Bachmann announcements

[melmerby]

 

I also don't think that they could technically offer any of this model in LMS livery, because this verson with the modified smokebox saddle only appeared in BR days, in LMS days they all had large boilers.

 

But hey, a R-T-R 7F - who cares?!

 

Essery & Jenkinson (LMS locomotives Vol.1 plate 113) Shows 9680 (later 53810) at Bath in 1930 after receiving a small boiler with packing pieces.

 

Is that the same form as Bachmanns proposed model?

 

Keith

[neal]

I'm really happy with this year's announcements,

 

 

An SMJ branch with a 3F is now a strong possibility. My Somerset roots will give me an ideal excuse for a 7F to find it's way to the Kitwhistle main line.

 

And as a regular commuter from Northampton, the Desiro will also be a strong temptation (although I will have to go for the third rail variant!)

 

 

Perhaps another DMU might be queried in lieu of some new coaching stock, but thank god we have avoided duplication this year!

 

 

I think this is the first time a new Bachmann model has been released with a weathered version in it's first year. With a limited number of prototypes, this might undermine longer term demand for the 7F, although as mentioned elsewhere the Prussian Blue livery may be held back for future years.

 

 

Still waiting for the 4F and westernised ROD, but by no means disappointed.

 

 

N

[LH&JC]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Prussian blue version was released as a collectors club Ltd edition. Of course that's just my cynical look on such matters.

[The Stationmaster]

Oh wow !!!

 

I'd not looked at the "accessories" until now but this shed is very much going to be a popular addition. No purpose for it on my layout but it'll certainly have to be acquired for either a diorama, or a future unplanned project. Definately a Bescot or Stafford type shed to my untrained eye.

 

 

'Typical' latterday LMS/LMR design - in many respects the final pattern Hornby-Dublo one but with proper 'brick' walls and realistically coloured concrete lintels etc. Looks rather nice but alas the 'wrong' railway for me (unless I revive that layout plan I was gradually turning into something more solid about 30 years back - and I've still got most of the signals for it somewhere ).

[Blue Horizon]

Having just looked through my Ivo Peters S&D book collection I came across a photo taken at Midford goods yard on the 25th May 1958 of a Whit Sunday excursion formed of an 8 car DMU. Can anyone confirm what looks to me like a.......Derby Lightweight in 4 2-car sets, which if it is Bachmann really have gone for an S&D theme this year. (plate 160 in 'The Somerset and Dorset in the Fifties' Volume Two-1955-1959)

Not really up on DMU's so it may be a close relative. No doubt you guys will confirm one way or other.

[Pennine MC]

John, I dont have that book but I have seen a shot (possibly even that shot) elsewhere, showing (IIRC) a 4x2 formation of Lightweights on the S&D

 

Also, from the Railcar site:

 

Eric Stuart adds:

 

...

 

A set (3x2?), presumably ones based in Brum, did an excursion (to Bournmouth, I think) over the S&D, probably one of the few dmu runs over that line (for which, in passing, I think they would have been very suitable). Allegedly, an ex-railwayman reported the train as being stock that had "run away," as he saw it moving downhill without a loco at the front!!!"

[craigwelsh]

After the thread following the Hornby announcement on why they can't do bog standard wagons it seems they now definately can't do one of the most popular types! As long as they haven't been madly trenched i'll have a couple of the opens, especially the one with the wooden doors. The vans though i'll stick to Parkside as the Bachmann 12t I had to compare was a bit too crude to mix in with them ok.

 

I don't really see the 7F as a shock as it is quite a popular loco with most enthusiasts and 88 at least has toured around a few railways. Hopefully the Prussian Blue example wont be too limited if it is done as its bound to do well.

 

The 3F is an interesting one with a few people expecting a 4F really! One for the future there though and presumably it can use the exiting Fowler tender then?

 

Its a pity not to have the GWR heavy freight tanks yet I guess but I have enough to build for now without them turning up.

 

Derby lightweight isn't much good (116's i need ) but the 85 would look nice on the shelf in original condition with the cast emblems on the side. I was expecting them to get a 87 in before Heljan but I suppose the 85 will cover the 'core' market well and also allow enough livery variants in itself.

