Oxford Rail announce OO gauge 6-wheeled GWR Toad Brake Van

[TrevorP1]

The Jim Russell photograph of 56943 was first published in his very first GWR Wagons book from OPC way back in 1971!.....

Yes I remember it now..! The small grey book. Spent one of my first wage packets on it!

[BG John]

Well I've gone mad and pre-ordered one. I can cancel it if it's looking like it will be rubbish, but it's a novelty pre-ordering, as the only thing I've ever done it on is my Dapol O gauge Terriers. I'm having to rethink my brake van strategy, and may even increase the order eventually! I just hope that if they're doing it exactly like the photo, the number plate is easily removable, as the number will need changing when the centre wheels come off.

[Dunsignalling]

Well I've gone mad and pre-ordered one. I can cancel it if it's looking like it will be rubbish, but it's a novelty pre-ordering, as the only thing I've ever done it on is my Dapol O gauge Terriers. I'm having to rethink my brake van strategy, and may even increase the order eventually! I just hope that if they're doing it exactly like the photo, the number plate is easily removable, as the number will need changing when the centre wheels come off.

As they are doing two others without number plates, you can pretty much guarantee they will be separate parts.

 

You just have to hope they use the same glue as Hornby to fix them on.

 

John

Edited October 1, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[BG John]

As they are doing two others without number plates, you can pretty much guarantee they will be separate parts.

 

You just have to hope they use the same glue as Hornby to fix them on.

 

John

Except that the body will have to be a different moulding, as the other versions have sheeting over the bottom planks. Or one of them does anyway, as the other isn't clear from what I've seen.

 

It does seem an odd choice, as it doesn't go with their earliest version of the Dean Goods. From what I remember when I was checking up on it, I think the Dean Goods is as running from about 1910 to maybe sometime in WW1. Wagon number plates started to be removed from 1904, when the large GW lettering was introduced, so I doubt if any brake vans would have still had plates by 1910.

Edited October 1, 2016 by BG John

[The Stationmaster]

56943 was allocated to Bridport specifically to work the daily morning mixed train from Maiden Newton to Bridport.  The photograph used by Oxford was taken by Jim Russell in the summer of 1947 and shows the vehicle in very good condition so it may have only recently have been shopped and allocated to Bridport - the photo was taken of the vehicle standing in the up platform at Bridport and shows the afternoon goods being assembled ready for departure for Maiden Newton.  So far as I know 56943 was unusual - unique? - in that it was vacuum fitted and had steam heat pipes for use when working the daily mixed train.  The vehicle remained at Bridport until at least the mid 1950s when it was again photographed in Bridport goods yard in BR livery.

 

And Bridport was anything but a sleepy branchline - it had an extensive passenger service worked by two locomotives and B sets as well as goods trains and there was little leeway in the service.  Further information will be found in a new book to be released before Christmas from Wild Swan Books.

 

This model should be able to find a home on my Maiden Newton project and I just hope they get it right as I have been lukewarm about their previous products - seperate handrails are a must for a start!

 

Gerry

 

An interesting question arises as to why on earth a freight brakevan would need steam pipes (or even vacuum pipes come to that) to run in a Mixed Train?  Sounds more likely that it possibly ran attached, light, to a passenger train at some time during its working day and that for some reason it had to be marshalled front.  Or - an even more interesting question (which would explain the steam pipes) - would be if it was used with the passenger set for braking purposes when releasing the engine at Maiden Newton?

[Quarryscapes]

 

Aberystwyth - 1

 

 

Well, that'll do me nicely! Christ Hattons are doing well at emptying my wallet this year! 

[BG John]

An interesting question arises as to why on earth a freight brakevan would need steam pipes (or even vacuum pipes come to that) to run in a Mixed Train?  Sounds more likely that it possibly ran attached, light, to a passenger train at some time during its working day and that for some reason it had to be marshalled front.  Or - an even more interesting question (which would explain the steam pipes) - would be if it was used with the passenger set for braking purposes when releasing the engine at Maiden Newton?

