Signaller69's projects

[Sc59401]

Hello Martyn,

 

I've just been catching up with this thread after one of my model railway club colleagues alerted me to it and I'm most impressed!  What a clever idea to use Trix Mark Is.  I 'bashed' a 126 out of two Mainline SKs and a BSK over 30 years ago and I still remember the many hours of cutting and filling.  I had to move all but two of the large windows to make the DMS but the slightly under-scale window size was a bonus.  I disguised the thickness of the sides by painting the edges around the windows black.

 

As others have mentioned (and thank you for the compliments) I am a long-time regular volunteer on the preserved three-car Class 126 unit and E&G buffet car Sc79443 at Bo'ness so maybe I can help with some of the questions raised, firstly regarding interiors:

 

The power cars did not have tables, however each centre car compartment was provided with cast aluminium brackets (which we got remanufactured) on the wall below the window and a locating ring on the floor for a folding table which could be fitted by the guard on request.  The table was normally kept on a grooved wooden stand at one end of the corridor.  The preserved 3-car unit seat colours are 1959 specification, namely blue in first class, tan in second class non-smoking and green in all other second class.  Half of the DMS was non-smoking, which explains the different colour in the photograph.  Our centre car is a composite so it has three blue, one tan and three green sets of seats.  The compartment with the door is non-smoking.  All the moquette is 'razor blade' pattern, however the first class should be uncut moquette rather than cut but that was going to cost a lot more and nobody has complained yet.  By the 1970s most second class seats appear to have been blue/green check with light grey piping but some (including both of our power cars) had 'Trojan' which is black (fading to grey) with small white squares and similar-sized red, blue and yellow rectangles.  BR used it for years, you'll know it if you see it.  First class seats which were not downgraded to second were usually light brown three per side.  Some of ours had been converted to second class four per side by removing the intermediate head and armrests and re-covering in blue/green.

 

Moving outside I can confirm that the missing end steps were restored in preservation, some of them being made from scratch.  The pipe which runs along one side of each vehicle is electrical conduit.  Incidentally each power car contains about two miles of wiring!  There are some photographs of plain blue 126s with set numbers in a 1xx series (e.g. 153) but details are sketchy.  Set numbers in the 4xx series (later 126 4xx) started to appear in the late 1970s but formations rarely stayed fixed for long.  The numbers usually appeared on DMBS cars only and help to identify individual cars in photographs (401 on 51030, 402 to 421 on 51032 to 51051, 422 on 79088; 51031 missing as it was destroyed in the Paisley crash in 1979).  The lightweight buffers appear to have been unique to the E&G and 126 cars.  The castings are aluminium and the 18" heads were usually retracted, being used only for shunting as these units had buckeye couplers.

 

I can understand your reluctance to build another centre car but 5-car formations were not all that common and were usually the result of a power car failure. Most Ayr sets ran in 3- or 6-car formations with the occasional nine.  Only two buffet cars were built with the Ayr sets and these didn't last long on the Glasgow-Stranraer line, being transferred to Leith to work with the E&G units.  One of them was the very first DMU vehicle to be painted blue, subsequently changed to blue/grey as the E&G was a principal route.  Ayr's 126s stayed blue until about 1977 although the occasional blue/grey 79xxx vehicle could be seen before then, as in the cine film my father shot at Troon for me in 1969.  The buffet car at Bo'ness was allocated to Ayr for a few months in 1960 so it is quite authentic to work with our power cars, which is the plan once it is finished.  It was extremely rusty but historically important as the only remaining E&G vehicle (apart from the ones possibly still existing in Liberia) and the ancestor of the Mark 2 carriage.  These DMUs (and Classes 120/124/123) had integral construction without underframe trussing which would have got in the way of traction and other equipment.

 

Regarding powering the model, I have built an MTK E&G 6-car unit and it is equipped with two Lima motor bogies which I fitted with Ultrascale wheels.  These do not have traction tyres but they can shift this fairly heavy train with little or no slipping.  Extra pickups are a good idea.  I have done this to one bogie on the centre car of my MTK Class 120 and it made a huge difference.

 

Hope this helps and I look forward to seeing progress on your 126.

[Signaller69]

*snip*

Hello John,

What can I say, very many thanks for the detailed info regarding the 126's and their interior colours, I hadn't considered the "smoking" seats being a different colour scheme to the "non smoking" so that clears up my confusion as you say!

 

Unfortunately 5 coaches (or 4 and a loco) is the maximum I can run on my layout (and even then it would have to be a "special"), much as I would like to eventually run a 6 car set, so a missing "defective" power car indeed seems the best answer.