 

Sheep sound good and also the 60s coal miners will be useful unless they are actually mining - i'm not building baseboards 10 metres tall to fit them in!

 

The lack of a Class 14 is a pity as the N gauge one is looking better than the Heljan 00 attempt. Its interesting Bachmann have used the data from the NRM 'Deltic' to do an N gauge one now.

[Guest Phil]

It looks like a very good line-up. I am sure that, even though there nothing there that fits-in with what I try to model, I will end up getting a few of this year's releases.

After all why do I have a 4-CEP running to Plymouth in 1951?

 

For the boat trains out of Millbay of course. D'you think we're stoooopid ?

 

:lol:

[spackz]

Just pre ordered the 4 road engine shed and electric blue class 85 £152 ouch, looks like my slaters plastikard will have to be used on the backscene buildings instead of building a 4 road engine shed that was initially planned, only two weeks ago, shame I didn't use my foresight power.

[Chris Nevard]

Just like Xmas all over again - but with items that might prompt a few moths to escape from my wallet.....

For SDJR fans here are selection of snaps taken of a 7F on 'The Midland Mainline' http://www.sdrt.org/gallery/index_historical_07.htm

They're pre-war so the loco will need a bit of modification (bigger boiler for starters) - but's that's half the fun isn't it? :icon_lol:

[Alco]

I suspect the ash plant was a late inclusion. Hornby announced a coal tower, Bachmann then followed with an early announcement for a Scalescene coal tower. Hornby then announced (last Friday) they were also producing an ash plant. Bachmann responds with 44-086 being announced on Sunday (note no photograph). We used to call it "tit for tat" in the good old days.

 

Regards

Bob

 

And also an Ash Plant (44-086) though no picture as yet.

[Guest Max Stafford]

I fear my plans for Inchkennet may now involve a shed rather than a goods yard!

 

Dave.

[phil gollin]

 

......... Predicting that certain money grabbing retailers will be frothing at the possibility of some of these new models being brought out in limited editions ...............

 

............. also good to see that a second run with new numbers of the 4-CEP's are planned.

 

 

I am extremely pleased to see the "re-numbered" 4-CEPs, after all they were Electric MULTIPLE Units.

 

However, I was surprised that there are no 2-EPBs in "green with yellow ends" to match the 4-CEP variations. I presume some retailer will end up producing this variation. Likewise 4-EPBs might have been expected, but I suppose they will need the initial sales of the 2-EPB to have occured before they are, hopefully, announced.

 

.

[Electrostar]

Hi all. First-time poster here. I hadn't bought a model in years until Christmas when I saw the Bachmann 4Cep. Having grown up surrounded by Southern slam-door stock I always dreamt of one day being able to model the prototypes around me. I used to stare in awe at the pages of Railway Modeller when they featured such layouts as Maidstone Barracks and begrudged Lima and Hornby for only producing multiple units alien to me. Bachmann's decision to produce the 4Cep, the 2EPB and now the 450 has drawn me back to the hobby. They've taken a huge risk but I'm sure one which will pay off.

 

Does anyone know or able estimate when we can expect the renumbered Ceps?The last timeI had a layout Lima were producing new liveries every fortnight - as illustrated by their adverts on the back cover of Rail magazine at the time. From what I've read on this forum it seems those days are behind us and many here weren't expecting Bachmann to renumber this excellent new model. As someone else wrote these are "multiple" units.

[BernardTPM]

the 60s coal miners will be useful unless they are actually mining - i'm not building baseboards 10 metres tall to fit them in!

 

As they're listed as 60s/70s miners, perhaps they are on strike and picketing

[The Stationmaster]

Just like Xmas all over again - but with items that might prompt a few moths to escape from my wallet.....

For SDJR fans here are selection of snaps taken of a 7F on 'The Midland Mainline' http://www.sdrt.org/gallery/index_historical_07.htm

They're pre-war so the loco will need a bit of modification (bigger boiler for starters) - but's that's half the fun isn't it? :icon_lol:

 

 

That'un be a small boiler'd 'un (The MML trials of No.85 were held in 1918, first big boilered loco was No.86 in 1925, but then No.85 was right hand drive - as has already been said these locos were a bit of a detail minefield. Not of course that I can remember any of that as it is well over 40 years since I saw them in BR condition on shed in Bath .)

