Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[James Makin]

2 liveries by the looks

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tunnel_one/5821014479/in/photolist-WEdff9-hLMCBm-pPwcTn-rAzeab-e1CWkT-9SodNB-nvidts-8tFriV-9Sr7c7-7PGJMR-7PL7zd-qC9th7-bf4BHF-bggWLc-qMkCWs-opLfN3-arwDG1-74R8Sq-zWq7ba-s6n7iv-bq6vAy-5ANDod-bq6t5Y-5EPF2L-8STKpm-CWUbHL-nR8zG8-6SbxWf-CWUbN5-bjrWKF-oVQGjC-aAGeBq-5AJotn-7PGJMc-7CieXE-c9q7PC-bq6uJh-dP7m1W-dGT18q-nXTUHM-5DT9yW-dRrKfE-dRm5zg-dRm75F-fwmYxu-dB6YsL-eVhwcZ-dR5r5K-oMtgau-b9xpT6/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/75784477@N08/14115029376/in/photolist-WEdff9-hLMCBm-pPwcTn-rAzeab-e1CWkT-9SodNB-nvidts-8tFriV-9Sr7c7-7PGJMR-7PL7zd-qC9th7-bf4BHF-bggWLc-qMkCWs-opLfN3-arwDG1-74R8Sq-zWq7ba-s6n7iv-bq6vAy-5ANDod-bq6t5Y-5EPF2L-8STKpm-CWUbHL-nR8zG8-6SbxWf-CWUbN5-bjrWKF-oVQGjC-aAGeBq-5AJotn-7PGJMc-7CieXE-c9q7PC-bq6uJh-dP7m1W-dGT18q-nXTUHM-5DT9yW-dRrKfE-dRm5zg-dRm75F-fwmYxu-dB6YsL-eVhwcZ-dR5r5K-oMtgau-b9xpT6/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60539035@N02/16265636142/in/photolist-WEdff9-qC9th7-bf4BHF-hLMCBm-bggWLc-qMkCWs-pPwcTn-e1CWkT-rAzeab-opLfN3-9SodNB-arwDG1-nvidts-74R8Sq-8tFriV-zWq7ba-s6n7iv-bq6vAy-9Sr7c7-5ANDod-bq6t5Y-5EPF2L-7PGJMR-8STKpm-7PL7zd-bjrWKF-CWUbHL-oVQGjC-aAGeBq-5AJotn-7PGJMc-nR8zG8-7CieXE-6SbxWf-c9q7PC-bq6uJh-dP7m1W-dGT18q-nXTUHM-5DT9yW-dRrKfE-dRm5zg-dRm75F-fwmYxu-CWUbN5-dB6YsL-eVhwcZ-dR5r5K-oMtgau-b9xpT6

I recall the Porterbrook one was originally painted with each side different, then at some point the livery got changed to make it match each side.

 

Cheers,

James

[ThaneofFife]

you had the first inter city liveried 87012 version then later the executive version with the cab window surround dark grey brought down lower and around the cab sides and across the cab front halfway up.

a couple also had red buffer beams such as 87021 robert the bruce.

not sure if they carried what was known as inter city mainline livery which I think came before the executive era.

plus a mix where they had the MU and TDM cables and sockets added/blanked over, possibly the upgrade too of the central headlight but really for the detail to be confirmed best google images of the locos as you bet its more variations than you think albeit slight.

[MGR Hooper!]

Likewise Europhoenix spot hire silver and blue as per 18 & 23, before they were sold abroad.

 

I've always been confused with the TOC "Europhoenix" I always thought it was a TOC in another country (Bulgaria) until I heard about and saw Europhoenix Class 37s.

 

So Europhoenix had Class 87s too? How long did they carry that livery and operate in the UK?

[MGR Hooper!]

I'd like to see Hornby produce a Caledonian Sleeper Class 87, but after seeing their Caledonian Sleeper Class 67 I personally think their choice of teal was disastrous. I do wonder how Hornby strives in some aspects of colour choice (eg: that beautiful shade of BR marron/red used on "Sir William Stanier FRS") and yet I wonder who in their right mind chose the shade of teal for the Caledonian Sleeper Class 67. It's nowhere near the real colour. Dapol and RevolutioN seem to have nailed it thankfully,

[adb968008]

My comparator for Hornbys class 87 just arrived.

