Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[No Decorum]

The 87 should be benchmarked against Hornby’s other investments.. the Duchess and the SECR H, both of which are sold out before delivery.

 

The 87 is available to pre-order everywhere, including Hornby’s website. It is not obvious to see it sold out any where.

It wasn’t easy to get a Wainwright H in SECR livery, granted. However, I had no trouble pre-ordering one in Southern green and that’s due sooner than the 87, I think. I had decided not to bother with a Duchess but I changed my mind and had no trouble getting Sir William after they had appeared, and Sir William seems to be selling faster than Atholl.

 

In contrast, we have only seen fully dolled up models of the 87s very recently. Enthusiasm will build as release comes closer. I’m sure of it, even if it is only a gut feeling.

[Jim76]

Would definitely be interested in an 86 (the Heljan example didn't do it for me). The 87 and Bachmann 90 will be a given. As for EMUs Class 303, 304, 309 and 310 would be welcome. Many liveries to choose from on all of the above.

[Mike at C&M]

https://www.facebook.com/pg/officialhornby/posts/?ref=page_internal 

 

Video posted of the decorated BR Blue 87.035 on Hornby's Facebook page.

[No Decorum]

https://www.facebook.com/pg/officialhornby/posts/?ref=page_internal 

 

Video posted of the decorated BR Blue 87.035 on Hornby's Facebook page.

Also (helpfully) on YouTube. It doesn’t move! Other than that, not bad. I think I shall have one.

[adb968008]

Maybe too trivial, but modern nameplates are a steel or aluminium ?

Wouldn’t the letters and frame be more silver, less white in appearance ?

 

Otherwise I think this is great model.

Edited October 31, 2017 by adb968008

[No Decorum]

Maybe too trivial, but modern nameplates are a steel or aluminium ?

Wouldn’t the letters and frame be more silver, less white in appearance ?

 

Otherwise I think this is great model.

Not at all trivial but at least fixable. Nameplates are not Hornby’s strong point but at least the claims that plastic lumps are etched seem to have stopped.

[wombatofludham]

"Dear Hornby,

 

Thank you for posting your video of the new Class 87 model.  I have one question.  To whom do I send the bill for the new underwear I've just had to order after watching it?

 

Yours,

A rather damp Wombat."

 

Can't wait to get a few, some sound chips to replicate their distinctive whine, and renumber and rename a couple with proper etched plates, perhaps add a bit of weathering.  Trouble is it'll put the finishing of the layout to run them on back a few months as I'll have no money left for silly things like track or ballast.  Ho hum.

[MGR Hooper!]

"Dear Hornby,

 

Thank you for posting your video of the new Class 87 model.  I have one question.  To whom do I send the bill for the new underwear I've just had to order after watching it?

 

Yours,

A rather damp Wombat."

 

Can't wait to get a few, some sound chips to replicate their distinctive whine, and renumber and rename a couple with proper etched plates, perhaps add a bit of weathering.  Trouble is it'll put the finishing of the layout to run them on back a few months as I'll have no money left for silly things like track or ballast.  Ho hum.

Jockey? Pampers? Or a brand new line of Hornby underwear?

 

On a more serious note....I can't wait for these Class 87s

[ThaneofFife]

I fear that my Class 87 models may try to sue me in 25-30 years time for inappropriate touching.........

[letterspider]

that's absolutely fine Peter but I would say its only a limited few who have non exhibition layouts who have (or plan to have) working OHLE and will enjoy their new Class 87 no matter what, whether the pan is plastic/metal or working/non-working but you enjoy your new model anyway you can,  I say - never the twain need meet!

 

Bravo !..........

 

The different approaches of Heljan, Bachmann, DJM and Hornby seem to suggest that each manufacturer has differing ideas about the future of OHLE in OO gauge.

I would be interested to see what Dapol would do if they produced a DRS Class 88 as they would then be offering solutions on both sides of the wire so to speak - Dapol in N gauge have also shown themselves to be willing to sell pantographs as spares.

 

Perhaps we should move on from discussions about the Hornby pantograph on the 87 and talk to the manufacturers about what we would want to see, and be willing to pay for, on the 88 and 86?

[adb968008]

I wonder how much of this "electrics don't sell well" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If us, "the converted", feel that the 87 might not sell quickly then some will be tempted to hold off and wait for the "bargain basement" prices, saving some cash on this particular model, but hurting our own chances of further models we might desire down the line.

 

I'm jumping in with both feet, no waiting.

Not sure it’ll make much difference,

If you step back and look at the market, since Brexit :

 

1. the number of new announcements has massively decreased across all manufacturers, Heljan has no new announcements in OO for over a year, Bachmann has reduced considerably their output. Hornby’s 2017 range is less than they planned. New players have plugged the gap, but there models are passing through the funnel thick and very fast... months not years in the case of Barclays and Ps.