[Caledonian]

Okaay… time to read and inwardly digest.

 

First impressions; a well thought out and reasonably balanced looking collection with an awful lot of new Scenecraft; presumably because its cheap and easy to make, looks better than Skaledale and sells – well I prefer it anyway.

 

Ex-LNER wagons and vans; a definite stirring of real interest there, but nothing in the way of locomotives, a shame, but…

 

Both Hornby and Bachmann are clearly into taking the notion of themes beyond releasing more than one model for a particular region in any one year. From Hornby we’re promised a B17 and L1 and a Great Northern Station pack to go with them, while Bachmann are offering Southern structures to go with their new electrics, which is all very sensible and much to be applauded – if you model Southern Railway/region or GNR/Eastern. An S&DJR theme is also emerging from Bachmann, which again is fine if that’s your chosen area or something you could be tempted to try, but it does nothing for the rest of us.

 

This shouldn’t, however, be taken as a rant, but it does put the knockers on the oft encountered theory that a proposed locomotive type has to be one which saw widespread geographical and temporal usage in order to appeal to a sufficiently broad cross section of modellers to be viable.

 

We’re told Dennis Lovett of Bachmann expressed wariness as to proposals for Scottish locomotives because, amongst other things, they were too limited geographically. That’s arguable, and demonstrably untrue in the case of the three identified in our poll, but either way you don’t get more limited or parochial than the S&DJR.

 

So, if the S&DJR can sell, why not the Waverley line or any of the other Scottish ones. It may be that messrs Hornby and Bachmann might do their arcane sums and conclude that Scotland won’t sell (which would probably come as a surprise to the tourist board), but the argument that localised train sets won’t sell clearly doesn’t hold water.

 

Perhaps in memorialising Hornby and Bachmann on Scottish locos we should also have added some North British stations or Highland signal boxes

[Glorious NSE]

I suspect what this does for you Stuart is gives you more, not less hope that they will get round to less obvious but worthy prototypes eventually.

 

We'd been told for years that EMU's will not sell

 

We'd been told for years that they won't do AC electric loco's because they won't sell (and I guess you have to look at the 85 as a "taster" in the same way as the CEP is for MU's - we'll see!)

 

Yet here we are - a new world order, the old rules don't apply, or at least they don't work in the same way as they used to.

 

 

[Caledonian]

I suspect what this does for you Stuart is gives you more, not less hope that they will get round to less obvious but worthy prototypes eventually.

 

We'd been told for years that EMU's will not sell

 

We'd been told for years that they won't do AC electric loco's because they won't sell (and I guess you have to look at the 85 as a "taster" in the same way as the CEP is for MU's - we'll see!)

 

Yet here we are - a new world order, the old rules don't apply, or at least they don't work in the same way as they used to.

 

Yes, that's exactly my point. If the manufacturers are looking at say Southern train sets this year - locomotives, coaches and stations - and S&DJR next year, then there's no reason why they shouldn't do a Caledonian or North British one the year after that.

[Captain Kernow]

Essery & Jenkinson (LMS locomotives Vol.1 plate 113) Shows 9680 (later 53810) at Bath in 1930 after receiving a small boiler with packing pieces.

 

Is that the same form as Bachmanns proposed model?

Will have to check that out when I get home, but I didn't think that they changed boilers so early, after all, they'd only have had a a few years life out of the original larger boiler, but the camera didn't lie in those days....

[Captain Kernow]

Notwithstanding the fact that a lot of layouts are going to suddenly start featuring a 4 road LMS/LMR type loco shed, I do think that one of these might form the basis for what used to be called 'Layout No.4' - 'Bath Midland Road Shed' - a joint LMR/WR shed on a connecting line between the Midland line and GW line at Bath, replacing the small single track ex-GW shed and taking some of the pressure off Bath Green Park. It was going to be built after Burrowbridge, back in the days before I had thought of doing P4 and 'Callow Lane'....

[The Stationmaster]

Okaay… time to read and inwardly digest.