 

I am very impressed with the Bo'ness 126 set for it's rarity value and for the attention to detail your team have all put into the restoration, it will I am sure, be even further enhanced with the addition of the buffet car in the future; I hope to make the journey up from North Wales at some point and hopefully see, and hear the set running in service.

 

I am currently hunting for a couple more Trix Mk.1's to crack on with the remaining 2 vehicles of my set, identities still TBC!

 

Thanks also for the info on your MTK E&G set, have you any photos? If I had been able to source one I probably would have gone with that rather than the "saw-fest" I opted for but such is life, and in any case I am happy with how it has turned out so far, even with the slight inaccuracies.

 

Very many thanks again for sharing your insight John.

 

Best regards,

Martyn.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Signaller69

[Signaller69]

Had an intriguing early Xmas delivery today while Ms. Signaller was at work, not allowed to "check" it though. . . :-)

[jetmorgan]

Had an intriguing early Xmas delivery today while Ms. Signaller was at work, not allowed to "check" it though. . . :-)

IMG_20171201_170826.jpg

Don't be too sure....they may just have left off the H at the beginning of airbrush and it could be one of those £300 Dyson hair dryers that is your present to your lord and master lol

[Signaller69]

Don't be too sure....they may just have left off the H at the beginning of airbrush and it could be one of those £300 Dyson hair dryers that is your present to your lord and master lol

Well I did have a quick check, its got a compressor. . . :-)

[leopardml2341]

Well I did have a quick check, its got a compressor. . . :-)

Your name's now on the naughty list

[Signaller69]

Your name's now on the naughty list

After all this time it should be!

[Sc59401]

Very many thanks again for sharing your insight John.

 

Best regards,

Martyn.

 

You're very welcome Martyn and please feel free to ask about anything I might be able to help with, although I might take a few days to reply as I have limited internet access.

 

The preserved 126 has been part of my life since 1986 and I am quite pleased that it has turned out OK in the end.  It has just had new air receivers and batteries fitted and is scheduled to be used more next year.

 

I have a rather poor mobile 'phone photo of one MTK leading E&G cab end taken some time ago.  It has come on a bit since so I must take some more!  I modelled the leading cab end buffers in the extended position and all others retracted.

 

 

Curiously the E&G cars did not have multiple working connections on the cab ends, which is one reason they were never seen at Ayr.

 

Cheers, John.

[Signaller69]

You're very welcome Martyn and please feel free to ask about anything I might be able to help with, although I might take a few days to reply as I have limited internet access.

 

The preserved 126 has been part of my life since 1986 and I am quite pleased that it has turned out OK in the end. It has just had new air receivers and batteries fitted and is scheduled to be used more next year.

 

I have a rather poor mobile 'phone photo of one MTK leading E&G cab end taken some time ago. It has come on a bit since so I must take some more! I modelled the leading cab end buffers in the extended position and all others retracted.

 

6070_Sc79097_cab_20080122.JPG

 

Curiously the E&G cars did not have multiple working connections on the cab ends, which is one reason they were never seen at Ayr.

 

Cheers, John.

Thanks John, your 126 looks a nice build, I'm sure it will / does look stunning finished, running as a full set.

 

Was it just the full cab end vehicles which could not run with the Ayr sets? As I'm toying with doing one of the two SC5xxxx buffet cars and an EG DMBS(i) to finish my set off, but can change this if it physically could not have happened in reality.

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

[Signaller69]

The Class 126 has now had some extra pick-ups added on the TCK, or more precisely on one of its bogies; as long as the vehicle next to the powered DMBS has a Lima DMU bogie it can be swapped around. The brass wire pick-ups won't win any "finesse awards" but otherwise I think its reasonably neat and unobtrusive. The white wires leading away go to a miniature plug (available from Squires) which mates with the socket fitted to the DMBS. (The red marker was used for getting the polarity right!)

Just needs a bit of black paint / marker pen to disguise the cable now.

[Clive Mortimore]

The Class 126 has now had some extra pick-ups added on the TCK, or more precisely on one of its bogies; as long as the vehicle next to the powered DMBS has a Lima DMU bogie it can be swapped around. The brass wire pick-ups won't win any "finesse awards" but otherwise I think its reasonably neat and unobtrusive. The white wires leading away go to a miniature plug (available from Squires) which mates with the socket fitted to the DMBS. (The red marker was used for getting the polarity right!)