It looks as though it was only there for a relatively short time, compared the time there were 4 wheel vans. Were they piped too, or did mixed trains only run for a few years? Or as it was elsewhere until 1944, did mixed trains normally use the main line platforms, but with extra traffic during the war they had to use the bay, so different arrangements were needed?

 

Would the mixed train from Bridport have to be gravity shunted at Maiden Newton, to get the coaches back into the bay platform, before the wagons could be removed? And surely the train to Bridport would need the wagons on the front, as the whole train wouldn't fit in the bay, so maybe the brake was between the loco and coaches. That might explain the need for the pipes, and maybe a 6 wheel brake van was felt to have more braking power as passengers were involved.

[SRman]

As they are doing two others without number plates, you can pretty much guarantee they will be separate parts.

 

You just have to hope they use the same glue as Hornby to fix them on.

 

John

 

Or, even better, the glue Dapol used on their class 73 models in OO!

[Bulwell Hall]

It looks as though it was only there for a relatively short time, compared the time there were 4 wheel vans. Were they piped too, or did mixed trains only run for a few years? Or as it was elsewhere until 1944, did mixed trains normally use the main line platforms, but with extra traffic during the war they had to use the bay, so different arrangements were needed?

 

Would the mixed train from Bridport have to be gravity shunted at Maiden Newton, to get the coaches back into the bay platform, before the wagons could be removed? And surely the train to Bridport would need the wagons on the front, as the whole train wouldn't fit in the bay, so maybe the brake was between the loco and coaches. That might explain the need for the pipes, and maybe a 6 wheel brake van was felt to have more braking power as passengers were involved.

 

The whole business of operating the Maiden Newton to Bridport mixed train is interesting and my investigations were inconclusive.  Firstly the mixed train only worked in the down direction - Maiden Newton to Bridport - and there was no equivilent up mixed train.  The first train of the day from Bridport comprised an engine - either pannier or 45xx - and a single coach - known to the staff as the 'night coach' and which was a former Toplight double ended slip coach - which worked up to MN and the coach was then stabled - usually at the far end of the gravity siding against the stops.  The second departure of the day from Bridport was the usual branch engine - again either pannier or 45xx - and B set which worked to MN.  The engine of the first train shunted the yard at MN which mostly entailed sorting the wagons left at MN by the passing overnight goods trains from Bristol East Depot and STJ to Weymouth and those wagons for Bridport were then attached to the six wheel Toad - which had arrived at MN at the rear of the previous afternoon/evening goods train.  Then the Bridport wagons and the Toad were attached to the rear of the B set and BOTH engines and the complete ensemble worked back to Bridport!  The departure for this working was from the Down main line platform - hence the need for an up starting signal on the down platform.  The 'night coach' was returned to Bridport later in the day attached to a passenger train.

 

There are two further interesting features attached to this unusual working - firstly, as this was an unbalanced working with two trains running from Bridport to MN but only one train returning the electric train staffs accumulated in the staff machine at MN signalbox.  Therefore every fortnight, on a Monday morning I believe, a S&T man arrived from Yeovil and removed twelve staffs from the machine and carried them, in a leather carrier, back to Bridport by passenger train and placed them in the staff machine in Bridport signalbox.  Needless to say there were very strict regulations about how this was done as obviously there could be implications in having more than one staff out of the machine but it was done and I know one of the linemen who's duty it was for some years.  And secondly it is quite remarkable that this interesting operation does not seem to have ever been photographed - at least I have never found or even seen a photograph of the mixed train!  It must have been well known to local railway enthusiasts of the time but it seems to have completely escaped the camera - a double headed mixed train must have made quite a sight.

 

As for the Toad having vacuum and steam heat pipes I can offer no explanation.  Perhaps, as Mike has said, it sometimes ran attached between the engine and the regular B set as a means of getting it to MN and was placed thus so that it could be easily removed when the B set was set back into the gravity siding.  But nobody I have ever spoken to has mentioned this and sadly most, if not all of the railwaymen who would know, are no longer with us.

