wombatofludham Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 It's probably a bit of chicken and egg here. Unless you can get a decent range of quality AC electric models, not so many people are going to get uinto modelling it. I certainly got my Bachmann 85s for a remarkably good price, which does suggest they were over-produced at the time. Chris Except how do we know discounting was down to them "not selling well?" Bachmann might have had cautious sales targets for the 85 and when they sold then offered them at discount. Certainly if you looked at the Bachmann website they went out of stock on their website before coming back into stock, and if I remember correctly the Bachmann "in stock" relates to their warehouse which suggests to me that more than one batch was produced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 ... Perhaps the "AC electrics don't sell" hoary old chestnut can now be firmly roasted and done away with! I'm not sure - if it's a myth - why they'd use this word: ... it was confirmed that the company is committed to persevering with AC electric models ... Isn't "persevering" something you do in the face of adversity - like, perhaps, poor sales? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I'm not sure - if it's a myth - why they'd use this word: Isn't "persevering" something you do in the face of adversity - like, perhaps, poor sales? Paul It might have been a prejudiced view from REx reporters that chose that word rather than Bachmann in the magazine report. Who cares - the point is they intend to extend the range, that's what is important. If they were such a sales lemon, given Bachmann is a commercial company, they'd have quietly dropped any further developments, semantics are irrelevant - it's intentions that count. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 ... it's intentions that count. I'd say it's actions that count! How many years is it since Bachmann "announced" a brand-new Class 158?! As it happens, I'd be rather pleased to see some more electrics sporting pantographs. Though my preference would be for an NER ES1 - none of the manufacturers has had a steepleback electric loco in their catalogues for around half a century! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I suspect there is more to it than simply "AC electrics don't sell". The last decade has seen high fidelity models of almost every diesel loco ever made appear with high initial sales for new models, followed by slower uptake of reliveries. The recent hike in prices will be making reliveries even more difficult to shift as modellers question whether they really need that loco in large logo blue as well as plain blue, or with that variation of headcode. I suspect companies like Bachmann will be scratching their heads where to go next for modellers of last 50 years or so and that whilst AC electrics had poorer sales than diesels in the past, they are likely to outstrip sales of reliveries of existing diesel models. Same companies are also dabbling in upgrading some of their weaker models (e.g. 158) with more modern versions which I suspect a few years ago would not have been considered but now makes sense with better sales potential than slapping a different livery on an existing model. I could be wrong but suspect that this may at least be a factor in the apparent sudden rush to produce AC electrics... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted August 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2016 It is interesting that you mention rereleases in new liveries, this is where I think the manufacturers are missing out. Smaller runs of, for example, rail blue with different numbers may well sell well. How long do we wait sometimes for the more traditional colours to be released again whilst ebay prices are high? I am not interested in having umpteen locos in one off liveries or carrying names, I want to reflect what the real railway was like. Take Hornby, why no rail blue DC 56 for so long? It sold well and sells on ebay. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 It is interesting that you mention rereleases in new liveries, this is where I think the manufacturers are missing out. Smaller runs of, for example, rail blue with different numbers may well sell well. How long do we wait sometimes for the more traditional colours to be released again whilst ebay prices are high? I am not interested in having umpteen locos in one off liveries or carrying names, I want to reflect what the real railway was like. Take Hornby, why no rail blue DC 56 for so long? It sold well and sells on ebay. Roy Perhaps there is something in the psychology where someone might purchase the rarer livery before a mundane one, but not the other way round...? Plus you can't please all of the people all of the time. I'm sure manufacturers keep an eye on second-hand prices (they'd be foolish not to) but these can be so variable and the lead times so long that they'd be hard pressed to strike whilst the iron is hot, so to speak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Probably right in your thinking, I picked up Bachmann 47 FireFly and I do want a Large Logo 47 but as it is just a LL 47 another will be along before long, but when would FireFly ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Perhaps the "AC electrics don't sell" hoary old chestnut can now be firmly roasted and done away with! Indeed, and for all we as the public know, the whole "electrics don't sell" spin could - to some degree at least - be a red-herring in order to discourage potential competition taking on AC electrics too. It certainly wouldn't make good business sense for any manufacturer to publicise its next great seller before they've even had a chance to get their own product on the shelves. If sales of AC electrics are so outstandingly poor then I always find it puzzling as to how Hornby have managed to continuosly knock-out their tired old Class 86 year-upon-year (since the 1980s?) with seeming success, not to mention the same company's Class 90 & 92 - after all someone must be buying them?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 The Bachmann 85 took a reputation hit due to the policy of Modelzone. Modelzone took a big % of the production run and tried ( failed ) to sell at RRP. The unsold stock was collected up and disposed off via Signalbox at knock down prices, virtually buy one get one free, at exhibitions / shows Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 you never hear fans of AC electrics saying "electrics never sell". that alone tells you something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensanchez43310 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I dont know if its been mentioned but if costs are so high, wouldnt it be a decent idea for dave to join up with shawplan or PHD and make designated high quality detailing kits/packs for the Hornby 86/87's??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensanchez43310 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 What liveries will we be seeing, and where is the option to opt in on your website? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensanchez43310 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 And Dave, after the 59 thread did I pm you suggesting making a 92?? cant be sure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I dont know if its been mentioned but if costs are so high, wouldnt it be a decent idea for dave to join up with shawplan or PHD and make designated high quality detailing kits/packs yfor the Hornby 86/87's??? I think I've got one of those somewhere...it's about 30 years old and made by Craftsman. The problem nowadays is you'd have to change so much on the original that not much of it would be left, and there is little point in investing all of that time doing so when a better RTR model is just around the corner. Don't get me wrong, I'm not "Anti detailing", it's just that if you want to do that then there are other projects available, and if you really want to do that to an elderly 86 or 87 then you would have done so already... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redford73 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I've just cast my vote and the 86 gets it. Given Heljans didn't cut muster and in any event wasn't released in BR Blue livery, which would in my view have guaranteed more sales, and the only other available rtr is the old Hornby model I think the 86 would be best served by a new model. Having said that the ex-Lima 87 is only ok and Hornby recently removed the latest release (albeit Railroad) from its range. Hope DJM get enough votes to make it feasible. For the record I'd prefer less 'bells and whistles' (i.e. working pantograph) as this will mean increase in price and couldn't this and other accessories be released as separate kits to be purchased by those who want them? I'm guessing I will be in a minority on this latter point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted August 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2016 I've just cast my vote and the 86 gets it. Given Heljans didn't cut muster and in any event wasn't released in BR Blue livery, which would in my view have guaranteed more sales, and the only other available rtr is the old Hornby model I think the 86 would be best served by a new model. Having said that the ex-Lima 87 is only ok and Hornby recently removed the latest release (albeit Railroad) from its range. Hope DJM get enough votes to make it feasible. For the record I'd prefer less 'bells and whistles' (i.e. working pantograph) as this will mean increase in price and couldn't this and other accessories be released as separate kits to be purchased by those who want them? I'm guessing I will be in a minority on this latter point. You must have missed the post from Dave saying that he wasn't going with either... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 The Bachmann 85 took a reputation hit due to the policy of Modelzone. Modelzone took a big % of the production run and tried ( failed ) to sell at RRP. The unsold stock was collected up and disposed off via Signalbox at knock down prices, virtually buy one get one free, at exhibitions / shows My understanding that there was an average stock level of between 3 and 4 for most of their stores so it certainly wasn't the majority of any livery or of the total range. The group needed to push sales of the item hence stock consolidation and a clearance price at one show, Warley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 in terms of what constitutes bells and whistles i'd prefer to see designed in lights that are going to be much harder to retro fit and neatly replicate into the body and dcc board than say sprung buffers that can easily be bought aftermarket provided plastic fixed items are push fit that allow easy removal. and i'd take a great looking pantograph any day over opening cab doors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 in terms of what constitutes bells and whistles i'd prefer to see designed in lights that are going to be much harder to retro fit and neatly replicate into the body and dcc board than say sprung buffers that can easily be bought aftermarket provided plastic fixed items are push fit that allow easy removal. and i'd take a great looking pantograph any day over opening cab doors. In terms of lights though, it would be nice to have ones which were individually controllable via the DCC chip rather than just switches under the loco too. Have headlights separately controlled from marker lights and tail lights that can be switched on and off remotely. Perhaps so that you could swap locos and back onto a train with the headlights lit in the direction the train will be going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 agreed. on BRs 87s the main central light as built was a separate function to the two markers. be good to rep that on a model. lets face it if youre going to do a new model with lighting (once in the next say 20 years?) do it right as I dare say theres very little saving to be made by cutting corners on the spec. same goes for the corridor lights - on the Bachmann 85 model out of the box you can only switch on the cab lights at both ends with the corridor lights on the one function when youd rather have 3 functions or maybe 1 cab light function that only switches on the cab light that's facing the set direction of travel at that point plus 1 function for the separate corridor control. the 86 or 87 are one of the last remaining locos to get the new model treatment now and really should merit the best we can get with modern tooling. the waits been long enough for a decent new model as it is. probably all idle chitchat on this thread now if DJM has decided against........I'm still hopeful that Bachmann will have a bash at one simply because the 85 was such a great rendition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 6, 2016 In terms of lights though, it would be nice to have ones which were individually controllable via the DCC chip rather than just switches under the loco too. Have headlights separately controlled from marker lights and tail lights that can be switched on and off remotely. Perhaps so that you could swap locos and back onto a train with the headlights lit in the direction the train will be going. only good if you have DCC. no use for DC users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted September 6, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 6, 2016 Since these models are no longer happening from DJM, should this topic be locked? No point discussing what we want on a model that isn't happening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 only good if you have DCC. no use for DC users. not sure what else to suggest for DC users, do you expect an array of switches underneath that require lifting off the track to switch? I suspect they wouldn't be used very much and all models are made with DCC in mind now anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 only good if you have DCC. no use for DC users. DCC is quite accommodating when it comes to "sideways engineering", with some lighting and sound functions that still work on DC, some systems even have a plug in box that allow for more functions to be used so it's hardly worthy of a polarized opinion. But something like lights on DCC which only need correct mapping to suit (although sometimes the manufacturer chooses the default which is usually set up for a light engine), may be too difficult for the DC community to achieve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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