New Crowdfunded Class 86 or Class 87

[Suzie]

Presumably in the same light that every manufacturer has to have a 47, they all now have to have an 86 in the range.

[No Decorum]

So, to summarise:

 

DJ Models has pulled out;
Heljan isn’t interested;
Bachmann has stopped producing new stuff in order to catch up;
Hornby has postponed and cancelled new stuff in order to balance the books;
Rapido seems to be working on a multiple unit;
Realtrack likewise.

 

That leaves Oxford and Dapol.
Oxford producing something to pull its Mk. IIIs makes sense.
Dapol has put its skates on with 68s and 59s. Perhaps an AC electric to follow?

 

Of course, Bachmann and Hornby could just have them on hold.

[Removed a/c]

I was thinking of Bachmann, but then they have progresses almost nowhere with the Class 90...will they announce more?

 

A Class 86 from Heljan is impossible. I've had several chats with them and they were very clear that they weren't interested in it at all.

Or Heljan are keeping their cards very close to their chest. 

[Dagworth]

 

Dapol has put its skates on with 68s and 59s. Perhaps an AC electric to follow?

 

Wouldn't it make sense for Dapol to do the 88? (Or has that already been announced and I've missed it?)

 

Andi

[Removed a/c]

Who said Heljan aren't interested? I asked them about the 86 a couple of years ago. They said there were no plans to re-release it but they wouldn't rule it out. 

 

If they aren't ready to announce or saving it for one of the major shows of course they will deny it. 

[MGR Hooper!]

Wouldn't it make sense for Dapol to do the 88? (Or has that already been announced and I've missed it?)

 

Andi

They have their intentions of doing it! And DRS have given them the permission to do so.

[MGR Hooper!]

Or Heljan are keeping their cards very close to their chest. 

 

 

Who said Heljan aren't interested? I asked them about the 86 a couple of years ago. They said there were no plans to re-release it but they wouldn't rule it out. 

 

If they aren't ready to announce or saving it for one of the major shows of course they will deny it. 

Simply quoted what I was told by them on numerous occasions via social media and all. Initially I was simply told thanks for livery suggestions. But as many raised the issues regarding the model, I was told they have no plans to correct it nor do they have any plans to release more due to disappointing sales.

 

I was simply passing on info I was told.

 

If they're doing one I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[wombatofludham]

Perhaps Heljan are doing an O scale 86?

 

Wibble....

[newbryford]

They have their intentions of doing it! And DRS have given them the permission to do so.

 

Have they?

 

ISTR Dave (at the time when he was working for Dapol) announced that they had secured the 68, but not necessarily the 88. (Although in view of the huge commonality between the 68/88, it does make sense for Dapol to do the 88)

 

Cheers,

Mick

[sub39h]

Simply quoted what I was told by them on numerous occasions via social media and all. Initially I was simply told thanks for livery suggestions. But as many raised the issues regarding the model, I was told they have no plans to correct it nor do they have any plans to release more due to disappointing sales.

 

I was simply passing on info I was told.

 

If they're doing one I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

The first time I asked them a couple of years ago I was told they weren't interested. But with the release of catenary by Peco and Dapol and Bachmann doing the 85 and announcing the 90 I wrote to them again and they were much more positive. They've already done a lot of the work already after all.

 

I think Dapol for the 86 is a fair suggestion too though given they already have an N gauge one.

[JSpencer]

So, to summarise:

 

DJ Models has pulled out;

Heljan isn’t interested;

Bachmann has stopped producing new stuff in order to catch up;

Hornby has postponed and cancelled new stuff in order to balance the books;

Rapido seems to be working on a multiple unit;

Realtrack likewise.

 

That leaves Oxford and Dapol.

Oxford producing something to pull its Mk. IIIs makes sense.

Dapol has put its skates on with 68s and 59s. Perhaps an AC electric to follow?

 

Of course, Bachmann and Hornby could just have them on hold.

There were some hints a couple of years back that Bachmann could follow the 90 with a class 87. Now they getting back into gear again, we'll see.

 

Hornby's financial position has brought some projects to a standstill. None the less it would surprise me if either class was in the works following on from their well recieved (but did they sell?) class 71.

 

Oxfordrail detonatly need something to go with their Mk3s and Motorail wagons, so could either planned. The problem though is that none of their 3 locos to date are spot ( though the diesel does look good in my eyes), often having some easily avoidable flaw. They just need to pay a little more attention and certainly do not want to end up with a model no better than Heljans.

 

Dapol would be too slow but not unlikely IMHO.

 

Don,t forget SLW. They could easily surprise us all with an excellent model, ready to buy at Warley!

[Andy Mac]

Well the two manufacturers doing the 86/87's will now definitely know that they have some completion!!!

So I reckon we'll get an announcement, or as things have progressed to in these times, an announcement about an announcement!

 

My gut feeling is Oxford rail and one of the others.....

 

Doubt it's SLW, as I'm hoping they will release the class 25 next!

RealTrack probably working on a multiple unit.....

Rapido, probably a multiple unit or diesel....

 

All the rest seem like contenders!

 

Time will tell!

[MGR Hooper!]

There were some hints a couple of years back that Bachmann could follow the 90 with a class 87...

