The Flying Scotsman BBC4 29 December 9PM

[Paul.Uni]

 

The Flying Scotsman

BBC Four viewers can sit back and enjoy a sixty minute trip from the driving seat of the Flying Scotsman, with a signal-by-signal guide to life on the footplate of the nation's favourite steam engine. In a special one-off slow tv treat for Christmas, the crew take locomotive 60103 down the Severn Valley Railway, cutting through stunning landscapes on a journey from Bridgnorth to Kidderminster, in the midlands of England.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2016/bbc-four-new-commissions?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_press_office&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=corporate

[Stevelewis]

Oh  Dear. not  again  the  Nations  Favourite Steam  Engine  I must  change  my avatar!

[JohnR]

Last years "slow tv" treat was a sleigh ride through the snow, and that was on Christmas Eve. Was really good to wrap presents by.

[chrisf]

[Picks up script]

 

Oh dear, what a shame, I shall miss it through my absence from the country.  Oh, and when is the film about paint drying going to be shown?

 

[Puts down script]

 

Chris

[Ian Hargrave]

Remember "The Country Bus " ride along the Dales to Ribblehead screened a couple of months ago? No spoken commentary,just miles of glorious scenery and the occasional exchange between passengers and driver. If this Christmas programme is made along the same lines as "slow TV" then sit back and enjoy. This might just surprise you.

[rab]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2016/bbc-four-new-commissions?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_press_office&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=corporate

I see the heading of the article quotes

'Comedy, entertainment and factual'.

Which one does the FS programme come under?

[Paul.Uni]

[russ p]

How exciting 16 miles at 25mph, what is the next episode HST power car on a wheel skate from Heaton to Doncaster with all the excitement of two hours in ferryhill loop!

[wombatofludham]

Oh God not more Flying Jockstrap.

​I like BBC4 and their take on the Norwegian "Slow TV" phenomenon has been nicely done but I think I'll be otherwise engaged when this is on.  Sorry, any other loco would have been fine but the fact it's this media luvvie which robbed the National Collection of over £4million that could have been better spent on conserving other items, digitising their huge reference document collection and stuffing and mounting this over-rated tea urn means I'm not a fan.

For the avoidance of doubt.

[johnd]

Oh God not more Flying Jockstrap.

 

​I like BBC4 and their take on the Norwegian "Slow TV" phenomenon has been nicely done but I think I'll be otherwise engaged when this is on.  Sorry, any other loco would have been fine but the fact it's this media luvvie which robbed the National Collection of over £4million that could have been better spent on conserving other items, digitising their huge reference document collection and stuffing and mounting this over-rated tea urn means I'm not a fan.

 

For the avoidance of doubt.

 

Am in TOTAL AGREEMENT

[Hroth]

Noooooooo......

 

A "Slow TV" trip along the SVR yes.  On the footplate of an appropriate GWR loco? Perfect!

 

But the Bloody Flying Moneypit?  (pardon my French)

 

I think someone at the NRM is thinking up these wizard wheezes, they need the advertising to get people to support the Moneypit after wasting so much  on restoring what is a very ordinary A3 to main line condition.  And the current crop of luvvies at the BBC swallow the NRM propaganda about the significance of the BFM without question.

 

I'll probably watch because I enjoyed the other Slow TV programmes (the one of the Kennet and Avon canal was particularly restful) and it might be nice to experience the SVR from the footplate.  It'll just be difficult to put the BFM out of the picture!

[wollastonblue]

I shall watch it as one of my neighbours has been involved with it. It's a shame it's the Flying Scotsman rather than say Bradley Manor or the 14xx and Autocoach. But hopefully with a the input from a railway professional and an enthusiast, it should be quite good.

[Colin_McLeod]

I'm looking forward to this programme. Despite the arguments to the contrary the Flying Scotsman is indeed a fine locomotive.

[bescotbeast]

How exciting 16 miles at 25mph, what is the next episode HST power car on a wheel skate from Heaton to Doncaster with all the excitement of two hours in ferryhill loop!

