a proper selection of models in depth supported by paints, brushes, adhesives and basic tools. Seems a lifetime ago.

[jjb1970]

I don't know if it was just where I grew up or something wider, but bicycle shops and model shops seemed to go together at one time. I remember one bike shop in my home city that was equivalent to a full on model shop, although for plastic kits, not trains.

[Ozexpatriate]

An interesting perspective from one of my off-forum friends which looks back to earlier impacts on the hobby.

 

Every large town had a toy shop and smaller towns and villages sold toys (including model railways) through newsagents or other outlets such as bike shops or chemists (I know it seems unlikely but adverts from the time do exist). 

 

All those stockists, less choice and little in the way of discounts but as he says "were we happier then?".

Yes, I remember the Airfix kits hidden in Aladdin's Cave newsagents with the lotto tickets amongst the heady smells of pipe tobacco and newsprint and that's as far as the late 1970s. As I've mentioned, my first Hornby locomotive was originally purchased by a friend from a high street bicycle shop that sold model railways on the side (before he sold it on to me to buy a surfboard).

Edited January 18, 2017 by Ozexpatriate

[jjb1970]

One of my uncles used to have a small shop and sometimes when visiting him in Glasgow he'd take me to the cash and carry as they had a nice little plastic kit aisle because at that time many newsagents and small shops kept a selection of plastic kits. He'd buy me a kit or two at trade prices as a gift, happy days.

[Andy Y]

I used to go and buy some Wrenn items whilst topping up on shooting consumables - https://flic.kr/p/2DKjbq

[stovepipe]

I used to go and buy some Wrenn items whilst topping up on shooting consumables - https://flic.kr/p/2DKjbq

 

Amazingly these kind of shops still exist in the odd place.

 

http://www.windrowsports.co.uk/shop/

 

Catapults, slingshots, fishing rods, and guns for Dad ....... and models for Jonny.

[Roy Langridge]

I don't know if it was just where I grew up or something wider, but bicycle shops and model shops seemed to go together at one time. I remember one bike shop in my home city that was equivalent to a full on model shop, although for plastic kits, not trains.

I grew up going to Tolley's in Ash Vale. Bike shop, proper model shop (with railways) and a BL / Rover car dealership. Sadly now all long gone.

 

Roy

[Bernard Lamb]

In pre new town days Hemel had two shops that sold toys and models. One was also a newsagents and the other sold mainly wool and sewing material.

The bike shop had a large stand with Humbrol paint. As for prices being the same in all outlets, well not quite true as dad would bring home the odd item from various working trips to the Isle of Man (free of purchase tax). Very different days.

Bernard

[toboldlygo]

Amazingly these kind of shops still exist in the odd place.

 

http://www.windrowsports.co.uk/shop/

 

Catapults, slingshots, fishing rods, and guns for Dad ....... and models for Jonny.

 

Shouldn't that be the other way round?

 

Catapults.. ..Guns for Jonny... and models for Dad   

[Mike Storey]

I used to go and buy some Wrenn items whilst topping up on shooting consumables - https://flic.kr/p/2DKjbq

 

....when men were men, eh? Hardest game in the world, railway modelling then.

 

Some of these recollections are a little alien to me. It may be because most of my young life was in surburban London in the '60's, where you could buy the odd Airfix kit in a newsagents, but anything railway was from a model shop (like Beatties, W&H, Kings Cross etc) or from somewhere like Gamages or Hamleys. Just down the road from our house, we had a full-on toy shop, where I used to buy a Matchbox car or Airfix kit once a week, but they never had any model railways.

 

All I remember from my dad's attempt to build us a 00 model railway was that nothing really worked properly. He was quite a skilled modeller too. The motors stuck or the track was too dirty too often, and derailments on points were common. I was happy with the detail as I knew no different. But happy with running the layout, no. I built a couple myself in my teens, one in N, and one in 00. Was I happy with them? No. I was much happier with the thought of them and then the construction, but the reality was disappointing. In the last twenty years, I am much happier because the darn things work, more often than not.

 

I agree we do complicate things these days, but part of that is peer pressure (especially when drooling over what people have done on here) which for me originally came from drooling over what complete strangers had done at exhibitions ( very few of them in those days) and particularly in the Railway Modeller and MRC. Those Black and white photos tended to make many layouts look far better than they often were in the flesh. I used to be a perfectionist and that made me unhappy. Perhaps that is why I feel happier now?

[APOLLO]

I agree Mike regarding poor running of models back then - especially over Tri-ang (TT in my case) pointwork - full speed only !!!

