lapford34102 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 As an aside, with a very personal opinion, I have been amazed at how many posts concern very minor errors in a mass produced model, but the fact that the model will be operated on track which is way under scale is apparently of no concern What errors have been pointed out seem to have been done in a generally constructive or at least neutral manner in, I imagine, a spirit of informing others whether it be fellow modellers or the manufacturer. As with any model one man's minor error is anothers deal breaker, it's all down to the individual, as is the gauge of the track he uses. To take your argument to it's (illogical) conclusion you shouldn't be buying anything with an OO wheelset. But as you say it's all down to personal opinion. Stu 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) I too 'accidentally' bought a D6331 at Warley and will be looking to renumber to the earliest appropriate class member that carried this livery in this condition - so thanks for this. I'm not used to renumbering green diesels - any views on whose transfers are most suitable/correct? I normally use HMRS for my steam stock. Personally I'd say that if you normally use HMRS transfers I'd stay with those. You get the green style numbers on sheet 15 (the BR blue livery sheet). If you don't want to have to fork out for a new sheet I can give you some of the earlier style - I never need to use them! On the renumbering subject, can anyone suggest the best way to remove the numbers from one of these lovely machines in order to leave an unblemished surface for renumbering? Thanks in advance. Steve Depending on the thickness of the paint on the loco I either use T-cut to remove numbers or worn 1200 grade wet and dry. If the paint layer is thin (Hornby EWS 56) then the T-cut tends to remove the paint before the number . In the case of the 56 I used a very sharp brand new scalpel blade and was very careful. Edited November 24, 2011 by Flood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) As an aside, with a very personal opinion, I have been amazed at how many posts concern very minor errors in a mass produced model, but the fact that the model will be operated on track which is way under scale is apparently of no concern at all. And here it is again. I'll save time and transfer my own words from another very recent thread: But anyway [insert name as appropriate], please tell me - because I for one am genuinely interested in your thought process - just what is the substance behind this trite old argument? Is it that because the gauge is out by 2.33mm, therefore an error of up to 2.33mm - plus or minus - anywhere else on a model should be acceptable as well? If manufacturers used that as a yardstick, there'd be some pretty odd looking models about... Why do ... well-nigh unavoidable compromises with track-related factors have a bearing on the acceptance of discrepancies in the upper bodywork? We also typically accept reductions of maybe 50% in platform length, does it follow that we should be prepared to accept a hypothetical Bo-Bo diesel that was a scale 25ft long, if one were made for us? What errors have been pointed out seem to have been done in a generally constructive or at least neutral manner in, I imagine, a spirit of informing others whether it be fellow modellers or the manufacturer. Quite. It may be that some intend to do something about these errors themselves, in just the same way as some are prepared to do something about the gauge. But you cant rectify an error unless you've identified and appraised it first. Edited November 24, 2011 by Pennine MC 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I ordered D6327 so I havn't seen one in the flesh yet, but from pictures I've seen of the model, it looks like the small grills are painted black. If this is so, shouldn't they be green? I've not found a picture of a clean 22 in green with anything other than green painted small grills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2011 I'm not even a fine-scaler (yet?) but value the time and energy Dave is putting in to get things right fur us, his customers, with this and other releases. I might even re-wheel the 63xx and 6xx if they would still run on my outdoor Code 100 but back-to-backs on finescale wheels might be an issue! To use an Australian expression "On ya Dave!" Other manufacturers please take note. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Dave, I would certainly be interested in an EM set. Taking the idea further you could enquire, before production, how many buyers of the D6XX Warship model would like them supplied with EM gauge wheels. This would make you the first manufacturer to supply a RTR EM gauge loco. As an aside, with a very personal opinion, I have been amazed at how many posts concern very minor errors in a mass produced model, but the fact that the model will be operated on track which is way under scale is apparently of no concern at all. What an unfortunate dis-advert for modelling 4mm in other than OO. This simply lends weight to the hoary old issue of gauge-snobbery which many of us thought the forum had outgrown. C'mon, let's park those prejudices hey.... 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2011 Well said chaps, as Tankerman is a probationary member he may not be privvy to the gauge arguments that have raged on here in the past. Just don't go there, right ..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Looking at the Dapol wheels the tyres seem much wider than the wheel centres, are these a one bit casting or can the tyres be removed and replaced with P4 tyres alternatively the old types could turned off and new P4 tyres pressed on as the wheel over the Dapol wheel centres. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) "... What an unfortunate dis-advert for modelling 4mm in other than OO. This simply lends weight to the hoary old issue of gauge snobbery..." What he said. That's a very old chestnut indeed which brings absolutely nothing to the party I'm afraid. Best left alone. Dave. Edited November 24, 2011 by Max Stafford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) Looking at the Dapol wheels the tyres seem much wider than the wheel centres, are these a one bit casting or can the tyres be removed and replaced with P4 tyres alternatively the old types could turned off and new P4 tyres pressed on as the wheel over the Dapol wheel centres. David, I didn't investigate this too thoroughly. All I can say is that there is a difference in the finish of the tyre and centre, the former having a slight polish whereas the centre is slightly blackened. They may well be two pieces. I thought briefly about the type of solutions you suggest, but concluded that with my limited equipment and machining abilities it was probably beyond me. I'd probably need at least a dozen wheels to be sure of getting eight good ones Others, of course might take such an approach in their stride. Nick Edited November 24, 2011 by buffalo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) Ok, here's an idea! If someone supplies me with a spec for the wheels you want, how about I approach my Chinese factory and ask them for a price / feasibility? No promises mind, but it might just be a profile 11 spoke option for the fine scalers! Let me know what you think Cheers Dave What a great and thoughtful idea Dave! If there was a P4 option that would be terrific and I'd certainly be interested. You have true entrepreneurial spirit Dave and the way you listen to your customers is exemplary! As someone else mentioned earlier, the fact that many years ago Dapol introduced the J94 with a replacement set of EM drivers was an incredible master stroke, the spirit of which seems to be being carried on into the 21st Century. All the best Simon Edited November 24, 2011 by oldlugger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Ok, here's an idea! If someone supplies me with a spec for the wheels you want, how about I approach my Chinese factory and ask them for a price / feasibility? No promises mind, but it might just be a profile 11 spoke option for the fine scalers! Let me know what you think Cheers Dave Hi Dave, PM sent with some wheel details. Regards Mark Humphrys 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Well theres a first - Dave deserves much commendation for being the first manufacturer to actually physically do something for us modelling in p4 / EM. I must admit i was very dissapointed at the Ultrascale announcement - not for the 22 but with the 29 in mind - as i will be needing a 29. I was suspecting a session with the Unimat may have been in order! Well done that man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tankerman Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2011 Well said chaps, as Tankerman is a probationary member he may not be privvy to the gauge arguments that have raged on here in the past. Just don't go there, right ..... The quote above is exactly right, I wasn't aware that any gauge arguments had taken place, and I can only imagine what they must have been like from the heat which the second paragraph of my post has generated. I hope that a short explanation of my modelling experience, the reason I am using EM and what I was actually trying to say in the second paragraph, obviously very badly, will pour some oil on the troubled waters. I was a member of Falmouth MRC for most of the 1960's until I joined the Merchant Navy in 1968, I really enjoyed being a member, and I know that the other members enjoyed me being there, as when my first wife and I got married in early 1969, the members were kind enough to give us a dinner service as a wedding present. With the usual things associated with home and family, railway modelling very much took a back seat, and although I did make a number of attempts at restarting over the years they all fell by the wayside. A few years ago, and as I thought at the time approaching retirement, which was then delayed for over two years, I decided to start railway modelling again. I visited a few of the local exhibitions and, purely by chance, got talking to the operator of an EM layout at one of them. He told me that ready to lay track was now available as were point kits with preassembled crossings and wheel sets on coaches & wagons could be simply exchanged. As I liked the look of his layout I joined the EMGS and therefore became an EM gauge modeller by pure chance. As to the second paragraph I was in no way trying to imply that anyone not modelling to a finer gauge than OO was in anyway inferior to anyone else; I remember 'Borchester' appearing in the model railway magazines of the time, and no one could say that it was anything less than magnificent. What I was trying to convey was that, in my opinion, the Dapol Class 22 is such a superb model that the few very minor errors were of no significance to me. Unfortunately, not knowing the history of this website, I did this by comparing the very minor errors to the discrepancy in the track gauge and promptly walked straight into a minefield. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) Unfortunately, not knowing the history of this website, I did this by comparing the very minor errors to the discrepancy in the track gauge and promptly walked straight into a minefield. It's not just this forum TM, it's a bit of a hoary old argument (IMHO) in the hobby in general. Another potential flashpoint is to make pithy observations without the substance of the backing argument. But hey, we've all done it at some time or other; your intentions were evidently sound enough, my reaction for one was possibly a tad trigger happy and so I'd like to thank you for responding with good grace. Edited November 24, 2011 by Pennine MC 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2011 Agreed Pennine, thanks Tankerman for that response - crisis averted 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2011 As others have send Dave the spec for P4 wheels, all I can do is to express my huge thanks for even considering this and ask that the option is given full and serious consideration - I'm also good for at least one set! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Picked mine up yesterday and was very impressed by the high quality and detail of this model. I think I'm going to re-pose the windscreen wipers to the top of the windscreens which seems to be a more common position for NBL type 2 production locos. I think the cab door window surround should probably be painted black. Fabulous model, definately need a few more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 ...I think I'm going to re-pose the windscreen wipers to the top of the windscreens which seems to be a more common position... Well spotted, though photos I have to hand of D6330 and D6331 in 1966/7 show the driver's side wiper as per the model and the other in the top of screen position. This is the case at both ends of 6331. Presumably the two wipers were independent and the resting position could be chosen to suit the driver's preference? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Well spotted, though photos I have to hand of D6330 and D6331 in 1966/7 show the driver's side wiper as per the model and the other in the top of screen position. This is the case at both ends of 6331. Presumably the two wipers were independent and the resting position could be chosen to suit the driver's preference? Nick The wipers were probably air or vacuum operated like a lot of the early BR diesels, they certainly weren't self parking though... the trick was to try and stop them so they didn't obscure your vision! There are numerous photos of 22s (and a few Warships) showing one or both wipers pointing up to the roof having been blown back by wind pressure whilst out on the road! Been having a fiddle with my own D6331 this afternoon, trying out some Heljan Hymek and Western headcodes, slightly trimmed down to fit.... they're temporarily just placed in the apertures in these pics, if I decide to use them the white edges will be blackened I was going to leave this one in green but have decided to turn into Laira's D6314 in BSYP livery, as per the lovely photo of it in Hugh Dady's 'Heyday Of The Hydraulics'. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2011 The wipers were probably air or vacuum operated like a lot of the early BR diesels, they certainly weren't self parking though... the trick was to try and stop them so they didn't obscure your vision! There are numerous photos of 22s (and a few Warships) showing one or both wipers pointing up to the roof having been blown back by wind pressure whilst out on the road! And then try to use the handle to push the wiper blade into a 'suitable' position, followed by restarting with the hope of getting it to stop in the right place this time round. Been having a fiddle with my own D6331 this afternoon, trying out some Heljan Hymek and Western headcodes, slightly trimmed down to fit.... they're temporarily just placed in the apertures in these pics, if I decide to use them the white edges will be blackened I think they look the business Nidge, all you want is a half turned one and a broken one and you're away. I was going to leave this one in green but have decided to turn into Laira's D6314 in BSYP livery, as per the lovely photo of it in Hugh Dady's 'Heyday Of The Hydraulics'. Are you feeling alright? BTW any thoughts about the over prominent rivet heads around the windscreen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Thanks for that, Nidge. I just about remember the delights of vacuum driven wipers on cars; put your foot down and the wipers stopped The headcodes look good, certainly much better than the supplied translucent ones. I was all ready to press the "Like This" button until I read your final sentence about repainting it in blue. Sacrilege, as with so much else on RWweb, there's no accounting for taste As to Mike's point about the rivets, they are reminiscent of the Dapol 14, and I hope a few strokes with a file will sort them out before serious weathering begins. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) Mike - I've not quite lost my few remaining marbles just yet! D6314 and D6327 in BSYP have long been on my list of favourite 22s 'to do' once a decent model had arrived, now that it has I thought ''well, why not''. We don't know at this point which locos Dave is going to choose for the next batch of releases so I thought I'd crack on and do my own, and anyway, all of my blue locos still get the Humbrol #221 treatment even if I bought them in blue livery to start with. The only bits of the Dapol bodyshell I won't need to repaint are the yellow panels and silver window surrounds, which leads me to those rivets.... I'm inclined to leave them alone as from a couple of feet away they don't really bother me. I can see why others might want to do something about them though, as per the Bachmann 47. Nick - each to their own squire!!! The early blue livery variants fit right into my 'Summer of '67' scenario.... that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.... roll on D600 and D602 as well! I'm sorting through the HJ headcode off cuts I have to find suitable Sou' Western numbers, might have to mix and match to get the ones I want. For 1967 you need more Cs than Bs! Edited November 25, 2011 by Rugd1022 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tankerman Posted November 26, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2011 Pennine & RedgateModels, thanks for your replies and kind words about my explanation. I too have always regarded railway modelling as a very 'broad church', as with such a popular hobby there is bound to be a large range of skills and interests. I'm now off to Portsmouth to combine two of my hobbies in one day, there's a layout I want to see at the South Hants exhibition and there is a 300,000 ton tanker sitting off the Isle of Wight. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) Nice prototype shot, don't think its been posted before http://www.flickr.com/photos/midlandexplorerboy/5267842667/sizes/m/ Edited November 26, 2011 by michael delamar 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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