Or a 377 unit on skates from Gatwick to Lovers Walk for those of a Southern/third rail bent 

[Ian Hargrave]

I'm looking forward to this programme. Despite the arguments to the contrary the Flying Scotsman is indeed a fine locomotive.

I'm looking forward to this programme. Despite the arguments to the contrary the Flying Scotsman is indeed a fine locomotive.

I am bemused by the fact that a member has posted "funny" on this. It would seem that it is fashionable on this thread to denigrate the efforts that have been made to resurrect 60103 into working condition. I'm sure Ian Riley and his team are appreciative of that...or nor as the case may be.During the time it spent recently on the SVR it was an amazingly effective money spinner for a local economy in dire need of a boost.All trips were a sell out . We may sneer at that .Your choice. Fact is though it made a lot of money and spread a little happiness. Is that to be sneered at ? But then you may prefer the EastEnders Christmas Special......

[Colin_McLeod]

£4M for FS is cheap compared to £30M every year for Eastenders http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2011-05-14/how-much-do-soap-stars-earn

[wombatofludham]

What the Hell has East Enders got to do with the price of fish?

 

My objection to the £4million spent by the NRM on Flying Jockstrap is that it is not the job of the NRM to fund expensive restorations, and non-authentic modifications, to a loco that is only famous for being the darling of the LNER publicity machine, to allow it to run on the mainline so relatively wealthy "enthusiasts" can quaff wine and scoff fine food behind it.  OK, it is doing a "tour" of some heritage lines which makes it slightly more accessible, but that £4million should have been spent on other conservation jobs, not a celebrity kettle.  We all know the APT conservation group are working on their Jack Jones to try and keep a far more important piece of railway technology in one piece.  The Class 306 EMU which ran on the mainline back in the 1990s, and again technologically and developmentally of more significance than FS, is rotting away.  If the NRM is the National Steam Celebrity Museum, then it should come clean.  If it really is the National RAILWAY museum, it should prioritise it's funds to improve access to it's collection of documents and artefacts that tell the story of the development of the railways, and on keeping some of it's less glamourous items in good nick.  The NRM isn't a funfair or theme park.  It could have put Flying Jockstrap in the Great Hall alongside the arguably more significant Mallard and it would have been fulfilling it's role to keep the loco for posterity, and used the remaining millions of pounds to undertake it's proper role as an educational charity.

 

Scotsman is not significant technologically or in any historical context apart from it's "100mph" claim, which is disputed by those who support copper kettles anyway.  It's the loco equivalent of a reality TV star, famous for being famous.  And it's not worthy of spending millions on by an educational charity so it can entertain those who've got the money to ride behind it.  I'm sure Ian Riley has done a grand job and no-one is denigrating that, it's the cock-eyed decision making by the NRM that is being criticised, and no-one will convince me that the NRM, an educational charity, should be in the entertainment business.

[bescotbeast]

I am bemused by the fact that a member has posted "funny" on this. It would seem that it is fashionable on this thread to denigrate the efforts that have been made to resurrect 60103 into working condition. I'm sure Ian Riley and his team are appreciative of that...or nor as the case may be.During the time it spent recently on the SVR it was an amazingly effective money spinner for a local economy in dire need of a boost.All trips were a sell out . We may sneer at that .Your choice. Fact is though it made a lot of money and spread a little happiness. Is that to be sneered at ? But then you may prefer the EastEnders Christmas Special......

Wow! you caught me with my hand in the cookie jar, I posted the funny emoji, why? because I happen to feel that as others have pointed out £4 million is a hell of a lot of money to throw at just one locomotive.

You have your opinion that you're welcome to just as I have mine.

 

Simon 

[bescotbeast]

I am bemused by the fact that a member has posted "funny" on this. It would seem that it is fashionable on this thread to denigrate the efforts that have been made to resurrect 60103 into working condition. I'm sure Ian Riley and his team are appreciative of that...or nor as the case may be.During the time it spent recently on the SVR it was an amazingly effective money spinner for a local economy in dire need of a boost.All trips were a sell out . We may sneer at that .Your choice. Fact is though it made a lot of money and spread a little happiness. Is that to be sneered at ? But then you may prefer the EastEnders Christmas Special......