All I've been hearing is speculation from modelers and not really hints..Something on the lines of the chassis and bogie dimensions being the same and so the Class 87 was simply speculated!

[298]

There were some hints a couple of years back that Bachmann could follow the 90 with a class 87. Now they getting back into gear again, we'll see.

 

And likewise the 81 could follow the 85.

 

Perhaps mention of the 90 was to stake a claim, and while it's still on the drawing board they jump in with the other loco as it'd be a guaranteed seller.

[scottrains29]

I'm surprised Heljan have given up on their 86. They must have spent thousands on the r&d and tooling etc. I'd very much doubt the first releases would have covered these costs.

When Bachmann released their 37 and 150 it was met with some criticism. They then quickly retooled them, fixing the mistakes of the first examples. As far as I know the Heljan 86 chassis was good, it was only the body that had some errors. Recent eBay sales have shown there is a high demand for the inaccurate Heljan 86 with prices going past £100. If I was In charge at Heljan I'd have fixed the body issues and re-released the 86 asap.

[phil-b259]

I'm surprised Heljan have given up on their 86. They must have spent thousands on the r&d and tooling etc. I'd very much doubt the first releases would have covered these costs.

When Bachmann released their 37 and 150 it was met with some criticism. They then quickly retooled them, fixing the mistakes of the first examples. As far as I know the Heljan 86 chassis was good, it was only the body that had some errors. Recent eBay sales have shown there is a high demand for the inaccurate Heljan 86 with prices going past £100. If I was In charge at Heljan I'd have fixed the body issues and re-released the 86 asap.

 

But if Heljan had heard the rumours as well - why waste money triplicating the work of somebody else? Yes it may be that they could hit the shelves first, but if you are an accountant looking at the figures is it really worthwhile?

 

Its very easy for the modelling community to point to e-bay sales and say XYZ is in demand but unless you also have an insiders view of a manufacturers accounts, future plans, manufacturing capacity, etc. what happens on e-bay is pretty irrelevant.

[scottrains29]

But if Heljan had heard the rumours as well - why waste money triplicating the work of somebody else?

Perhaps Heljan IS one of the manufacturers! After all they have already invested money on r&d. Maybe an updated version was always on their to do list.

[steve fay]

Back to the 92 Dave any idea on livery options? I'd like one as new out of the box.

Apparently one is heading off to Switzerland next year to test out the new CAF MK5 coaches and a batch are to be fitted with dellner couplings !!! There's another option for you!!

[DJM Dave]

Back to the 92 Dave any idea on livery options? I'd like one as new out of the box.

Apparently one is heading off to Switzerland next year to test out the new CAF MK5 coaches and a batch are to be fitted with dellner couplings !!! There's another option for you!!

Hi Steve,

 

I'll post livery options for crowd funders later this week (probably Friday as I'm away this next 3 days with business), but I ones I've chosen cover a great 'spread' of liveries and era's.

 

Cheer

Dave

[lyneux]

Perhaps Heljan IS one of the manufacturers! After all they have already invested money on r&d. Maybe an updated version was always on their to do list.

 

Exactly. Seems the most obvious option to me (that nobody else here seems to be considering).

 

Also, they can issue a pre-TDM version at the same time without much cross-over with their existing sales.

 

Guy

[Wolf27]

Exactly. Seems the most obvious option to me (that nobody else here seems to be considering).

 

Guy

Not quite nobody Guy! I said this last week.

 

'Playing devils advocate, if anyone from Heljan was to read this thread, now would be the time to have a new body made up and resurrect the rest of the tooling. Stranger things have happened (class 33). That said I guess we are more likely to see a new 86 from Hornby announced toward the end of the year. Again stranger things have happened. (Class 71)'

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[lyneux]

Sorry Shane, I think your voice got lost in all the froth!

 

Guy

[frobisher]

If I was In charge at Heljan I'd have fixed the body issues and re-released the 86 asap.

Not a cheap option for Heljan, as that's probably the single most expensive part of the tooling costs, so given the reportedly poor sales at first instance, it would be throwing good money after bad.

 

Bachmann's retooling of the 37 and 150 were based on very healthy sales of both, with the later not to correct faults but to introduce a more suitable drive chain based on their current practices.

[wombatofludham]

Just recieved my copy of Rail Express which included an in depth article on Bachmann's update.  There was an interesting comment on the future development of more AC electric models which said "Notably, it was confirmed that the company is committed to persevering with AC electric models and sees the Class 90 as very much another step towards a bigger range".

 

Perhaps the "AC electrics don't sell" hoary old chestnut can now be firmly roasted and done away with!

[Chris Higgs]

Just recieved my copy of Rail Express which included an in depth article on Bachmann's update.  There was an interesting comment on the future development of more AC electric models which said "Notably, it was confirmed that the company is committed to persevering with AC electric models and sees the Class 90 as very much another step towards a bigger range".

 

Perhaps the "AC electrics don't sell" hoary old chestnut can now be firmly roasted and done away with!

 

It's probably a bit of chicken and egg here. Unless you can get a decent range of quality AC electric models, not so many people are going to get uinto modelling it. I certainly got my Bachmann 85s for a remarkably good price, which does suggest they were over-produced at the time.

 

Chris