Mk 2 Aircons

[jonathan452]

From the financial point of view I do wonder how well the forthcoming MK2 F coaches will pay back Bachmann's investment.

Airfix produced some air cons way back when, these then went to Dapol, then Hornby. Lima

I believe had some in their range.

Hornby made the less than perfect MK2 E variant , which can be had for £15 to £20.

 

This could all add up to a partially saturated market already, and any of the above mentioned

can be picked up very cheaply at shows etc.and will serve the less discerning.

I am sure the Bachmann MK2 F range will be fine, accurate models, but at today's prices.

How many modellers will forsake their earlier air cons. for the new products.

Particularly as the differences between MK 2 D, E &,F are pretty minimal in 4mm.

 

The specialist variants like the DBSO etc, will hopefully do well.

But rarely the TSO (particularly the Blue/Grey variant).

[mikeyh]

From the financial point of view I do wonder how well the forthcoming MK2 F coaches will pay back Bachmann's investment.

Airfix produced some air cons way back when, these then went to Dapol, then Hornby. Lima

I believe had some in their range.

Hornby made the less than perfect MK2 E variant , which can be had for £15 to £20.

 

This could all add up to a partially saturated market already, and any of the above mentioned

can be picked up very cheaply at shows etc.and will serve the less discerning.

I am sure the Bachmann MK2 F range will be fine, accurate models, but at today's prices.

How many modellers will forsake their earlier air cons. for the new products.

Particularly as the differences between MK 2 D, E &,F are pretty minimal in 4mm.

 

The specialist variants like the DBSO etc, will hopefully do well.

I hope Bachmann aren't looking at seemingly slow sales and heavy discounts for the Hornby coaches when deciding how to prioritise development of their own Mk2fs. I've deliberately not bought the  Hornby air-cons because of their well known shortcomings and will be happy(ish) to pay £40-£50.00 for the hopefully accurate Bachmann version when they do finally emerge.

 

Mike

[wirey33]

I hope Bachmann aren't looking at seemingly slow sales and heavy discounts for the Hornby coaches when deciding how to prioritise development of their own Mk2fs. I've deliberately not bought the  Hornby air-cons because of their well known shortcomings and will be happy(ish) to pay £40-£50.00 for the hopefully accurate Bachmann version when they do finally emerge.

 

Mike

 

Can you edit that to say "happy(ish) to pay £20-£30.00" please.

 

They don't need any encouragement :-)

[JSpencer]

Well, one assumes that these Aircoms will outclass the Dapol, Lima and Hornby ones by some margin, which - to be honest - is not hard to do.

 

However I read in BRM recently whereby someone was questioning whether we really need large stocks of modern tooled coaches considering the circular £50 mark. He spent a great deal of time calculating for his relatively huge layout and timetable, that he run all his trains with just 27 coaches by recycling the same vehicles on different trains. To my mind, such a number looked too few for a layout of his size, I have currently 24 coaches in 6 rakes on my much smaller layout right now with many others in boxes!

He also decided that coaches of rare types could be excluded and focused more on what was likely to appear in such a train. Not bad logic, but if we "all" followed the same, Manufacturers could return to the 80s and produce no more than say 3 different types per coach class. Not likely to happen...

I take a different if somewhat less prototypical approach by having as many deferent coach types in one rake. The Bachmann Fs will find themselves next to Hornby Es and Dapol Ds (the Lima Fs are 4mm under scale) in order to make a decent size train at a fraction of the cost for a full set of Bachmann Aircoms. Each will be unique in its type.

[Andrew F]

There's every chance these will sell like hot cakes at 45 to 50 pounds; after all, people are now used to paying out for observation/auto-coaches. There'll be an initial clambering for TSO's leaving sweet FO left to be "discounted".

 

It should be fair to say that these coaches will trounce the Hornby E's which are, seemingly a budget option and the lighting/non-lit already cause some division between buyers. Probably best to just go with the Bachmann F's when they come out if you don't mind spending a thou' on a couple of trains and many modellers don't.

 

When these are available there will eventually be a true mk2 aircon range for everyone and that is only a good thing. The Lima F's are I think only 2mm short; the 4mm out is along the flank rather than the vehicle length and to me, look the business with flushglazing. The Airfix/Dapol/Mainline D are not too bad either and look the part. I've recently stocked up on both for between 2 and 6 pounds per coach. 

 

Sometimes I think we expect so much from rtr that we forget about the overall impression of our layouts and how the stock fits in and it's importance but then again, it takes a heck of a lot of time and often money, to modify and paint stock. Maybe 50 quid is money well spent when it saves us a lot of time.