 

Both Hornby and Bachmann are clearly into taking the notion of themes beyond releasing more than one model for a particular region in any one year. From Hornby we’re promised a B17 and L1 and a Great Northern Station pack to go with them, while Bachmann are offering Southern structures to go with their new electrics, which is all very sensible and much to be applauded – if you model Southern Railway/region or GNR/Eastern. An S&DJR theme is also emerging from Bachmann, which again is fine if that’s your chosen area or something you could be tempted to try, but it does nothing for the rest of us.

 

This shouldn’t, however, be taken as a rant, but it does put the knockers on the oft encountered theory that a proposed locomotive type has to be one which saw widespread geographical and temporal usage in order to appeal to a sufficiently broad cross section of modellers to be viable.

 

We’re told Dennis Lovett of Bachmann expressed wariness as to proposals for Scottish locomotives because, amongst other things, they were too limited geographically. That’s arguable, and demonstrably untrue in the case of the three identified in our poll, but either way you don’t get more limited or parochial than the S&DJR.

 

So, if the S&DJR can sell, why not the Waverley line or any of the other Scottish ones. It may be that messrs Hornby and Bachmann might do their arcane sums and conclude that Scotland won’t sell (which would probably come as a surprise to the tourist board), but the argument that localised train sets won’t sell clearly doesn’t hold water.

 

Perhaps in memorialising Hornby and Bachmann on Scottish locos we should also have added some North British stations or Highland signal boxes

 

I wonder if there is a different factor also at work here - the level of contact the manufacturers have with their market?

 

While the internet has clearly made a difference (perhaps more so with manufactturer choices over the last couple of years than ever before) it is not the sole source of input, nor are wish lists. The manufacturers have reps - who garner retailer opinion plus express views of their own - and they attend exhibitions where they are directly in contact with potential customers. So the weight of the latter will depend on the weight of views expressed at exhibitions and taht will to some extent be influenced by the locations where the exhibitions which they attend are held and who attends. For (an extreme)example I bet Simon Kohler gets more personal representations about Western, Southern, and probably S&D, stuff when he's down at Swindon each year than is likely when he's somewhere 'up north'. So does geographical distribution come into setting the wight of requests for anything I wonder?

 

Then there is the simplest measure of all in the hands of manufacturers - sales. Ok so if they don't make anything 'Scottish' they are not going to sell anything 'Scottish but surely what they do sell must give them some idea of the shape of the market, and give their accountants more than a hint of what is most profitable.

 

And that raises another point - are the accountants just as likely to measure 'interest in Scottish models' by current total sales in Scotland as they are by any other measure (yes, some market research data really does work like that).

 

The answer is in fact very simple - do a Chris Trerice and put your money where the customers' mouths are. Beattie well tanks are very attractive but their latterday area of normal operation was even shorter than the S&DJR and there were only 3 of 'em, but they're coming to market. If 'a Scottish loco' is going to be a marketing success then it must surely be worth investing in - even if only by placing sufficient advanced orders and cash deposits to finance the project?

[Philip Jackson]

Soooo, got my order in for an evening star. Would have liked to see a new Class 55 Deltic, preferably a white cabbed racehorse but I guess there are quite a few unsold examples in the shops. I'll have to have a go at renumbering I guess.

[The Stationmaster]

Will have to check that out when I get home, but I didn't think that they changed boilers so early, after all, they'd only have had a a few years life out of the original larger boiler, but the camera didn't lie in those days....

 

 

9680/13810 was reboilered c.1929 following the discovery of a defect in the firebox of the original large boiler - a packing piece was inserted on the original smokebox saddle and this is noticeably different from the smokebox saddle of the original small boilered locos (and of course it was also left hand drive. As might already have been said the Bachmann model, going by the numbers quoted by Andy, is a re-boilered version of what was originally a large boilered loco and should be lhd; two were reboilered in 1929 and the remainder between 1953 and 1955).

[BernardTPM]

Yes, that's exactly my point. If the manufacturers are looking at say Southern train sets this year - locomotives, coaches and stations - and S&DJR next year, then there's no reason why they shouldn't do a Caledonian or North British one the year after that.

 

The stations aren't Southern, they're London Transport; the signal box is Southern, though.

 

Perhaps a set of West Highland style buildings would sell well...