Signaller69's projects

[Signaller69]

BSO sides are now lined and lettered and attention has moved to creating a suitable interior from left over Trix compartment seating and a Guards compartment (from the 126 project which would otherwise go to waste). Much cutting later it is getting there. Tables are simple plasticard affairs. Once painted there is still the roof and flush glazing to tackle.

 

[Signaller69]

BSO interior has now been painted, and some more coach bits have arrived from Wizard Models, mainly needed for the next project, the RSO.

[BernardTPM]

Note the RSOs were built with loose seating, so individual chairs, not benches. I don't know if they were altered before withdrawal though (I doubt they got the orange plastic seats like RBRs). I did draw up some fold-up ones for N gauge for this but the darned disc drive died soon after.

[Signaller69]

Note the RSOs were built with loose seating, so individual chairs, not benches. I don't know if they were altered before withdrawal though (I doubt they got the orange plastic seats like RBRs). I did draw up some fold-up ones for N gauge for this but the darned disc drive died soon after.

Thanks Bernard, yes I noted the loose seating on the general arrangement plan you kindly provided a few posts back; I am similarly unsure if they were modified later, photos I've seen in later life have thus far been inconclusive. I might research the preserved examples (I believe there are a couple, if I can find the list again), but this can be misleading too of course!

 

Edit: W1012 & W1013 are preserved at the GCR and K&WVR respectively. Both have apparently non original interiors; W1013 having TSO seating, unsure as regards W1012.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Signaller69

[leopardml2341]

This is from memory, but I'm pretty sure there were a few of these, relegated from restaurant duties, in the rake of coaches marshalled as the Manchester to Harwich PQ trains which I saw at Sheffield regularly in the mid to late 70's and then they did have fixed seats.

[Signaller69]

This is from memory, but I'm pretty sure there were a few of these, relegated from restaurant duties, in the rake of coaches marshalled as the Manchester to Harwich PQ trains which I saw at Sheffield regularly in the mid to late 70's and then they did have fixed seats.

You could well be right, I found this photo on the Eastbank site showing what APPEARS to be a dia 56 bodied vehicle but in a different number series as a "TSO" (in 1978):

http://www.eastbank.org.uk/images/Coaches/CS0128.jpg

 

Not 100% conclusive but looking at the interior through the first window the sunlight appears to be catching a TSO type wooden seat end, rather than any type of loose chair which makes sense.

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

(Edit to correct error)

Edited January 26, 2018 by Signaller69

[chrisf]

Edit: W1012 & W1013 are preserved at the GCR and K&WVR respectively. Both have apparently non original interiors; W1013 having TSO seating, unsure as regards W1012.

 

W1012 was converted to a cinema coach in 1961 for the Westward Television exhibition train.   I have no idea how the seating is configured now.

 

Chris

[Signaller69]

W1012 was converted to a cinema coach in 1961 for the Westward Television exhibition train. I have no idea how the seating is configured now.

 

Chris

Thanks Chris, according to the Vintage Carriages Trust it is still as purchased ex Departmental service awaiting restoration at the Great Central Railway.

[leopardml2341]

You could well be right, I found this photo on the Eastbank site showing a late survivor (in 1978):http://www.eastbank.org.uk/images/Coaches/CS0128.jpg

Not 100% conclusive but looking at the interior through the first window the sunlight appears to be catching a TSO type wooden seat end, rather than any type of loose chair.

Cheers,

Martyn.

Isn't that because the pic is a TSO rather than a RSO?

[leopardml2341]

See this pic:

 

http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p783880090/h9F3D69C#h9f3d69c

 

Right period, right train for my earlier post, and what could be a downgraded RSO as second vehicle (no centre door/stepboard). Sadly can't see the seating, it was dates I wasn't certain about but I definitely remember seeing 10xx numbered vehicles with fixed seats on that service.

Edited January 26, 2018 by leopardml2341

[leopardml2341]

Ignore all my earlier waffles about RSO.