 

It’s new in 2017, and comparable price of £150.

Powered on 8 of 12 wheels, two traction tyres, bidirectional lighting, twin metal pantograph, and all the features you’d expect from a modern AC electric (separate handrails, footsteps, screenwipers, cab windshields etc etc), plux22 decoder, weighing in at a whopping 504g and a max draw of 0.2amps\2.4watts it’s Pikos newPolish PKP ET22...

 

Can’t wait to see how it compares to the 87..

 

 

One good feature, I wish was adopted wider is serial numbers on models...

 

Every Piko loco comes with a unique serial number on the chassis, if it’s missing warranty is voided, however in addition to managing factory returns it’s useful to the end user as if should anything up towards happen your serial numbers can be passed to the police and insurance companies to aid a return. The serial numbers on the box too... no Serial Number ask questions.

(I’ve started doing this with my own locos creating my own SN and smart water).

Edited December 2, 2017 by adb968008

[298]

I've always been confused with the TOC "Europhoenix" I always thought it was a TOC in another country (Bulgaria) until I heard about and saw Europhoenix Class 37s.

 

So Europhoenix had Class 87s too? How long did they carry that livery and operate in the UK?

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_87 , it was 17 and 23 prepared for possible use in the UK but exported by about five years ago. Their only "use" in the UK was testing at Willesden depot.

[PM47079]

you had the first inter city liveried 87012 version then later the executive version with the cab window surround dark grey brought down lower and around the cab sides and across the cab front halfway up.

a couple also had red buffer beams such as 87021 robert the bruce.

not sure if they carried what was known as inter city mainline livery which I think came before the executive era.

plus a mix where they had the MU and TDM cables and sockets added/blanked over, possibly the upgrade too of the central headlight but really for the detail to be confirmed best google images of the locos as you bet its more variations than you think albeit slight.

Possibly 87031 in mainline as I am unsure if it carried any intercity branding after its repaint. 87021 while it was in virgin trains livery had an altercation with a 142 unit which resulted in a rebuild of its cab with the result it didn't have the plated over former multi working bits on the front end

[ThaneofFife]

really want

 

87006 was the "grey" one, always looked more brown to me

 

87006 London Euston 19.05.84 by Jonathan Francis, on Flickr

 

Andi

 

really hope Hornby produce this version.......I think it looks great. 

[sirwilliamfrs]

Possibly 87031 in mainline as I am unsure if it carried any intercity branding after its repaint. 87021 while it was in virgin trains livery had an altercation with a 142 unit which resulted in a rebuild of its cab with the result it didn't have the plated over former multi working bits on the front end

87027 Wolf of Badenoch was the loco involved in an accident with a Class 142 at Winsford. There are several photos on the internet of it's repair at Crewe and in service afterwards.

[298]

Rails have the new Blue 87035 in their advent calendar today for £134.50.

[Dagworth]

Rails have the new Blue 87035 in their advent calendar today for £134.50.

showing as three Bachmann Birdcage coaches for £134.50 to me

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/advent-calendar

 

The 87 is there at that price but not part of the advent calendar

https://railsofsheffield.com/class-87-87035-robert-burns-br-rail-blue-cross-arm-pantograph-2017-range--JJJA32296

 

Andi

Edited December 4, 2017 by Dagworth

[ThaneofFife]

the Bachmann 90 seems to sit lower on its bogies than this 87 appears to in side profile. 

[GordonC]

87027 Wolf of Badenoch was the loco involved in an accident with a Class 142 at Winsford. There are several photos on the internet of it's repair at Crewe and in service afterwards.

 

There was a Crewe Works Open Day during the time when it was being repaired so there will probably be lots of photos of it being repaired ... and probably all at the same point in its repair! ...

[tinsley-toton]

There was a Crewe Works Open Day during the time when it was being repaired so there will probably be lots of photos of it being repaired ... and probably all at the same point in its repair! ...