 

2. Production bottlenecks have cleared, the 3-5 year waits have cleared in 1 year.. D600, 102xx, 1360s, gate stock, 121,71 and almost all Hornby’s 2017 range has arrived in the last 12 months, and 2016’s cleared out, Oxfords managed to introduce much in a very short time. Bachman is the exception here, it all feels very quiet there, I have to assume their focus is not on this island right now.

 

3. Costs have risen, Prices have risen, new entrants with low cost bases have challenged the margins of the established.

 

To me this is a warning sign, if China is turning over faster, because new designs are slowing down, then there’s over capacity in the production line. Weve never had it so good, and I think the view looks great right now because are seeing the top end of the bubble on our shelves in the last few weeks.. when it comes to new models Christmas has definitely come early on the high street.. I’ve had boxes come every day the last few weeks.

 

By year end there won’t be much pre2016 left to deliver, and in most cases all 2017’s stuff will be here too, even Hattons new announcements a few months back are only months from delivery.

 

The hints from the magazines suggest a rather muted or subdued Warley is coming this year and not to get expectations of the tens of new announcements we have become accustomed to... Chinese factories may go hungry or hunt in pastures a fresh in 2018 just as they are sitting down proud of how much they achieved and await the next set of comissions.

 

This reminds me of European airlines in 2005-9.

We had lots of cheap fares, the range and variety of flights was unseen of, it was cheaper to buy the airfare ticket than the taxi to the airport, people flew every weekend, indeed a New York weekender was possible for the price of today’s Hornby Duchess, BMI acquired Bmed and in the quest for more exotic destinations even promoted Aleppo as a tourist destination ! Supply of new aircraft for the market was plentiful. All subsidised by investors, shareholders and venture capitalists.

 

But Then fuel costs rose, the economy shrank, the pound fell.

In the next few months we lost or merged many names, not just budget airlines either..Bmi, maxjet, Caledonian included.

 

Since then the market has shrunk, some bigger name players have emerged and those prices are long gone.

Shareholders are getting dividends not subsidies and it’s healthy for the airlines, but the New York, even the European weekender is now dead, forget the exotic and off grid destinations..even Blackpool,airport didn’t survive.

The difference here, is if our hobby is about to burst, supply will increase not decline.. if people call quits and say i’m not buying my 5-10 models this year, they end up dumping their collections on ebay, sell up to do something else. That will continue to hurt manufacturers for years to come, and in the past the way to break that has usually been terminal for the company, followed by drought then resurrection under a new name years later.

 

The OO gauge market maybe close to leaner more expensive times, but not before we see some fireworks and implosions.

Edited November 1, 2017 by adb968008

[letterspider]

Not sure it’ll make much difference,

If you step back and look at the market, since Brexit :

 

1. the number of new announcements has massively decreased across all manufacturers, Heljan has no new announcements in OO for over a year, Bachmann has reduced considerably their output. Hornby’s 2017 range is less than they planned. New players have plugged the gap, but there models are passing through the funnel thick and very fast... months not years in the case of Barclays and Ps.

 

2. Production bottlenecks have cleared, the 3-5 year waits have cleared in 1 year.. D600, 102xx, 1360s, gate stock, 121,71 and almost all Hornby’s 2017 range has arrived in the last 12 months, and 2016’s cleared out, Oxfords managed to introduce much in a very short time. Bachman is the exception here, it all feels very quiet there, I have to assume their focus is not on this island right now.

 

3. Costs have risen, Prices have risen, new entrants with low cost bases have challenged the margins of the established.

 

To me this is a warning sign, if China is turning over faster, because new designs are slowing down, then there’s over capacity in the production line. Weve never had it so good, and I think the view looks great right now because are seeing the top end of the bubble on our shelves in the last few weeks.. when it comes to new models Christmas has definitely come early on the high street.. I’ve had boxes come every day the last few weeks.

 

By year end there won’t be much pre2016 left to deliver, and in most cases all 2017’s stuff will be here too, even Hattons new announcements a few months back are only months from delivery.

 

The hints from the magazines suggest a rather muted or subdued Warley is coming this year and not to get expectations of the tens of new announcements we have become accustomed to... Chinese factories may go hungry or hunt in pastures a fresh in 2018 just as they are sitting down proud of how much they achieved and await the next set of comissions.

 

This reminds me of European airlines in 2005-9.

We had lots of cheap fares, the range and variety of flights was unseen of, it was cheaper to buy the airfare ticket than the taxi to the airport, people flew every weekend, indeed a New York weekender was possible for the price of today’s Hornby Duchess, Supply of new aircraft for the market was plentiful. All subsidised by investors, shareholders and venture capitalists.