 

The vehicles I remember were indeed RSO, but were later conversions from FO coaches.

 

Pic 1 RCTS coaching stock 1976:

 

 

Pic 2 RCTS coaching stock 1978:

 

 

Sorry for confusion, but it confirms the later batch had seats rather than chairs, and these would be the ones I remember.

Edited January 26, 2018 by leopardml2341

[Signaller69]

Ignore all my earlier waffles about RSO.

 

The vehicles I remember were indeed RSO, but were later conversions from FO coaches.

 

Pic 1 RCTS coaching stock 1976:

 

IMG_20180126_105317~2.jpg

 

Pic 2 RCTS coaching stock 1978:

 

IMG_20180126_105908~2.jpg

 

Sorry for confusion, but it confirms the later batch had seats rather than chairs, and these would be the ones I remember.

Not to worry, the photo link I posted probably didn't help; I have been confused over the differing body styles in the past too on another thread. It is the Dia 56 type (no's 1000 - 1013) I am doing which appears to be the body type in the photo I linked above; however I hadn't noticed this purports to show a TSO as E3712 so were some reclassified/renumbered from RSO to TSO in later use as per the photo I linked (would make sense if they had fixed seating fitted), or were they just the same bodyshell? Edited January 26, 2018 by Signaller69

[Signaller69]

Try again. Image of Dia 56 RSO as comparison to earlier link (9th one down the RCTS list):

https://rcts.org.uk/features/archive/search.htm?company=BR&subtype=3&class=&location=&srch=&page=2

[Signaller69]

Isn't that because the pic is a TSO rather than a RSO?

Apologies for the confusion (body type same as dia.56); post editted to hopefully clarify.

[BernardTPM]

On the same page see CUL0822 which is the dia.96 TSO - same body but fixed 2+2 seating and the same number series as the blue/grey coach linked in post 281.

[Signaller69]

On the same page see CUL0822 which is the dia.96 TSO - same body but fixed 2+2 seating and the same number series as the blue/grey coach linked in post 281.

Hi Bernard,

I think the original photo I saw of what I thought was a (declassified) RSO at Achnasheen, was probably one of these Dia 96 TSO's, a type I wasn't previously aware of as I thought the Dia 56 was a unique body type only to that diagram, which evidently wasn't the case.

 

My thanks also go to Andy (leopardml2341) for info on this subject.

 

As I don't actually NEED a RSO per-se, I'm now thinking of finishing mine as one of these 37xx TSO's instead, with fixed seating, just need to find some suitable 1970 Scottish blue/grey examples now!

 

Thanks all for clearing up my confusion.

[Signaller69]

Back to the BSO, this is now finally done barring the usual weathering around the bogies/underframe/ends. This time I persevered with the SEF glazing, though this took a lot of chamfering of the insides of the upper small quarterlight windows to get a decent fit. I also replaced the rather coarse luggage area mesh I had fitted, with another offcut of K&S brass square mesh I happened upon (as used in the BFK). Window handrails and luggage area window bars are Slaters micro-rod.

The close ups are a little cruel but overall I'm happy.

 

Now onto the thorny subject of the RSO/TSO. . .

[leopardml2341]

Martyn,

 

Have you considered painting the rebates of both the window apertures and the glazing in a (almost) black colour to disguise the goldfish bowl effect of the SEF glazing?

[Signaller69]

Martyn,

 

Have you considered painting the rebates of both the window apertures and the glazing in a (almost) black colour to disguise the goldfish bowl effect of the SEF glazing?

Hi Andy,

The window appertures were sprayed from the inside with dark grey paint, but I'm not sure I could do a decent enough job of painting around inside the edges of the glazing black to be honest. I am going to go around the glazing edges with matt varnish using a very fine brush though; I will do the BSO, BFK and RBR in one sitting hopefully. On the windows I've tried so far it does make a difference to the reflection. Another idea-which I have not tried-is to push the flush glaze back from the edge by a tiny fraction (some has a tendancy to stand very slightly proud outside the window apperture which accentuates the goldfish bowl problem); this would need a very keen eye to get the windows aligned perfectly though.