Never 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/snapper_60809/8605437841/in/photolist-ecnfWW-VCacZJ-6T3n8t-iDKLpR-ZErqYq-nHewXg-cyVhrd-RGmGDA-7hNGBc-dcoSUL-acxDch-rfEZ8U-e7r7RX-7hKpqB-iZ6nVb-b7XfrR-UmxbRG-8nxoZS-Q286Fs-bAjEwc-ec4iop-chJjTo-byk7TZ-akFF8y-w4yn4T-GygBSZ-LFao4Q-B4fX7Q-BJ3MC9-A8qipw-DB9un3-B55DoB

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37190-dalzell/16574956606/in/photolist-ecnfWW-VCacZJ-6T3n8t-iDKLpR-ZErqYq-nHewXg-cyVhrd-RGmGDA-7hNGBc-dcoSUL-acxDch-rfEZ8U-e7r7RX-7hKpqB-iZ6nVb-b7XfrR-UmxbRG-8nxoZS-Q286Fs-bAjEwc-ec4iop-chJjTo-byk7TZ-akFF8y-w4yn4T-GygBSZ-LFao4Q-B4fX7Q-BJ3MC9-A8qipw-DB9un3-B55DoB

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisbell50000/4838269628/in/photolist-ecnfWW-VCacZJ-6T3n8t-iDKLpR-ZErqYq-nHewXg-cyVhrd-RGmGDA-7hNGBc-dcoSUL-acxDch-rfEZ8U-e7r7RX-7hKpqB-iZ6nVb-b7XfrR-UmxbRG-8nxoZS-Q286Fs-bAjEwc-ec4iop-chJjTo-byk7TZ-akFF8y-w4yn4T-GygBSZ-LFao4Q-B4fX7Q-BJ3MC9-A8qipw-DB9un3-B55DoB

[ThaneofFife]

It would be interesting to know how this project came to fruition, how the decision came about by Hornby to hit the "go ahead" button with the Class 87.

 

Oh to be a fly on the wall in the Hornby decision making room...........was it based on a collective of polls amongst the staff?   internet polls?  staff feedback on forums such as this?   Did Hornby have doubts due to some suggesting "electrics dont sell"?, do Hornby just make their own decision by looking at their current offerings and those of its competitors unfluenced by any calls by modellers whatsoever or does it consider the age of the tooling ie; the Limby tooled model may have had a refresh but was basically a design dating back about 35-40 years? 

Did Hornby have a selection of potential models they could have announced from which they picked out the 87 as their choice that particular year?   If so it would be very interesting to know what else was on the drawing board alongside the 87.

 

Does the planning go way beyond designing and producing the 87 - are they looking at it and thinking if this flies off the shelves we will bring out another AC loco Class eighty xxx ?

Hornby could have gone for the 86 which they had in their back catalogue long before they took the Lima 87 under their wings so it appears it took priority.

 

Somebody Hornby said right this is the model we are doing.   What was the decider.............maybe all rhetorical questions but everyone will have their own views right or totally wrong.

[frobisher]

I think the simple decision train was...

 

We should do an AC electric to modern standards

Heljan have done an 86 recently which we could improve but might dilute the market

Bachmann have done an 85 and are doing a 90

 

Leaves 81-84, 87, 89, 91

 

91 requires retooling the MK4 coaches as well, 89 is a one off, 82-84 have both have a restricted length of service, liveries and numbers

 

So 81 (limited variants but reasonably numerous) or 87 (lots of liveries, long service...)

 

87 it is...

[GordonC]

I think the simple decision train was...

 

We should do an AC electric to modern standards

Heljan have done an 86 recently which we could improve but might dilute the market

Bachmann have done an 85 and are doing a 90

 

Leaves 81-84, 87, 89, 91

 

91 requires retooling the MK4 coaches as well, 89 is a one off, 82-84 have both have a restricted length of service, liveries and numbers

 

So 81 (limited variants but reasonably numerous) or 87 (lots of liveries, long service...)

 

87 it is...

 

An Engine Shed update said that the choice was between 87 and 91 ... so hopefully a 91 comes along sooner rather than later too

[No Decorum]

I think the simple decision train was...

