Cooper craft - Cautionary notes for customers - Its fate and thoughts on an alternative

[TheTurfBurner]

I fear you will be wasting more time. I have already tried this and made them aware that they are providing hosting for a trader who does not have the capacity to honour transactions made via their devices and equipment.

 

They passed the buck and are obviously quite happy to continue hosting the site as long as they see some of his money (and stuff those who don't).

 

I certainly would not allow him to trade at any event I have anything to do with whilst there are unresolved complaints and legal action and would hope that other exhibition managers would take a similar view.

 

I will try them anyway - but am surprised if they are getting any money from Dunn for a web site which has not been updated since 2014 (last list of exhibitions he was attending).

 

Hopefully event organisers will see these posts and act accordingly.

Edited October 30, 2017 by TheTurfBurner

[Ryde-on-time]

Looking at Worldpay, there complaints page is here

 

https://www.worldpay.com/uk/about/contact-us/complaints

 

They also have the Terms that Cooper-craft should abide by with his obligations on page 10

 

http://www.worldpay.com/sites/default/files/WPUK-sme-terms-conditions-2015.pdf

 

A couple of parts stand out in the terms:

 

"3.1. You shall at all times comply with: (B) all Applicable Law, including those requirements which apply to the sale of goods and/or services by you in connection with the Transactions and the execution and performance by you of"

 

& 

 

"3.2. You shall: (J) refrain from doing anything which we reasonably believe to be disreputable or capable of damaging the reputation or goodwill of us, or any Other Financial Institution, Other Payments Organisation or the Card Schemes"

[Joseph_Pestell]

 

Lots of good and helpful comments there – much appreciated.

As for bankruptcy petitions, freezing orders or taking a charge over property – first, the amount owed is really not worth it and second, these would probably involve the expense of a Solicitors – which again is simply not worth it.

I am annoyed I have thrown good money after bad but take the positive view that I have exposed Dunn for the unsavoury character he clearly is. Anybody dealing with Dunn through the Cooper Craft web site can now be in no doubt he is a person lacking in any conscience or moral compass. He will take your money and give you nothing in return.

Getting the bailiffs to approach him at a show may well be the best option – subject to knowing he will attend (the web site has not been updated for years, so it’s a question of trawling through show web sites to see which he is attending) and then giving the Court enough notice so they can take action. In the end, I’ll probably find that bailiffs do not work on Saturday!

What I propose to do in the short term is contact his web site provider, acquaint them with the situation and suggest this is not the sort of business they should be hosting. You will know if I am successful if the web site disappears.

 

 

I have forgotten how much the sum was and how you paid it.

 

In one way, I agree with Andy Y that Exhibition Managers should not accommodate him. But then again, pity to deny bailiffs the chance to get at him.

 

As per earlier posts, he was at Railwells. Wonder if he may be planning to turn up at their event on Saturday.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Joseph_Pestell

[chrisf]

He is not on the list.

 

Chris

[jcm@gwr]

Just a thought, does anyone know a computer whizz-kid,

someone I knew had a problem with a property developer,

very difficult to resolve the problem with him.

So, he got a computer wise mate to add a link, so every

time somebody went to his website, it re-directed them to

another site that warned them about him (it only included

facts about him and his business, so no chance of being

done for libel!)

[Joseph_Pestell]

Just a thought, does anyone know a computer whizz-kid,

someone I knew had a problem with a property developer,

very difficult to resolve the problem with him.

So, he got a computer wise mate to add a link, so every

time somebody went to his website, it re-directed them to

another site that warned them about him (it only included

facts about him and his business, so no chance of being

done for libel!)

Something being true is not necessarily a valid defence in a defamation case.

 

So I would advise caution. But technically quite easy to do on some websites and I would guess that Mr Dunn is not much of an IT person.

[hayfield]

 

Lots of good and helpful comments there – much appreciated.

As for bankruptcy petitions, freezing orders or taking a charge over property – first, the amount owed is really not worth it and second, these would probably involve the expense of a Solicitors – which again is simply not worth it.