 

Gerry

Edited October 2, 2016 by Bulwell Hall

[BG John]

Over what period did the Bridport mixed train work? Was it just while the 6 wheel brake was there, or for many years? It only really interests me if it operated in the early 1900s, or earlier!

[The Stationmaster]

The whole business of operating the Maiden Newton to Bridport mixed train is interesting and my investigations were inconclusive.  Firstly the mixed train only worked in the down direction - Maiden Newton to Bridport - and there was no equivilent up mixed train.  The first train of the day from Bridport comprised an engine - either pannier or 45xx - and a single coach - known to the staff as the 'night coach' and which was a former Toplight double ended slip coach - which worked up to MN and the coach was then stabled - usually at the far end of the gravity siding against the stops.  The second departure of the day from Bridport was the usual branch engine - again either pannier or 45xx - and B set which worked to MN.  The engine of the first train shunted the yard at MN which mostly entailed sorting the wagons left at MN by the passing overnight goods trains from Bristol East Depot and STJ to Weymouth and those wagons for Bridport were then attached to the six wheel Toad - which had arrived at MN at the rear of the previous afternoon/evening goods train.  Then the Bridport wagons and the Toad were attached to the rear of the B set and BOTH engines and the complete ensemble worked back to Bridport!  The departure for this working was from the Down main line platform - hence the need for an up starting signal on the down platform.  The 'night coach' was returned to Bridport later in the day attached to a passenger train.

 

There are two further interesting features attached to this unusual working - firstly, as this was an unbalanced working with two trains running from Bridport to MN but only one train returning the electric train staffs accumulated in the staff machine at MN signalbox.  Therefore every fortnight, on a Monday morning I believe, a S&T man arrived from Yeovil and removed twelve staffs from the machine and carried them, in a leather carrier, back to Bridport by passenger train and placed them in the staff machine in Bridport signalbox.  Needless to say there were very strict regulations about how this was done as obviously there could be implications in having more than one staff out of the machine but it was done and I know one of the linemen who's duty it was for some years.  And secondly it is quite remarkable that this interesting operation does not seem to have ever been photographed - at least I have never found or even seen a photograph of the mixed train!  It must have been well known to local railway enthusiasts of the time but it seems to have completely escaped the camera - a double headed mixed train must have made quite a sight.

 

As for the Toad having vacuum and steam heat pipes I can offer no explanation.  Perhaps, as Mike has said, it sometimes ran attached between the engine and the regular B set as a means of getting it to MN and was placed thus so that it could be easily removed when the B set was set back into the gravity siding.  But nobody I have ever spoken to has mentioned this and sadly most, if not all of the railwaymen who would know, are no longer with us.

 

Gerry

 

Interestingly the October 1947 STT shows Mixed Trains in both directions.  The 08.07 Maiden Newton to Bridport ran daily (or rather was booked as Mixed daily) whereas the train the in the opposite direction, 20.50 from Bridport was shown to run ThSO only as Mixed, and ThSX as Freight with a separate, later, passenger train running ThSO.  The 1938 STT only has a morning Mixed train to Bridport and no Mixed in the opposite direction.

 

Regrettably all the folk I know who had anything to do with the branch back in steam days are long gone, as indeed are many of those who worked over it in its final years.  Token/tablet/train staff balancing was a regular feature on some lines and indeed sometimes used to be necessary after the singling of the Castle Cary - Dorchester line with tokens having to be transferred for the Yeovil PM - Maiden Newton section.  I can claim the almost unique distinction of being one of the last two people to travel over the Bridport branch prior to demolition as the local PWME from Yeovil and I spent a  day on the branch with a motor trolley and trailer in the week following closure recovering artifacts etc from the various stations and I had also placed the wreath on the final passenger train from Maiden Newton to Bridport (best not say much about the bottle of vodka a well-wisher had given to the traincrew earlier that day ).

