Oxford N7

[Edwardian]

The evidence seems to suggest otherwise!

[locoholic]

 

The evidence seems to suggest otherwise!

 

As I said...

[Edwardian]

As I said...

 

I suspect you are perceiving slights where none was given or intended.

 

Best wishes

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I also understand that L1 were not popular on the Liverpool St to Chingford/Enfield services as they were a tight fit in the run round loops and their high bunkers made coaling difficult at Wood St & Enfield...

 There is a very good memoir by an engineman named Albert Grose (I think that is the correct spelling), who spent most of his short career with BR at Hertford East. He was both a keen technical observer of the steam loco, and had kept notes which he wrote up very well.

 

The two points above were mentioned, but what comes over very clearly in his N7 to L1 comparison is that 'the good stuff' from the L1: more power, greater boiler reserve, higner speed; came at a price in greater workload for the fireman, as the fire needed to be kept 'just so' for free steaming, thick under the firehole, thin toward the front. He didn't see an L1 until the late 1950s, and so benefitted from experience with the class gained by those who had them from introduction into service.

 

The N7 was lighter on coal (of course, much less power) but also very tolerant in fire management, even permitting the notorious 'boxing up' often employed for the final trip of the turn. (Shovel in a very large quantity, shut the firehole door for the entire stage, and who cares about the smoke, and the state of the fire on leaving the engine.)

 

As for the speed which the L1's power output made possible, there was no trouble achieving an indicated 75mph. However, unless the L1 was recently ex-works it somewhat depended on how brave the driver felt about working up a loco making such dreadful sounds of mechanical disarray into any sort of speed.

[The Johnster]

It is true that a smaller loco will be lighter on coal and easier on the fireman's back than a bigger one, but only if all other things are equal, which they never are.  The smaller engine will break the fireman's back, and his heart, if it is overloaded and has to be thrashed to do the work that the bigger one can do on half the throttle setting at a higher cutoff.

 

Does anyone know if the N7's chassis might be suitable for putting underneath any of the South Wales absorbed and constituent 0-6-2 engines, maybe some of the TVR 'O' or 'U' series?  O4s lasted into the 50s; AFAIK the Rhymney locos had generally longer wheelbases and are probably not suitable.

[Roy Langridge]

It is true that a smaller loco will be lighter on coal and easier on the fireman's back than a bigger one, but only if all other things are equal, which they never are. The smaller engine will break the fireman's back, and his heart, if it is overloaded and has to be thrashed to do the work that the bigger one can do on half the throttle setting at a higher cutoff.

 

Does anyone know if the N7's chassis might be suitable for putting underneath any of the South Wales absorbed and constituent 0-6-2 engines, maybe some of the TVR 'O' or 'U' series? O4s lasted into the 50s; AFAIK the Rhymney locos had generally longer wheelbases and are probably not suitable.

Indeed, and with a small firebox you can be constantly firing whereas with a bigger ‘box you can build up a good fire and then fire more occasionally, having a break between.

 

Further, the coal plate on many small engines was on the floor, making the work harder than a loco with the coaling plate and firehole door at similar levels.

 

Roy

[Steamport Southport]

I've not come across the other book. But this one is essential if you have any interest in GER locomotives.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buckjumpers-Gobblers-Clauds-Lifetime-Footplates/dp/0851533965

 

 

I believe all the GER suburban passenger tanks were consumption heavy with the constant stop/starts. Any sensible railway would have electrified it well before they eventually did.

 

 

 

Jason

[Bucoops]

I've not come across the other book. But this one is essential if you have any interest in GER locomotives.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buckjumpers-Gobblers-Clauds-Lifetime-Footplates/dp/0851533965

 

 

I believe all the GER suburban passenger tanks were consumption heavy with the constant stop/starts. Any sensible railway would have electrified it well before they eventually did.