I am annoyed I have thrown good money after bad but take the positive view that I have exposed Dunn for the unsavoury character he clearly is. Anybody dealing with Dunn through the Cooper Craft web site can now be in no doubt he is a person lacking in any conscience or moral compass. He will take your money and give you nothing in return.

Getting the bailiffs to approach him at a show may well be the best option – subject to knowing he will attend (the web site has not been updated for years, so it’s a question of trawling through show web sites to see which he is attending) and then giving the Court enough notice so they can take action. In the end, I’ll probably find that bailiffs do not work on Saturday!

What I propose to do in the short term is contact his web site provider, acquaint them with the situation and suggest this is not the sort of business they should be hosting. You will know if I am successful if the web site disappears.

 

 

 

How did you pay for the items ? There is a thing you can use on both debit and credit cards (under £100) called charge back. It will be worth while contacting the company which you used to paid for the item, I would expect the likes of Visa and Mastercard to be a bit concerned about possible future issues

 

Another avenue is trading standards may be interested, especially about abusing the distance trading rules

 

Did you pay him as a sole trader or a limited company 

[Kelly]

How did you pay for the items ? There is a thing you can use on both debit and credit cards (under £100) called charge back. It will be worth while contacting the company which you used to paid for the item, I would expect the likes of Visa and Mastercard to be a bit concerned about possible future issues

 

Another avenue is trading standards may be interested, especially about abusing the distance trading rules

 

Did you pay him as a sole trader or a limited company

I think that might only apply if you paid him directly and not via PayPal or Worldpay. They are deemed to be who you paid by credit card companies usually, which means such transactions don't usually have the normal credit card protection you'd expect.

 

Trading standards in his local area might be interested, but it depends how much evidence there is and getting enough complaints for them to do much as they likely have very little staff these days.

[Colin_McLeod]

Being true IS a defence against a libel case. The difficult part is proving that something is true.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Being true IS a defence against a libel case. The difficult part is proving that something is true.

 

Yes. it is a defence. But not one that guarantees the case will be found in your favour.

[pete_mcfarlane]

Yes. it is a defence. But not one that guarantees the case will be found in your favour.

See 'Robert Maxwell v Private Eye Magazine' for more details.....

[johnarcher]

I think that might only apply if you paid him directly and not via PayPal or Worldpay. They are deemed to be who you paid by credit card companies usually, which means such transactions don't usually have the normal credit card protection you'd expect.

 

Trading standards in his local area might be interested, but it depends how much evidence there is and getting enough complaints for them to do much as they likely have very little staff these days.

Can't you do charge-back through Paypal?  I'm sure I've read of sellers on eBay complaining that payments were charged back through Paypal even a month or more after the sale, maybe because the buyer decided there was a fault,  but didn't even return the item to prove that.

[Kelly]

Can't you do charge-back through Paypal? I'm sure I've read of sellers on eBay complaining that payments were charged back through Paypal even a month or more after the sale, maybe because the buyer decided there was a fault, but didn't even return the item to prove that.

You have buyer protection with PayPal. However, it depends on certain factors.

 

If you buy something from someone who has no business account with them, you get less protection.

 

If you use an unverified address for delivery, you get less protection.

 

There are other factors too, most importantly it is time limited too.

 

If you pay by installments, you won't get protection for the entire amount, only the final payment.

 

You have to put a claim to them within 90 days of the first payment, so if you give too much leeway you lose your chance to claim.

 

However, if PayPal find in your favour, they will pay you, and then use their legal team to chase the seller (whether a business or on eBay) for it.

[Colin_McLeod]

Yes. it is a defence. But not one that guarantees the case will be found in your favour.

I don't understand. If something is a defence then it will guarantee that the case will be found in the defendant's favour. As I said earlier, the difficult part is proving that it is true.

[hayfield]

I think that might only apply if you paid him directly and not via PayPal or Worldpay. They are deemed to be who you paid by credit card companies usually, which means such transactions don't usually have the normal credit card protection you'd expect.

 

Trading standards in his local area might be interested, but it depends how much evidence there is and getting enough complaints for them to do much as they likely have very little staff these days.