 

But Then fuel costs rose, the economy shrank, the pound fell.

In the next few months we lost or merged many names, not just budget airlines either..Bmi, maxjet, Caledonian included.

 

Since then the market has shrunk, some bigger name players have emerged and those prices are long gone.

Shareholders are getting dividends not subsidies and it’s healthy for the airlines, but the New York, even the European weekender is now dead.

The difference here, is if our hobby is about to burst, supply will increase not decline.. if people call quits and say i’m not buying my 5-10 models this year, they end up dumping their collections on ebay, sell up to do something else. That will continue to hurt manufacturers for years to come, and in the past the way to break that has usually been terminal for the company, followed by drought then resurrection under a new name years later.

 

It's always dangerous to draw parallels.

I would think that the biggest cost in flying a plane is in maintaining an aging and disparate fleet with obsolete components and without engineers available with the required experience. Ryanair, like EWS have done with the 66, have only bought the 737 to simplify everything. Probably they have purchased directly from Boeing as well without going through the finance houses. Ryanair for example does not have to suffer the expense of the training of airline pilots in house - and we recently saw how they were caught out.

 

In addition if you look at the cost break down of your ticket, you will see most of it goes in various taxes and landing fees. The cost of fuel per person is just a few quid. Our expectations from the airline carriers has changed and we are happy to forego reclining seats, in flight meals and drinks (but not free toilets!)

 

Similarly for the established model manufacturers, fabricating models using older tooling techniques and paying to keep designers 'on team' is expensive. The biggest expense is from design to manufacture and 3D printing is evolving precisely to deal with that problem. The demand for ever finer detail can only be good news, not bad news for train modellers, in particular for all the lineside detailing which is a massive expense in itself.

 

The problems at the moment is not the level of detailing but in scaling up 3D printing technology to industrial levels - and of course who owns the intellectual property and how much they are willing to charge to release it.

[Roy Langridge]

Perhaps the slow down in announcements is actually a learning process whereby manufacturers are getting models better developed before announcing. That would lead to an apparent pause even if progress is being made.

 

Roy

[cravensdmufan]

Both pre production liveried 87s looking good on the Hornby stand at Warley today - but neither with a pantograph.

 

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to ask Paul for an update on the current status of the pantographs, Did anyone else make enquires?

[ThaneofFife]

how does the rake of the cab windows look from the side profile?  I recall major grumbling about the rake being far too high on the Heljan 86 shortly after it was released. 

 

From some angles on the painted blue sample 87 model they look fine from 3/4 view but the early renderings, the rake does appear to go back quite a bit but its really not easy to be able to tell.  maybe its exaggerated in a photo by a slightly curve to the cab nose. 

[Dagworth]

Both pre production liveried 87s looking good on the Hornby stand at Warley today - but neither with a pantograph.

 

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to ask Paul for an update on the current status of the pantographs, Did anyone else make enquires?

the blue one had a pan

 

Andi

[Dixie Dean]

Would someone with more knowledge than me like to list the potential UK liveries that the locomotive could carry (excluding any carried abroad)?

[MGR Hooper!]

Would someone with more knowledge than me like to list the potential UK liveries that the locomotive could carry (excluding any carried abroad)?

Could as in what it can in future or did you mean would as in what it has carried since it's introduction into BR?

 

I ask because I was going to ask about all the liveries it did carry. Off the top of my head I can recall:-

• BR Blue
• BR Grey Large Logo (experimental??)
• BR Intercity (with the wrap-around warning panel)
• BR Intercity Swallow
• NSE
• Virgin Trains
• Railfreight Distribution
• Cotswold Rail
• Porterbrook (2 liveries??)
• GBRf
• GBRf Black (special ACORP livery??)
• DRS
• Europhoenix
• Serco Caledonian Sleeper

Edited March 28, 2018 by MGR Hooper!

[DY444]

 

Could as in what it can in future or did you mean would as in what it has carried since it's introduction into BR?

 

I ask because I was going to ask about all the liveries it did carry. Off the top of my head I can recall:-

• BR Blue
• BR Grey Large Logo (experimental??)
• BR Intercity (with the wrap-around warning panel)
• BR Intercity Swallow
• NSE
• Virgin Trains
• Railfreight Distribution
• Cotswold Rail
• Porterbrook (2 liveries??)
• GBRf
• Serco Caledonian Sleeper

 

 

87019 carried a black livery at some point iirc

[Dagworth]

 

Could as in what it can in future or did you mean would as in what it has carried since it's introduction into BR?