 

There were many other small shops back then that made a "modellers" life a bit easier. A local TV repair shop sold wire offcuts and small switches, used ones were cheap & OK for 12V. A  do it yourself shop sold wood offcuts very cheaply, wood screws by the half dozen and Cascamite wood glue - mix with water to a snot like constituency (his words !!). No PVA back then.

 

No power tools also - (except my dads large Wolf electric soldering iron which melted the track), A Stanley knife was a luxury item costing one weeks pocket money !! - still have it, it'll last for ever.

 

I remember buying a new baseboard for my TT layout. An 8' x 4' sheet of 3/4" "Weyroc" cut down to 7'6" x 3' at the woodyard. Very heavy, and my mates helped me cart it through Town to home. I then walked back for the off cuts. No delivery service & wouldn't fit in dad's car. Imagine doing that today !!

 

Brit15

[Legend]

I think my first trainset came from an ironmongers. Hughes in Neilston Road Paisley , Back in the 60s . All model shops and stockists now disappeared but I've still got two very well stocked and helpful ironmongers close by. They seem to make a living. I wonder if introducing model Railways would give them a profitable new line . I suspect the only way to get a presence back is to have a shop within a shop, spreading the overheads. Similar to Bicycle shops mentioned elsewhere .

[RJS1977]

Hunts of Marlow did that for a while, but they closed that department down a few years ago.

[RJS1977]

I think shops choose their commissions on a far more careful basis that many of us might like to think because obviously part of their aim has to be to commission something which (they think) will sell and, in many cases. something which they believe they can readily research to the stage where it can be presented to the manufacturer.  Obviously re-liveries on concurrent runs by that manufacturer are one of the simplest ways to set about such a process, and are also probably the cheapest, so tend to be the starting point for most.  

 

Going into commissioned manufacture of a model from scratch, particularly a loco, starts to get involved with much bigger sums of money upfront and obviously needs a proper business plan even if it starts with a 'I and my mates and other customers would like and Bachby aren't interested/are asking too much or demanding I buy far too many for what I think the demand will be ... etc'.  But, whichever, I suspect the choosing of a subject is far more sophisticated than we might think - and it has to be for financial reasons.  But no doubt it can still go awry when someone else comes to the same conclusions and also starts progressing what they happen to think is a marketable and profitable addition to or update of their range.

 

On the subject of commissions, I do wonder why Hornby and Bachmann require minimum runs of 500 units for reliveries, whereas Dapol only require 100. I know of at least one potential customer who was lost to Hornby because they couldn't do as short a run as Dapol can. I can only think it must be something to do with Far East production v UK production/finishing.

[Andy Y]

On the subject of commissions, I do wonder why Hornby and Bachmann require minimum runs of 500 units for reliveries, whereas Dapol only require 100. I know of at least one potential customer who was lost to Hornby because they couldn't do as short a run as Dapol can. I can only think it must be something to do with Far East production v UK production/finishing.

 

Low quantity runs may be economic enough on single tampo printing processes but once you get into multiple applications such as Hornby/Bachmann do it ceases to be viable. To them the artwork creation and tampo set-ups aren't worth it for very short runs.

[Willie Whizz]

When I first began reading model railway magazines (in the late 70s) it seemed that every other layout - especially those that had been developed over a period of years - were operated using ex-RAF bomb-release panels obtained from scrapped Lancaster bombers, and ex-GPO telephone relay switches.  No-one ever explained how or from where you were supposed to obtain these miracles of technology, but I certainly found it somewhat off-putting to contemplate!

[Steamport Southport]

When I first began reading model railway magazines (in the late 70s) it seemed that every other layout - especially those that had been developed over a period of years - were operated using ex-RAF bomb-release panels obtained from scrapped Lancaster bombers, and ex-GPO telephone relay switches.  No-one ever explained how or from where you were supposed to obtain these miracles of technology, but I certainly found it somewhat off-putting to contemplate!

 

Even until relatively recently there were loads of electronic junk shops selling stuff like that. If your telly broke then you went to the junk shop to replace the valves. Nowadays it all goes straight to recycling.

 

My dad has spent the last 40 years proudly telling everyone about his collection of parts which came from Lancaster Bombers such as radios and a radar console. All still in the loft.

 

 

 

 

I definitely remember when you could go to your local newsagent to buy Airfix kits and Humbrol paints. Something which seemed to stop around about 1980ish. Used to be a regular source of income for the shop I suppose.