 

 

One thing that may shake up both trading standards and Worldpay is if all those affected joined together and contacted both groups  with their complaints against this person. An RMWeb Group in what I think is called a Class Action

[kandc_au]

I emailed Turfburner privately and suggested the same thing.
I think anyone who has been burned by Coopercraft should all pool in with their resources to get this sorted once and for all.

While each affected person my only be done for small amounts , I suspect if it was totaled it would be a large amount.

Given the response to the Bailiffs, he is obviously quite clued up on his own rights without giving a stuff for anyone else.
Remember,no matter what way you look at it, it is THEFT!

 

Khris

[Ryde-on-time]

One thing that may shake up both trading standards and Worldpay is if all those affected joined together and contacted both groups  with their complaints against this person. An RMWeb Group in what I think is called a Class Action

 

I agree that that would be the best way going forward to stop his dubious business practices

 

If enough people separately reported him to Worldpay, trading standards (and perhaps Action fraud?) then perhaps something might happen. Getting the facility to accept payments withdrawn would hopefully cause him serious problems

 

All he has to do to trade correctly would be to allow people to order on his website without paying (as he suggests customer should do but as he must be fully aware is not possible), or just list the items he has in stock 

[Gt.Shefford]

I would suggest the next course of action is to involve Trading Standards as they are the body best placed to take this matter forward. The fact that there are now several unsatisfied CCJ's against the business and individuals connected to the business (source: Experian business report) and the apparent lack of interest shown by World Pay in enforcing their own terms and conditions (I say apparent as we do not know what if any communication have taken place between the vendor and Worldpay) coupled with the ambiguous purchasing instructions with reference to 'buy/order now pay later'.

 

Surely this last point must fall within the scope of the 'Consumer protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008' mainly:

 

Misleading actions

5.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).

(2) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph—

(a)if it contains false information and is therefore untruthful in relation to any of the matters in paragraph (4) or if it or its overall presentation in any way deceives or is likely to deceive the average consumer in relation to any of the matters in that paragraph, even if the information is factually correct; and

 

(b)it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

 

 

As a side issue It would be interesting to discover what connection exists between Cooper Craft and Ford Nursery (the plant wholesaler) as they both trade from the same address and neither is Limited.  

 

Jonathan

[Jol Wilkinson]

Anyone thought of contacting "Rip Off Britain"? Probably do no good but might help let to a bit of steam.

 

I think that this problem will probably come to a natural conclusion as the business seems to be steadily slowing/failing. The more done to publicise the problems in dealing with Coopercraft will hasten its demise.

 

Those who are out of pocket will probably and sadly remain so. 

Edited October 31, 2017 by Jol Wilkinson

[Joseph_Pestell]

I don't understand. If something is a defence then it will guarantee that the case will be found in the defendant's favour. As I said earlier, the difficult part is proving that it is true.

We are in danger of going OT. And there are folks on here who are legal professionals with better knowledge than mine.

 

But, as simply as I can explain it, defamation (libel/slander) is about a bit more than whether what you say is provably true or not. The question of your motives for disclosing the information also comes into it.

[Gt.Shefford]

Sadly i think Jol is correct in that its only a matter of time before the business folds, and when this does happen, it will more than likely take several other ranges with it.  

[Siberian Snooper]

Sadly i think Jol is correct in that its only a matter of time before the business folds, and when this does happen, it will more than likely take several other ranges with it.

 

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you, which is a pity as the ranges covered are very useful to the majority of us modellers. A really sorry state of affairs.

[hayfield]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you, which is a pity as the ranges covered are very useful to the majority of us modellers. A really sorry state of affairs.

 

Are the remaining moulds any good? if so and the business folds might be an opportunity for someone

[Horsetan]

Are the remaining moulds any good? if so and the business folds might be an opportunity for someone

Not if he scraps them first.

[Gt.Shefford]

And it won't be through lack of support, offers of help/assistance both technical and financial from the modelling community. Privately, I suggest we've all been hoping for some positive news about the molding machine, but recent events have only confirmed the worst. All we can do now is wait for the inevitable and hope that a company like Slaters or Peco are ready to jump in and buy up the assets.

 

Jonathan