 

 

 

Jason

 

From what I understand (and I could be wrong - frequently am!) they looked at the available technology for electric traction and it wouldn't have been sufficient for what the N7s were capable of and the required service. Then when it WAS capable they started the process but WW2 got in the way.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Bucoops

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The unfortunate near permanent brokeness of the GER, ruled out any possibility of the investment required for electrification. Much of the line infrastructure was lightweight, which set a low limit on locomotive axle loads, until BR was able to throw the nation's money at upgrading it.

 

 

...Does anyone know if the N7's chassis might be suitable for putting underneath any of the South Wales absorbed and constituent 0-6-2 engines...

 Not a clue, but the N7 wheelbase was 7'6"+8'9"+6'9"; diameters, coupled 4'10", trailing 3'9".

[Bucoops]

The unfortunate near permanent brokeness of the GER, ruled out any possibility of the investment required for electrification. Much of the line infrastructure was lightweight, which set a low limit on locomotive axle loads, until BR was able to throw the nation's money at upgrading it.

 

 

 Not a clue, but the N7 wheelbase was 7'6"+8'9"+6'9"; diameters, coupled 4'10", trailing 3'9".

 

Electrification work was definitely started by the LNER pre-WW2. But yes the GER was always going to struggle to make it happen.

[Bucoops]

I don't know if it was ever signed (It's dated a month before the outbreak of WW2) but they were obviously ready - http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/LNER_GEElectrificationContract1939.pdf

[Woodcock29]

Hi Everyone

 

Generally this looks to be a nice model. I note however that the flowerpot chimney on the BR version appears to be too tall. Possibly also the dome but running callipers over a model in the flesh in due course will confirm this one way or the other. According to RCTS the flowerpot chimney should be 1'6".

 

Someone mentioned the difficulty in telling if black LNER locos are lined in red in B&W photos. The easiest way is to look at the front buffer beam (assuming you can see it)and see if it has the white/black lining around the edge - if so it is lined in red. I believe the LNER model to be produced by Oxford should be lined in red. Yeadon certainly says they were all lined in LNER days until 1941.

 

Andrew

Edited May 18, 2018 by Woodcock29

[The Stationmaster]

 

 

 Not a clue, but the N7 wheelbase was 7'6"+8'9"+6'9"; diameters, coupled 4'10", trailing 3'9".

 

The dimensions don't match those of the late Rhymney large 0-6-2Ts although they aren't all that far out, I haven't checked the Taff Vale engines.

[Norton Wood]

 

 

Was looking through the Yeadons N7 Book and found another GER Livery that Oxford could do which as the caption reads, ' The first of the 1921 batch was given the same painting as the two built-in 1915, and only these three carried GER. All were painted unlined grey and had a large brass numberplate'. 

 

Funny enough this is 1002 the loco being modeled by Oxford Rail.

[Pint of Adnams]

The unfortunate near permanent brokeness of the GER, ruled out any possibility of the investment required for electrification. Much of the line infrastructure was lightweight, which set a low limit on locomotive axle loads, until BR was able to throw the nation's money at upgrading it.

 

 

 Not a clue, but the N7 wheelbase was 7'6"+8'9"+6'9"; diameters, coupled 4'10", trailing 3'9".

It wasn't necessarily the parlous state of the GER's finances, which did improve at certain times, but the fact that the construction of Liverpool Street station required the demolition of substantial poor quality housing that resulted in Parliament imposing ridiculously cheap fares from the suburbs that were paid by those much better off than the displaced population. In other words Parliament ensured that it could never be financially viable. Plus ca change...

 

The trailing wheels were 3' 6" dia. on the original build N7/2 and N7/3, whilst the length over buffers varied between 34' 10" and 35' 3" - see the 'Greenie' part 9A.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Pint of Adnams

[adb968008]

It wasn't necessarily the parlous state of the GER's finances, which did improve at certain times, but the fact that the construction of Liverpool Street station required the demolition of substantial poor quality housing that resulted in Parliament imposing ridiculously cheap fares from the suburbs that were paid by those much better off than the displaced population. In other words Parliament ensured that it could never be financially viable. Plus ca change...