Just needs a bit of black paint / marker pen to disguise the cable now.IMG_20171212_164142_1.jpgIMG_20171212_164122_1.jpgIMG_20171212_163839_1.jpgIMG_20171212_163823_1.jpgIMG_20171212_164334.jpgIMG_20171212_170322_1.jpg

Proper multiple unit jumpers

[turbos]

Thanks John, your 126 looks a nice build, I'm sure it will / does look stunning finished, running as a full set.

 

Was it just the full cab end vehicles which could not run with the Ayr sets? As I'm toying with doing one of the two SC5xxxx buffet cars and an EG DMBS(i) to finish my set off, but can change this if it physically could not have happened in reality.

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

The E&G DMBS(i) could run in multiple at the drivers end, there is a picture of SC79088 coupled (probably to a SC5xxx vehicle) as such at Glasgow Central on the Railcar Associations website. It was only the driving end of the E&G 79xxx DMBS(L) that didn't have multiple working sockets. From what I gather the E&G units and the Ayrshire units weren't directly compatible, they had slightly different control systems, but could be converted as happened to some vehicles. They're sphere of operations rarely brought the E&G and Ayrshire units together so it was never an operational issue.

[Signaller69]

The E&G DMBS(i) could run in multiple at the drivers end, there is a picture of SC79088 coupled (probably to a SC5xxx vehicle) as such at Glasgow Central on the Railcar Associations website. It was only the driving end of the E&G 79xxx DMBS(L) that didn't have multiple working sockets. From what I gather the E&G units and the Ayrshire units weren't directly compatible, they had slightly different control systems, but could be converted as happened to some vehicles. They're sphere of operations rarely brought the E&G and Ayrshire units together so it was never an operational issue.

Thanks, that is basically how I had read it. As my timeframe is around 1970, from what I can see this pre-dates the 7xxxx cars mixing with the Ayrshire 5xxxx cars in normal service, I presume this only really started to happen post the Class 27 E&G push pull sets displacing the E&G 126's in the early 70s.

[Legend]

Thanks, that is basically how I had read it. As my timeframe is around 1970, from what I can see this pre-dates the 7xxxx cars mixing with the Ayrshire 5xxxx cars in normal service, I presume this only really started to happen post the Class 27 E&G push pull sets displacing the E&G 126's in the early 70s.

But it was very rare. I do remember the occasional Blue Grey car marshalled in a blue set in the early 70s , but it was very rare. I certainly wouldn’t say you saw them normally. Never saw an E&G DMBS on an Ayrshire set.

[Signaller69]

But it was very rare. I do remember the occasional Blue Grey car marshalled in a blue set in the early 70s , but it was very rare. I certainly wouldn’t say you saw them normally. Never saw an E&G DMBS on an Ayrshire set.

Thanks, looks like I will stick to 5xxxx cars then, once I pick up a few more Trix donor coaches.

[turbos]

Other than the 2 buffet cars and a few vehicles in 1959-60, the Ayrshire vehicles didn't ever work with E&G units. A few 79xxx vehicles did appear on the Ayrshire services prior to the introduction of the class 27 push-pulls on the E&G.

 

DMBS(i) 79083

Allocations 03/09/56 New to Leith Central - on loan from WR. On listings as 64A (St Margarets). 4w/e 20/04/57 Ex-loan back to 82C (Swindon)   10/10/59 On loan to 67C (Ayr)   2w/e 23/09/61 On loan to 64H (Leith Central)   31/12/61 Transferred to 64H (Leith Central) - Previously on loan to ScR now permanently transferred Jan-62 Transferred to 67C (Ayr)   4w/e 31/01/70 Transferred to 64H (Leith Central)   May-71 Transferred to 67C (Ayr)   Oct-71 Transferred to 64H (Leith Central)   Nov-71 Stored     19/10/72 Withdrawn from 64H (Leith Central)

 

TF 79479

 

Allocations 30/10/56 New to Leith Central - on listings as 64A (St Margarets). 01/08/59 Depot code change 64H (Leith Central)   4w/e 03/08/68 Transferred to 67C (Ayr)   May-73 Depot code change AY (Ayr)   27/09/78 Withdrawn

 

These allocations are what officially happened but as we all well know what actually happened and when could be quite different. There is a photo of 79479 in Ayr station dated 26/02/77 in all over Blue. It was noted with DMBS(i) 79088 and DMS 51014 at Ayr in Aug 1970. 79088 wasn't officially allocated to Ayr until Nov 1971.

 

Brian.

[turbos]

But it was very rare. I do remember the occasional Blue Grey car marshalled in a blue set in the early 70s , but it was very rare. I certainly wouldn’t say you saw them normally. Never saw an E&G DMBS on an Ayrshire set.