 

 

Jason

[APOLLO]

Yes indeed in 1950's / early 60's Railway Modeller mag, several "Layouts of the month" state that ex RAF aircraft bomb release switches were used in the control panel. Must have been a good supply back then. Incidentally 1 got 3 large panels full of multi contact switches,(ex GPO I think), the lot for a fiver back in the 80's from The Computer junk shop in Widnes. Still use them, 2 in loft & 1 in garage.

 

Not many (if any) shops like that these days - (especially in the swish shopping centres !!).

 

As to Hornby, well I'm not sure. An iconic brand that is now quite simply available to buy over the counter in many towns (and some Cities). A well discussed subject on here.

 

Brit15

Edited January 20, 2017 by APOLLO

[Mike Storey]

Even until relatively recently there were loads of electronic junk shops selling stuff like that. If your telly broke then you went to the junk shop to replace the valves. Nowadays it all goes straight to recycling.

 

My dad has spent the last 40 years proudly telling everyone about his collection of parts which came from Lancaster Bombers such as radios and a radar console. All still in the loft.

 

 

 

 

I definitely remember when you could go to your local newsagent to buy Airfix kits and Humbrol paints. Something which seemed to stop around about 1980ish. Used to be a regular source of income for the shop I suppose.

 

 

Jason

 

Indeed. My Dad obtained quite a bit of gear like that, and I still have a bank of his lovely, solid, clanking GPO switches to this day. On five different layouts, since his, they have never let me down,

[Phil Parker]

Yes indeed in 1950's / early 60's Railway Modeller mag, several "Layouts of the month" state that ex RAF aircraft bomb release switches were used in the control panel. Must have been a good supply back then. Incidentally 1 got 3 large panels full of multi contact switches,(ex GPO I think), the lot for a fiver back in the 80's from The Computer junk shop in Widnes. Still use them, 2 in loft & 1 in garage.

 

Not many (if any) shops like that these days - (especially in the swish shopping centres !!).

 

 

One of my railway modelling ambitions is to aquire the famous RAF bomb release panel to build into a layout. If anyone has a spare, let me know...

[MarkSG]

Something that must seem completely alien to people below about 30 or so is indeed the fact that not so long ago many department stores had a model section that would now probably be considered a good little model shop. Not just a token selection of Railroad items and Airfix gift set kits, but a proper selection of models in depth supported by paints, brushes, adhesives and basic tools. Seems a lifetime ago.

 

 

I don't know if it was just where I grew up or something wider, but bicycle shops and model shops seemed to go together at one time. I remember one bike shop in my home city that was equivalent to a full on model shop, although for plastic kits, not trains.

 

Both of those are very true in my experience. I still have some models, both kits and RTR, that I bought from John Lewis in Cambridge. These days, the only trains they sell, even on their website, are Brio and Thomas.

 

Meanwhile, the nearest stockist of model railway equipment to where I then lived was the City Cycle Centre in Ely. A lot of my stuff came from there. Actually, checking their website, they still do have a sizeable model department, which is somewhat gratifying to see. 

 

Model departments in larger shops are a bit of a fascinating subject in themselves. Where I now live, there's a shop which advertises itself as "toys, games, collectables and antiques". When I first moved in to the area, it had a reasonable selection of model railway equipment in the toys and games section. Then it almost all disappeared, only to make a small comeback a couple of years later. But almost all the accessories and add-ons have gone, their current stock is primarily train packs and sets plus a scattering of solo locos and wagons. Oddly enough, though, the stock they do have includes Bachmann and Dapol as well as Hornby, so they've clearly kept their accounts with those manufacturers rather than just getting stuff via wholesale. 

[Mike Storey]

Does anyone use Hobbycraft for any of their railway supplies? I occasionally look in on my visits, when buying mounting card or other modelling items, but their stock of railway items seems to vary widely in different stores, but is never extensive. But all Hornby, including Airfix and Humbrol. As the chain would seem an obvious substitute for the loss of local model railway shops in many areas, I wonder why no other brands are stocked, or whether this has ever been tried?

[Bernard Lamb]

Does anyone use Hobbycraft for any of their railway supplies? I occasionally look in on my visits, when buying mounting card or other modelling items, but their stock of railway items seems to vary widely in different stores, but is never extensive. But all Hornby, including Airfix and Humbrol. As the chain would seem an obvious substitute for the loss of local model railway shops in many areas, I wonder why no other brands are stocked, or whether this has ever been tried?

They do seem to be a very well run business catering for a very particular market. I presume that they have investigated the model railway market and found that the margins are not very attractive, that supplies are very variable and unreliable and that the volumes simply do not add up.

Bernard