 

And of course one amusing oddity about the branch in its later years was that the busiest intermediate point for passengers was not a station/halt.

[BG John]

Being a very sad person with nothing better to do while waiting for glue to dry, I adjusted the perspective on Oxford's CAD drawing, and the photo of the Rogerstone & Swindon van, and overlaid them on a drawing of an AA1. They all match pretty well, so, as far as I can see, Oxford are heading in the right direction. Posting the result wouldn't show it very clearly though, so I won't.

[Mr chapman]

Oxford's pricing seams very good. Why did I buy the Oxford radial over Hornby's? About thirty reasons. So if one of the others come along with a six wheeler I doubt very much that it will be £12.50... And Oxford will get my money again

[Ozexpatriate]

Is there any reason these are listed on the Oxford diecast website rather than the Oxford Rail website?

 

Not that it matters of course.

[BG John]

Is there any reason these are listed on the Oxford diecast website rather than the Oxford Rail website?

 

Not that it matters of course.

Oh dear. Does that mean they will be non working, and won't actually fit on track?

[Steamport Southport]

I think they list them there as it's set up to order them.

 

The Oxford Rail website seems to be just for news. Although it doesn't seem to be updated often.

 

 

Jason

[Joseph_Pestell]

The whole business of operating the Maiden Newton to Bridport mixed train is interesting and my investigations were inconclusive.  Firstly the mixed train only worked in the down direction - Maiden Newton to Bridport - and there was no equivilent up mixed train.  The first train of the day from Bridport comprised an engine - either pannier or 45xx - and a single coach - known to the staff as the 'night coach' and which was a former Toplight double ended slip coach - which worked up to MN and the coach was then stabled - usually at the far end of the gravity siding against the stops.  The second departure of the day from Bridport was the usual branch engine - again either pannier or 45xx - and B set which worked to MN.  The engine of the first train shunted the yard at MN which mostly entailed sorting the wagons left at MN by the passing overnight goods trains from Bristol East Depot and STJ to Weymouth and those wagons for Bridport were then attached to the six wheel Toad - which had arrived at MN at the rear of the previous afternoon/evening goods train.  Then the Bridport wagons and the Toad were attached to the rear of the B set and BOTH engines and the complete ensemble worked back to Bridport!  The departure for this working was from the Down main line platform - hence the need for an up starting signal on the down platform.  The 'night coach' was returned to Bridport later in the day attached to a passenger train.

 

There are two further interesting features attached to this unusual working - firstly, as this was an unbalanced working with two trains running from Bridport to MN but only one train returning the electric train staffs accumulated in the staff machine at MN signalbox.  Therefore every fortnight, on a Monday morning I believe, a S&T man arrived from Yeovil and removed twelve staffs from the machine and carried them, in a leather carrier, back to Bridport by passenger train and placed them in the staff machine in Bridport signalbox.  Needless to say there were very strict regulations about how this was done as obviously there could be implications in having more than one staff out of the machine but it was done and I know one of the linemen who's duty it was for some years.  And secondly it is quite remarkable that this interesting operation does not seem to have ever been photographed - at least I have never found or even seen a photograph of the mixed train!  It must have been well known to local railway enthusiasts of the time but it seems to have completely escaped the camera - a double headed mixed train must have made quite a sight.

 

As for the Toad having vacuum and steam heat pipes I can offer no explanation.  Perhaps, as Mike has said, it sometimes ran attached between the engine and the regular B set as a means of getting it to MN and was placed thus so that it could be easily removed when the B set was set back into the gravity siding.  But nobody I have ever spoken to has mentioned this and sadly most, if not all of the railwaymen who would know, are no longer with us.

 

Gerry

Many thanks for this fascinating answer.

 

Although not generally a GW buff, I have always been interested in Maiden Newton with its strange track layout. You have managed to reply to the many questions that I have had, particularly that bracket signal at the up end of the down platform but also generally the way in which the freight services were operated.