 

The trailing wheels were 3' 6" dia. on the original build N7/2 and N7/3, whilst the length over buffers varied between 34' 10" and 35' 3" - see the 'Greenie' part 9A.

Not much changes, remember C2C.. it wasn’t called Chav 2 City for nothing.

 

I’ve also heard its passengers as generally being “one stop past Dagenham” a few times.

Edited May 21, 2018 by adb968008

[PhilJ W]

Not much changes, remember C2C.. it wasn’t called Chav 2 City for nothing.

 

I’ve also heard its passengers as generally being “one stop past Dagenham” a few times.

C2C is the old London Tilbury & Southend Railway which was taken over by the Midland in 1912 and was never part of the GER.

[railroadbill]

I've not come across the other book. But this one is essential if you have any interest in GER locomotives.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buckjumpers-Gobblers-Clauds-Lifetime-Footplates/dp/0851533965

 

 

I believe all the GER suburban passenger tanks were consumption heavy with the constant stop/starts. Any sensible railway would have electrified it well before they eventually did.

 

 

 

Jason

Excellent book, just re-read it having seen this post.  Interesting accounts of author Jim Hill's career and what it was like working on the railway as much as the types of locos. His stories of serving with the ROD in France during the first world war driving Dutch and Belgian locos as well as Dean goods are worth reading.

[The Johnster]

The dimensions don't match those of the late Rhymney large 0-6-2Ts although they aren't all that far out, I haven't checked the Taff Vale engines.

 

Thanks Mike.  That will rule it out for most of the Taff Vale's 0-6-2Ts which had shorter wheelbases than the Rhymney Stephensons, engines similar to which appeared on the N & B and B & M.  The dimensions of these locos are very close to the 56xx and Cardiff Railway Kitson 0-6-2s.  But the new N7 will be a bit of a temptation as a donor to complete my old Cotswold 'R' kit!

 

Discipline, Johnster, discipline; you have to finish your collection of BR period Tondu locos before you start messing around with the Rhymney or the Taff Vale.  But 426, a B & M Stephenson never rebuilt by the GW, lasted until March 1950 at Llantrisant, and I could probably make an excuse for that...

[Norton Wood]

Thanks Mike.  That will rule it out for most of the Taff Vale's 0-6-2Ts which had shorter wheelbases than the Rhymney Stephensons, engines similar to which appeared on the N & B and B & M.  The dimensions of these locos are very close to the 56xx and Cardiff Railway Kitson 0-6-2s.  But the new N7 will be a bit of a temptation as a donor to complete my old Cotswold 'R' kit!

 

Discipline, Johnster, discipline; you have to finish your collection of BR period Tondu locos before you start messing around with the Rhymney or the Taff Vale.  But 426, a B & M Stephenson never rebuilt by the GW, lasted until March 1950 at Llantrisant, and I could probably make an excuse for that...

 

I'm not a Great Western Fan myself but I hope it serves well...

 

As for myself and I look forward to getting it onto my layout:

 

 

 

 

[Norton Wood]

It'll certainly look right at home!

Alex

 

Certainly does, I have to say it's taken a while to build but I have a plan to build a bigger layout using this idea. In addition, every update on this page is great news...Now it's just waiting for the models to go into production and then getting them here to the UK...

Edited May 25, 2018 by Norton Wood

[Garethp8873]

More photos posted today of the N7 samples on Hattons...

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/NewsDetail.aspx?id=248

 

Images owned by Hattons

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Garethp8873

[Bucoops]

I'm not normally bothered by tensionlock but those front ones do look very silly

[JhornG201]

What stands out with the BR version is that the smokebox numbers are printed on the door rather than on a ‘plate’

[Joseph_Pestell]

Surely they could have done better than that with the front coupling. Hopefully corrected before production.

 

Had not realised we were getting the round-top ones just yet.