[crompton 33]

You probably know this . But have you tried a Black permanent marker pen around the window frame's. Before you fit the windows. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by crompton 33

[Signaller69]

You probably know this . But have you tried a Black permanent marker pen around the window frame's. Before you fit the windows.

Thanks, that is another option to painting, certainly; anything which helps disguise the thickness of the sides can only be a good thing.

 

The biggest issue with vac formed flush glaze though is the clear, shiny curved edge meeting the flat face of the window and it is these which reflect light giving the game away. Although only very small curved surfaces, they are a massively over "scale" compromise in the name of ease of fitting (in theory at least). As with any shiny surfaces, corners reflect light when viewed from just about any angle, so my solution (and yes it is a compromise) was simply to apply acrylic matt varnish to these tiny curved edges right around each window once fitted using a very small sable paintbrush, with the aim of reducing the amount of light reflected by the matt surface, which it succeeds in doing pretty well, but is not perfect. The only way of completely 100% removing the "goldfish bowl" effect with vac-formed glazing as far as I can see would be to paint body coloured paint around the inside AND outside of the edges of each piece of glazing, particularly the curved edges, leaving only the flat "face" of the window visible.

 

This sounds fine in theory but brings other issues:

1) the tiny gap left between glazing and bodyshell would then look pretty awful I suspect, unless filled and painted.

2) Worse, the window will look too small owing to the paint around the curved edges, however neat a job is made of painting.

 

To a degree the scale of the problem depends on fit; the BFK and BSO have turned out better than the RBR as the flush glaze in the latter does not fit as snuggly as in the others. Using flat individual pieces of glazing (a la Lazerglaze) negates all these problems of course, but needs great care in fitting.

 

From normal viewing distance they look acceptable I think.

[Signaller69]

In other news, the Leyland "Macfisheries" lorry I was working on before Christmas has finally received a revised cab interior, flush windscreen glazing (topical. . .) and cabside coat of arms'. Just weathering to do now, and maybe some windscreen wipers.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Signaller69

[Signaller69]

Some weathering done today.

 

Thanks for looking.

[Sandhole]

Some weathering done today.

IMG_20180130_150147_1.jpgIMG_20180130_150252_1.jpgIMG_20180130_150516_1.jpgIMG_20180130_150400_1.jpg

 

Thanks for looking.

Very subtle!

The weathering on the Redline is great. The McFisheries wagons I remember in Manchester were a bit scruffier!!

I've just finished 10hrs on Manchester Airport driving a Leyland. Well, a Leyland DAF. What I think was called a Cruiser in its youth!!

18tons of catering wagon. The Leylands are great 'cos they aren't stuck with vast amounts of sensors to go wrong and have a tight turning circle . You can't half put 'em in tight spaces!!!

One has to remember that's goodness knows how many million pounds of airliner you are getting close to! That's why I love the job!!!

[Signaller69]

Very subtle!

The weathering on the Redline is great. The McFisheries wagons I remember in Manchester were a bit scruffier!!

I've just finished 10hrs on Manchester Airport driving a Leyland. Well, a Leyland DAF. What I think was called a Cruiser in its youth!!

18tons of catering wagon. The Leylands are great 'cos they aren't stuck with vast amounts of sensors to go wrong and have a tight turning circle . You can't half put 'em in tight spaces!!!

One has to remember that's goodness knows how many million pounds of airliner you are getting close to! That's why I love the job!!!

Thanks for the insight!

 

I was aiming to keep it fairly subtle as it represents an almost new vehicle on my layout. I did post a photo of the vehicle it is based on a page or 2 back, having otherwise had little luck tracing many c.1970 photos of MacFisheries trucks online or on Facebook etc.