 

We should do an AC electric to modern standards

Heljan have done an 86 recently which we could improve but might dilute the market

Bachmann have done an 85 and are doing a 90

 

Leaves 81-84, 87, 89, 91

 

91 requires retooling the MK4 coaches as well, 89 is a one off, 82-84 have both have a restricted length of service, liveries and numbers

 

So 81 (limited variants but reasonably numerous) or 87 (lots of liveries, long service...)

 

87 it is...

A good analysis and probably as close as we’ll get to what happened. I’d add that Hornby has a tendency to think in themes and this time it was West Coast. Duchesses and 87s.

[wombatofludham]

I really, really don't know why people keep referring to the Heljan 86 as being a bed-blocker to a new model. It is no longer available. It is dead. It has ceased to be. More to the point, it was only released in a very narrow range of versions so the market for the original build AL6 (86/0), 86/1, 86/2 (pre refurbishment) 86/3 or 86/4 isn't being diluted by the fairydust-available Heljan 86 because they never made them.

 

Clever tooling design could keep the basic tooling kit busy with a range of versions which, in a market slowly awakening to the Joy of Knitting could be a steady seller. Put it this way, I have three IC Swallow Danish 86's, two Banger Blue conversions and even an early AL6 conversion from the Heljan loco and I would buy many, many more of a new model 86 if the model was good enough in early condition, banger blue, Executive, RES, Frightliner grey, all liveries that the Danes ignored.

 

It's about time we just brushed the Heljan model under the carpet as it's about as likely to re-emerge on the market as I am likely to build a GWR branchline terminus layout.

[MGR Hooper!]

I really, really don't know why people keep referring to the Heljan 86 as being a bed-blocker to a new model. It is no longer available. It is dead. It has ceased to be. More to the point, it was only released in a very narrow range of versions so the market for the original build AL6 (86/0), 86/1, 86/2 (pre refurbishment) 86/3 or 86/4 isn't being diluted by the fairydust-available Heljan 86 because they never made them.

 

Clever tooling design could keep the basic tooling kit busy with a range of versions which, in a market slowly awakening to the Joy of Knitting could be a steady seller. Put it this way, I have three IC Swallow Danish 86's, two Banger Blue conversions and even an early AL6 conversion from the Heljan loco and I would buy many, many more of a new model 86 if the model was good enough in early condition, banger blue, Executive, RES, Frightliner grey, all liveries that the Danes ignored.

 

It's about time we just brushed the Heljan model under the carpet as it's about as likely to re-emerge on the market as I am likely to build a GWR branchline terminus layout.

Heljan have on multiple occasions that they will no longer produce the Class 86. I think they have realized that they made a mess of it and they probably don't want to spend any more money on re-tooling. They seem to be really interested in O gauge at the moment.

[frobisher]

I really, really don't know why people keep referring to the Heljan 86 as being a bed-blocker to a new model. It is no longer available.

It has somewhat soiled the bed though, and expectations of a new 86 are going to be absurdly high. Better to do the 87 (which has less variants to cover) first knowing that an awful lot of the CAD work can be repurposed as a basis for the 86 which then builds on the (hopeful) success of the 87.

 

It's about time we just brushed the Heljan model under the carpet as it's about as likely to re-emerge on the market as I am likely to build a GWR branchline terminus layout.

Thing is, if Hornby had announced an 86, you could bet your bottom dollar that the Danes would have pushed out another production run just like they did with the 47 when Bachmann and Vitrains announced theirs.

Edited December 21, 2017 by frobisher

[ThaneofFife]

such a waste of the Heljan chassis which was superb bar droopy couplings.

[Marcyg]

Not sure how another 86 would dilute the market, can't get them for love nor money as th e chassis was good on the Heljan one

Edited December 21, 2017 by Marcyg

[Andy Mac]

Remember about a year ago when DJM Dave was going to do a class 86 crowd funding project... he pulled out when he found out two other manufacturers were already pursuing the 86.... I reckon we’ll get an announcement, perhaps in the new year of a new 86 model from someone...

[MGR Hooper!]

Remember about a year ago when DJM Dave was going to do a class 86 crowd funding project... he pulled out when he found out two other manufacturers were already pursuing the 86.... I reckon we’ll get an announcement, perhaps in the new year of a new 86 model from someone...

Hmmmm... Hornby, Accurascale, OxfordRail, Dapol, Rapido or some retailer?