[GordonC]

If they're anything less than perfect and upwards of £40 they just wont sell. Look at the prices the solebar fitted Hornby Mk2Es were going for to get rid of them

[Andy Mac]

If they're anything less than perfect and upwards of £40 they just wont sell. Look at the prices the solebar fitted Hornby Mk2Es were going for to get rid of them

And look at the new price for the Hornby Mk2 D's & E's.... Now rrp of £40each.... one is a glammed up railroad model (new tooling admittedly) and the other is an ancient tooling that's probably older than some of the moders who are buying it....

[brushman47544]

I think it's a safe bet Bachmann Mk2Fs will see a further price rise this year, so the price differential compared to the Hornby Mk2Es is likely to remain. As regards Hornby selling their Mk2Es off cheap, I suspect they were overproduced (the second batch were announced (so the production run presumably committed to) before sales of the first batch were know. And I'm sure the appalling looks of the blue/grey livery on the TSO in particular didn't help sales - it certainly put me off.

[MJI]

I have a reasonable amount of Airfix 2Ds which hopefully will be enough, my small number of Lima 2Fs will be ran with some Jouef 3As

 

My Airfix 2Ds have produced so far

 

6 2D TSO

2 2D FK

1 2F FO

3 2E TSO

1 2D BFK

 

Not a bad model but I can't afford to replace around 20 aircons with new models.

 

£50 for a Bachman, will be nice models but not at £300 - £400 a rake, and then most of what I need are 2D and 2E with a small number of 2F

[wirey33]

Regarding pricing, the latest info about incoming Bachmann deliveries has the following info...

 

39-056A - MK 1 TSO coach in BR Regional Railways livery (weathered) No. 4854. WITH PASSENGERS FITTED - £54.95

 

39-364 - BR Mk 2A TSO in BR Regional Railways (weathered) livery No, 5276. WITH PASSENGERS FITTED - £64.95

 

These should be the most expensive versions available (Weathering and Passengers added) so I would expect that the RRP for the new Mk2fs base models would be £50, meaning a street (or internet) price of £43 to £45.

 

I'm fully expecting the DBSO to come in around £80 RRP which is a heavy increase from the similar inspection saloons but that's the way things are going.

[MJI]

Regarding pricing, the latest info about incoming Bachmann deliveries has the following info...

 

39-056A - MK 1 TSO coach in BR Regional Railways livery (weathered) No. 4854. WITH PASSENGERS FITTED - £54.95

 

39-364 - BR Mk 2A TSO in BR Regional Railways (weathered) livery No, 5276. WITH PASSENGERS FITTED - £64.95

 

These should be the most expensive versions available (Weathering and Passengers added) so I would expect that the RRP for the new Mk2fs base models would be £50, meaning a street (or internet) price of £43 to £45.

 

I'm fully expecting the DBSO to come in around £80 RRP which is a heavy increase from the similar inspection saloons but that's the way things are going.

 

 

Sort of prices pushing me into detailing earlier models, Comet side for £12 or so.

 

Hornby 2 TSO to a good model about £15

Lima Mk1 to a good model about the same.

Did a Triang RMB with Replica windows, bogies, MJT vents, Replica and Comet undeframe parts, some air cylinders from another company, cost me about £5 in bits, looks really good.

[Accurascale Fran]

I think they did the Irish 2d's for Murphys a few years back. With the windows way to high on the body..

 

Bachmann did not do these coaches. 

[BigAndy]

Bachmann did not do these coaches. 

 

Who produced them then? I was under the impression that it was Bachmann who did them for Murphy's........

 

cheers

 

Andy

[Marcyg]

Think I'll stick with my older Lima and Dapol coaches. New wheels or bogies, detailing and they're good to go. And at least I can say that I did it rather than over pay for something. Turning into a rich mans hobby again

[Flood]

I never realised I was rich, just prudent.

[surfsup]

I am sure Sanda Kan (Bachmanns owners) made them. There was much discussion about it at the time.

Produced by Kader. IIRC Kader bought out Sander Kan who were manufacturing for Hornby.

 

Kader Industries are Bachmann Industries parent. I think a lot of people confuse the MM Models as being produced by Bachmann partly because of the first models - which were produced by Bachmann, but also being produced by Kader and possibly in the same factory allows the use of shared components - B5 Bogies, Couplings etc.