[darren01]

And £14.00 a bargain......

[a98087]

The whole business of operating the Maiden Newton to Bridport mixed train is interesting and my investigations were inconclusive.  Firstly the mixed train only worked in the down direction - Maiden Newton to Bridport - and there was no equivilent up mixed train.  The first train of the day from Bridport comprised an engine - either pannier or 45xx - and a single coach - known to the staff as the 'night coach' and which was a former Toplight double ended slip coach - which worked up to MN and the coach was then stabled - usually at the far end of the gravity siding against the stops.  The second departure of the day from Bridport was the usual branch engine - again either pannier or 45xx - and B set which worked to MN.  The engine of the first train shunted the yard at MN which mostly entailed sorting the wagons left at MN by the passing overnight goods trains from Bristol East Depot and STJ to Weymouth and those wagons for Bridport were then attached to the six wheel Toad - which had arrived at MN at the rear of the previous afternoon/evening goods train.  Then the Bridport wagons and the Toad were attached to the rear of the B set and BOTH engines and the complete ensemble worked back to Bridport!  The departure for this working was from the Down main line platform - hence the need for an up starting signal on the down platform.  The 'night coach' was returned to Bridport later in the day attached to a passenger train.

 

There are two further interesting features attached to this unusual working - firstly, as this was an unbalanced working with two trains running from Bridport to MN but only one train returning the electric train staffs accumulated in the staff machine at MN signalbox.  Therefore every fortnight, on a Monday morning I believe, a S&T man arrived from Yeovil and removed twelve staffs from the machine and carried them, in a leather carrier, back to Bridport by passenger train and placed them in the staff machine in Bridport signalbox.  Needless to say there were very strict regulations about how this was done as obviously there could be implications in having more than one staff out of the machine but it was done and I know one of the linemen who's duty it was for some years.  And secondly it is quite remarkable that this interesting operation does not seem to have ever been photographed - at least I have never found or even seen a photograph of the mixed train!  It must have been well known to local railway enthusiasts of the time but it seems to have completely escaped the camera - a double headed mixed train must have made quite a sight.

 

As for the Toad having vacuum and steam heat pipes I can offer no explanation.  Perhaps, as Mike has said, it sometimes ran attached between the engine and the regular B set as a means of getting it to MN and was placed thus so that it could be easily removed when the B set was set back into the gravity siding.  But nobody I have ever spoken to has mentioned this and sadly most, if not all of the railwaymen who would know, are no longer with us.

 

Gerry

That balancing of tokens in the token machine is still a regular occurrence at maiden Newton, it happens 3 times a week, as all the tokens build up in the token token hut and need transferring to the upside hut.

 

It's a easy job as there is a cartridge that bolts onto the side of the token machine, the tokens are transferred, and the cartridge is removed process is repeated in reverse on the other token machine

 

Dan

[Torn-on-the-platform]

A bit of a curveball but I can easily justify getting one. Especially at that price! I can imagine a Hornby/Bachmann offering being in the range of the low-mid £20s

[drduncan]

I don't suppose there is anything approaching a specific release month in mind as opposed to sometime soon we promise...

Drduncan

[Garethp8873]

Proposed liveries of the Toads are now on Oxford's page. The early livery is now the pre-1936 livery...

[BG John]

Grrrrr. That means it will probably need repainting. It looks like 16" GW lettering, not 25". I pre-ordered it based on the photo with the pre 1904 small GWR. 25" lettering might just be OK for my 1905 date, but it's not what I want, and totally unsuitable for the other one or two I was thinking of buying. One black mark so far.

[Miss Prism]

25" G W would be more suitable for their planked version. (Sheeting began c 1915?)

Edited December 1, 2016 by Miss Prism

[The Fatadder]

Did anyone at Warley get to ask Oxford if it will be having separate handrails, particularly given the Hornby announcement