I'd agree that the DMBS(L) of either the 79xxx or the 51xxx type never got moved away from there home depots until withdrawal. The 79xxx DMBS(i) type certainly operated for a few years on the Ayrshire route, 79088 was allocated to Ayr for over 9 years until withdrawal in 1981.

[Signaller69]

Thanks for all the info on the 126's gents. I'm hoping to give it another test run at the Club tomorrow.

 

In the meantime I have made some progress on what will become the Mac Fisheries lorry using spares left from the Macbraynes lorries. The cab is a Base Toys Ford D series, although the one I'm basing the build on is a Leyland Boxer, so I might look out for a suitable donor - I am aware there is a company that do cast metal lorry parts (they were at Warley) but I forget their name currently.

Anyways, the BT 6 wheel chassis had the rear axle and arches removed via a razor saw to give a long wheelbase 4 wheeler:

 

A body was built up from 60 thou plasticard, cutting the door openings was a pita! Bits of corrugated plasticard form the roller shutter doors, with microstrip and microrod used where appropriate. It is fixed to the chassis by the original BT screws:

 

The BT Ford cab is not their best effort and looks too small/low/squat to my eyes so it has been raised off the chassis by about 1mm or so and 1mm fillets added around the bottom of the cab. As said it may get replaced with a Leyland Boxer at some point - I did consider modifying the front to the Leyland style as the cab sides are similar but the amount of work and finesse required would be too testing I fear, especially as regards the grille area. (Cab is loosely placed in the photos.)

 

The refrigeration unit on the front of the van body is from scraps of plastruct, a little fine mesh will be added on the sides. Chassis will have the fuel tank moved and footsteps added under the doors from wire.

 

The model (cab notwithstanding) is based on the only photo I've found of a post 60s lorry in Mac Fisheries colours - the black & white 'J' reg one on this page:

http://auto-zer.com/photo/leyland-boxer/06/default.html

Livery is presumed to be blue (their older colours being blue and white - but I'm not sure!) Transfers will be produced before I source a suitable shade of blue car aerosol.

 

A pleasant, but temporary, diversion from rolling stock anyway!

 

Edit to better photo link.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Signaller69

[37114]

Nice job, Road Transport Images do the boxer/Terrier cab, it is one of their better cabs as well.

[Signaller69]

Nice job, Road Transport Images do the boxer/Terrier cab, it is one of their better cabs as well.

Thanks for the name, could well have been their stand I saw at Warley show then. Had a look at their Boxer cab, as you say it looks very nice, although the radiator grille is quite different from the one in the link unfortunately, being 1972 style, which makes me think the linked one is an earlier version, 'J' reg being 1970 which is perfect for my layout.

 

I need to do more research I think.

 

Many thanks for the reply.

Martyn.

[Signaller69]

The only Leyland cab options I have so far discovered are the Base Toys (earlier version) and Transport Images (72 onwards) versions. Sods law dictates the one I am basing my effort on falls between them. So after fiddling around to make a Leyland grille, I have bitten the bullet and decided to convert the front of the Ford to a Leyland cab. Suffice to say it won't be entirely accurate but hopefully will capture the feel of the real thing sufficiently. Early progress shown here, much to do yet! If it all goes wrong, plan 'B' is go with one of the other options.

 

I have also produced a sheet of transfers including numberplates, Leyland lettering etc in approximate fonts.

[BernardTPM]

Isn't this the cab you're after? There was an earlier version (FJ) where the headlights were positioned differently.

[Signaller69]

Further progress, happily quicker than I expected. Clean up and primer later or tomorrow.

[Signaller69]

Isn't this the cab you're after? There was an earlier version (FJ) where the headlights were positioned differently.

Hi Bernard,

I think the BT cab is an earlier design and appears more bulbous than the one I am trying to replicate; I will check out the trucksplanet link thanks! (NMP - from the Auto-zer link above - admin remove if not allowed):

 

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

[markw]

Hi Bernard,

I think the BT cab is an earlier design and appears more bulbous than the one I am trying to replicate; I will check out the trucksplanet link thanks! (NMP - from the Auto-zer link above - admin remove if not allowed):

leyland-boxer-06.jpg

Thanks,

Martyn.

The BT cab is supposed to be the same type, it is just a very bad model.

Road Transport Images do produce the correct 1964 version

http://www.roadtransportimages.com/online-shop/item/103-bmc-fj-1964-f-c-cab-with-vac-glazing