[delticfan]

I think it will be good to have a choice between a high and low cost option for the coaches. If people want to pay £50 per coach so be it but it's good to have the option of the Hornby item too. Personally I'm moving away from the Bachmann model but that may change when we finally see them if not I can go for Hornby.

[Accurascale Fran]

I am sure Sanda Kan (Bachmanns owners) made them. There was much discussion about it at the time.

 

They were not produced by Sanda Kan, they were sourced from another Chinese factory.

 

Murphy Models did commission Mark IIA coaches from Bachmann which came in a similar Bachmann box to the 141s but the air con Mark IIs (and the 201 locos) came from a different factory. 

[ThaneofFife]

Regarding pricing, the latest info about incoming Bachmann deliveries has the following info...

 

39-056A - MK 1 TSO coach in BR Regional Railways livery (weathered) No. 4854. WITH PASSENGERS FITTED - £54.95

 

39-364 - BR Mk 2A TSO in BR Regional Railways (weathered) livery No, 5276. WITH PASSENGERS FITTED - £64.95

 

These should be the most expensive versions available (Weathering and Passengers added) so I would expect that the RRP for the new Mk2fs base models would be £50, meaning a street (or internet) price of £43 to £45.

 

I'm fully expecting the DBSO to come in around £80 RRP which is a heavy increase from the similar inspection saloons but that's the way things are going.

 

Gulp.......... Where on the price list will that put the DCC lighting versions of the coaches especially if they are still say 1 year away. Likely to be about £55-60 after initial discounting say circa £75 RRP and the DBSO with its extra cab features is I suspect going to be around £90.  Thing is are you saving much if you buy a different coach from Lima or Dapol et al then buy and fit your flush glazing and the etched window frames, prep and paint and maybe fit pick ups and interior lighting or passengers?  Some people may like their "modelling" but value their time and would rather cough up and have a sublime RTR model in a great finish they can enjoy straight off the bat and are happy for others to worry themselves into an early grave about all that "built not bought" nonsense.

[Marcyg]

Gulp.......... Where on the price list will that put the DCC lighting versions of the coaches especially if they are still say 1 year away. Likely to be about £55-60 after initial discounting say circa £75 RRP and the DBSO with its extra cab features is I suspect going to be around £90.  Thing is are you saving much if you buy a different coach from Lima or Dapol et al then buy and fit your flush glazing and the etched window frames, prep and paint and maybe fit pick ups and interior lighting or passengers?  Some people may like their "modelling" but value their time and would rather cough up and have a sublime RTR model in a great finish they can enjoy straight off the bat and are happy for others to worry themselves into an early grave about all that "built not bought" nonsense.

Depends if you already own the coaches I guess.

[cessna152towser]

Just been e-mailed by Hattons today that Bachmann have confirmed the list price for the Aircon RFB which I pre-ordered back in June 2013 will be £49.95, and that all the Mark 2f releases should be available in March/April 2018.   I'll be retired by then and as an OAP I won't be buying any more Bachmann Aircon stock at that sort of price, when the RFB eventually arrives it can run with my Lima, Dapol and Hornby Mk2 Aircons.

[MJI]

Just been e-mailed by Hattons today that Bachmann have confirmed the list price for the Aircon RFB which I pre-ordered back in June 2013 will be £49.95, and that all the Mark 2f releases should be available in March/April 2018.   I'll be retired by then and as an OAP I won't be buying any more Bachmann Aircon stock at that sort of price, when the RFB eventually arrives it can run with my Lima, Dapol and Hornby Mk2 Aircons.

 

Or in that time, replace fan, roof hatch, door window resize, EE glazing and frames on a few old Airfix vehicles.

 

My 2F needs are low enough to do this.

[ThaneofFife]

i had a similar notification today advising me the new RRP is £74.95 on the dcc versions but the new discounted price is £63.71 on the following models;-

 

Livery - BR blue and grey Inter-City

TSO  39-675 C

FO     39-650 DC

 

My estimate topped out at £60 so I was out by just a couple quid.

 

I think my pre-order price was about £33 ( so double).  One point of note is that the coaches are fitted with a decoder (also states analogue compatible) which almost accounts for the extra £13 -14 odd over the non lit versions.

 

shame none of the bulk buy discounts on top as per many of the Hattons 4 or 8 pack deals.

[ThaneofFife]

and yes good idea to merge both mk2f threads.......crazy having two running.

[stovepipe]

Bachmann themselves are not showing prices on their website, so I'm not sure if this is based on the official price or just Hatton's taking a punt? No other retailer is giving prices as far as I can see.