I also don't watch Eastenders nor any other Soaps, any TV i do watch is via Netflix or I'm on my layout if you want to know what's on the box at Christmas get yourself a TV Times 

[Steamport Southport]

Give it a rest Auntie Beeb. There are other engines out there. How about the one that you supported for many years instead? 532 Blue Peter as it's known to generations.

 

 

As for the comparisons with EastEnders. Never watched it personally, but it's watched by tens of millions of people and probably makes far more money than Flying Scotsman ever will. Overseas sales, merchandise, etc. and not the tat that you see in the back of TV magazines. I hope all you Flying Scotsman fans get a Flying Scotsman Christmas tree this year. You deserve it.    

 

 

And the cost of the "overrated tea urn"* was estimated at more than £6 million in a recent Steam Railway. This is when they are neglecting, selling and scrapping historic items. Add the LMS 502 to the 306.

 

 

*Not my words, but it made me chuckle.

 

 

 

Jason

[t-b-g]

Firstly, I am sure that a footplate trip on Flying Scotsman will get far more viewers that a footplate ride on something like a GWR 14xx that only a railway enthusiast will have heard of.

 

Secondly, the cost of the overhaul may have been high but the purchase and the overhaul was the subject of much fundraising and those people may not have given that funding for other projects so the money may well have not been available for other projects.

 

Thirdly, those moaning about the cost have made no mention of the revenue that the loco has already generated for the NRM, from main line runs and for the preserved lines that it has appeared at. they have all earned good money, with some making very good money indeed.

 

I did hear that on one railway, takings were around £300,000 above normal in just one week.

 

Flying Scotsman is popular and very famous. It is, as far as I know, the loco that has had the most programs and films made about it. Perhaps it is difficult for people who have their own favourites to accept that but it is just the way things are. Moaning about it on RMWeb won't make it any less so but I hope it makes those who moan about it feel as though they have got something of their collective chests.

 

I would probably have preferred a 75mph run on a main line but at least there is lovely scenery along the Severn Valley Railway and the run will fit with the "slow TV" theme.

[wombatofludham]

Firstly, I am sure that a footplate trip on Flying Scotsman will get far more viewers that a footplate ride on something like a GWR 14xx that only a railway enthusiast will have heard of.

 

Secondly, the cost of the overhaul may have been high but the purchase and the overhaul was the subject of much fundraising and those people may not have given that funding for other projects so the money may well have not been available for other projects.

 

Thirdly, those moaning about the cost have made no mention of the revenue that the loco has already generated for the NRM, from main line runs and for the preserved lines that it has appeared at. they have all earned good money, with some making very good money indeed.

 

I did hear that on one railway, takings were around £300,000 above normal in just one week.

 

Flying Scotsman is popular and very famous. It is, as far as I know, the loco that has had the most programs and films made about it. Perhaps it is difficult for people who have their own favourites to accept that but it is just the way things are. Moaning about it on RMWeb won't make it any less so but I hope it makes those who moan about it feel as though they have got something of their collective chests.

 

I would probably have preferred a 75mph run on a main line but at least there is lovely scenery along the Severn Valley Railway and the run will fit with the "slow TV" theme.

 

I think you are missing the point.

 

In what way did spending £4million on the restoration help the NRM in it's primary function as an educational charity?  So what if the loco is "famous" and had programmes and films made of it?  Did the £4million assist the Great British Public's understanding of the history, social and economic contribution of Britain's railways to modern Britain in any way which is what the main function of the NRM is?  Or has it just pandered to popularity and served to confuse the bewildered even more that all steam locos are either Flying Scotsman or Thomas?

 

Whatever income it has generated it will be a very long time before it starts to repay the £4million pounds spent on it or making a contribution towards the upkeep of other artefacts.