 

I ask because I was going to ask about all the liveries it did carry. Off the top of my head I can recall:-

• BR Blue
• BR Grey Large Logo (experimental??)
• BR Intercity (with the wrap-around warning panel)
• BR Intercity Swallow
• NSE
• Virgin Trains
• Railfreight Distribution
• Cotswold Rail
• Porterbrook (2 liveries??)
• GBRf
• Serco Caledonian Sleeper

 

87006 was the "grey" one, always looked more brown to me

 

87006 London Euston 19.05.84 by Jonathan Francis, on Flickr

 

Andi

[newbryford]

 

Could as in what it can in future or did you mean would as in what it has carried since it's introduction into BR?

 

I ask because I was going to ask about all the liveries it did carry. Off the top of my head I can recall:-

• BR Blue
• BR Grey Large Logo (experimental??)
• BR Intercity (with the wrap-around warning panel)
• BR Intercity Swallow
• NSE
• Virgin Trains
• Railfreight Distribution
• Cotswold Rail
• Porterbrook (2 liveries??)
• GBRf
• Serco Caledonian Sleeper

 

 

DRS blue.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[298]

LNWR black.

 

Variations of DRS blue when under GBRf control (depending on how much paint was spare at Willesden).

As above, with extra WN shed stickers.

 

Unbranded Virgin.

 

There is the Bulgarian green/yellow of course, do these count as the locos were tested at CS under the wires? Likewise Europhoenix spot hire silver and blue as per 18 & 23, before they were sold abroad.

[GordonC]

was Porterbrook 2 liveries or not just alternative sides on the same loco?

[tinsley-toton]

was Porterbrook 2 liveries or not just alternative sides on the same loco?

2 liveries by the looks

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tunnel_one/5821014479/in/photolist-WEdff9-hLMCBm-pPwcTn-rAzeab-e1CWkT-9SodNB-nvidts-8tFriV-9Sr7c7-7PGJMR-7PL7zd-qC9th7-bf4BHF-bggWLc-qMkCWs-opLfN3-arwDG1-74R8Sq-zWq7ba-s6n7iv-bq6vAy-5ANDod-bq6t5Y-5EPF2L-8STKpm-CWUbHL-nR8zG8-6SbxWf-CWUbN5-bjrWKF-oVQGjC-aAGeBq-5AJotn-7PGJMc-7CieXE-c9q7PC-bq6uJh-dP7m1W-dGT18q-nXTUHM-5DT9yW-dRrKfE-dRm5zg-dRm75F-fwmYxu-dB6YsL-eVhwcZ-dR5r5K-oMtgau-b9xpT6/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/75784477@N08/14115029376/in/photolist-WEdff9-hLMCBm-pPwcTn-rAzeab-e1CWkT-9SodNB-nvidts-8tFriV-9Sr7c7-7PGJMR-7PL7zd-qC9th7-bf4BHF-bggWLc-qMkCWs-opLfN3-arwDG1-74R8Sq-zWq7ba-s6n7iv-bq6vAy-5ANDod-bq6t5Y-5EPF2L-8STKpm-CWUbHL-nR8zG8-6SbxWf-CWUbN5-bjrWKF-oVQGjC-aAGeBq-5AJotn-7PGJMc-7CieXE-c9q7PC-bq6uJh-dP7m1W-dGT18q-nXTUHM-5DT9yW-dRrKfE-dRm5zg-dRm75F-fwmYxu-dB6YsL-eVhwcZ-dR5r5K-oMtgau-b9xpT6/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60539035@N02/16265636142/in/photolist-WEdff9-qC9th7-bf4BHF-hLMCBm-bggWLc-qMkCWs-pPwcTn-e1CWkT-rAzeab-opLfN3-9SodNB-arwDG1-nvidts-74R8Sq-8tFriV-zWq7ba-s6n7iv-bq6vAy-9Sr7c7-5ANDod-bq6t5Y-5EPF2L-7PGJMR-8STKpm-7PL7zd-bjrWKF-CWUbHL-oVQGjC-aAGeBq-5AJotn-7PGJMc-nR8zG8-7CieXE-6SbxWf-c9q7PC-bq6uJh-dP7m1W-dGT18q-nXTUHM-5DT9yW-dRrKfE-dRm5zg-dRm75F-fwmYxu-CWUbN5-dB6YsL-eVhwcZ-dR5r5K-oMtgau-b9xpT6

Edited November 30, 2017 by tinsley-toton

[stovepipe]

There were variations within BR Blue also

 

- originally 4 cabside numbers and BR arrows on central bodyside,

https://flic.kr/p/r4EaKd

 

followed by

- 2 cabside numbers on opposite corners and BR arrows on central bodyside

https://flic.kr/p/dwTryi

 

followed by

- 2 cabside numbers and BR arrows on opposite corners, nameplate central bodyside

 

Hornby is doing the last version.