[Paul.Uni]

So what would you do with the money that was donated for the purchase and overhaul of FS? Give it back as you didn't do what it was donated for?

[t-b-g]

I think you are missing the point.

 

In what way did spending £4million on the restoration help the NRM in it's primary function as an educational charity?  So what if the loco is "famous" and had programmes and films made of it?  Did the £4million assist the Great British Public's understanding of the history, social and economic contribution of Britain's railways to modern Britain in any way which is what the main function of the NRM is?  Or has it just pandered to popularity and served to confuse the bewildered even more that all steam locos are either Flying Scotsman or Thomas?

 

Whatever income it has generated it will be a very long time before it starts to repay the £4million pounds spent on it or making a contribution towards the upkeep of other artefacts.

 

It has already started to repay the cost of the overhaul. Plus it has already raised considerable and much needed funds wherever it has been. So you are wrong to say that it will be a long time before it starts to do this. It has already started.

 

I would have thought that the opportunity for people all over the country to see the most famous steam locomotive in the world working near to them would have been a deal more educational to a greater number of people that any exhibit at York, which only a fraction of the people who have seen Flying Scotsman will ever see. There must be many people who have never seen a steam loco at work who have turned out to see 60103 when they wouldn't have bothered for anything else.

 

Having a famous and well known "flagship" loco out and about can only raise the profile of the museum and encourage interest in the history of our railways.

 

I am not the biggest fan of the NRM and my personal view is that some of the developments that they have planned and carried out are not what I want to see in the museum. Shifting out real and historic artifacts in exchange for interactive displays aimed at youngsters is not something I agree with. But once they had committed to getting FS running again, to have pulled out when the going got tough would have been a waste of money. Seeing it through and starting to recoup the costs was the only sensible solution.

 

I bet that even the program we are talking about here will have resulted in a bit of funding coming to the NRM. I hope one day they tell us how much of the cost they do get back.

[The Stationmaster]

It has already started to repay the cost of the overhaul. Plus it has already raised considerable and much needed funds wherever it has been. So you are wrong to say that it will be a long time before it starts to do this. It has already started.

 

I would have thought that the opportunity for people all over the country to see the most famous steam locomotive in the world working near to them would have been a deal more educational to a greater number of people that any exhibit at York, which only a fraction of the people who have seen Flying Scotsman will ever see. There must be many people who have never seen a steam loco at work who have turned out to see 60103 when they wouldn't have bothered for anything else.

 

Having a famous and well known "flagship" loco out and about can only raise the profile of the museum and encourage interest in the history of our railways.

 

I am not the biggest fan of the NRM and my personal view is that some of the developments that they have planned and carried out are not what I want to see in the museum. Shifting out real and historic artifacts in exchange for interactive displays aimed at youngsters is not something I agree with. But once they had committed to getting FS running again, to have pulled out when the going got tough would have been a waste of money. Seeing it through and starting to recoup the costs was the only sensible solution.

 

I bet that even the program we are talking about here will have resulted in a bit of funding coming to the NRM. I hope one day they tell us how much of the cost they do get back.

 

It would be interesting to know what it actually has raised in the way of funds (for the NRM).  Clearly revenue for the NRM would derive from its hire to haul mainline excursions and its hire to the leisure/private Railways (such as the SVR) - plus possibly additionally in the case of the latter a share of the ticket sales?  These would appear to be the only direct revenue streams it could generate for the NRM apart from any other hires and, of course, filming and merchandising rights.  Opposite that income side of the balance sheet there would also be the cost side - presumably a fee to Riley's for operational/engineering support together with the cost of those consumables not funded by the hiring organisation plus general 'wear and tear'.

 

The nett result will presumably make a positive financial contribution to the NRM - does it show in their/the Science Museum's accounts and if so how much is it?  Additionally, and perhaps not all easy to calculate, is what it could well do for the museum in terms of linked/themed sales and as importantly what impact it might have had on visitor numbers through making the presence of the museum better known.  So there might well be a further plus side beyond any income it actually earns in hard cash.