Dapol deferments - Class 50, Class 59, prototype HST, Battle of Britain - due to Brexit increasing tooling and production costs

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Dapol really losing the plot with this choice or N Gauge in serious trouble.

 Dapol's statement clearly explains the situation:

 

"in N gauge where the small size of the market, the relatively high cost of manufacture and natural cap on retail prices means that returns are least favourable."

 

What was sustainable in better financial times, is getting squeezed out by the present cost pressures.

[Loconuts]

I think Dapol are signalling that they have no interest in `n gauge. the model that were very close to production are still going to build but after that I doubt that we will see any more models from Dapol in n gauge.

 

My point exactly, there is little profit in 'N'

 

Loconuts

[Mr chapman]

I doubt very much that Dapol will totally withdraw from N. Even if they stop any new tooling we'll still get rerun's from time to time. I see a lot of talk about how the market has changed, the manufacturers have changed. But the fact is the modeller has changed just as much! Skip back to Graham Farish 2000, the rebuilt merchant navy arrives at the same time as Hornby's 00 version. It's welcomed with open arms. With an unglazed cab, tiny wheels, chunky rods and moulded on everything! Why? Because it looked like a Bulleid. I say Bulleid because like the spam cam tooling it could be anything depending on what names and numbers were slapped on. That was the whole southern range. A one size fits all Bulleid Pacific. Now people loose their if a manufacturer doesn't tool for that one loco in class X that had slightly different buffers of a lower window. Union mills makes some nice models that are suitable for detailing and will drag you round the layout if you catch your sleeve on it!

 

The fact is the modern modeller has gotten lazy and expects too much.

[Bomag]

I don't agree with Dapol that there is a natural cap on retail prices; there may be a natural cap on what modellers will pay for models with silly errors, particularly liveries where the underlying model is good. 

 

A quick check on a couple of shop websites show an upcoming valanced A4 being just under £20 cheaper than a 2017 Duchess. Although the duchess is a better model I would be surprised if the A4 would sell any lower over the first two months if it was only £5 cheaper than the Duchess - as long as it looks right.

 

On another tack although the number of N gauge modellers is about a fifth of OO I read last year that the average N gauge modeller buys twice as many vehicles (not necessarily locos) per year than the average OO gauge modeller. I have no idea if this is an accurate estimate but my average train lengths are much higher than when I ran OO.

[grahame]

I don't agree with Dapol that there is a natural cap on retail prices; there may be a natural cap on what modellers will pay for models with silly errors, particularly liveries where the underlying model is good.

.

There are sectors of the N gauge market that would be happy to pay more, particularly for better quality. Take for example the customers who purchase CJM products and those who have said on this thread that £10 more a loco would be acceptable if it meant the development of a larger range. Unfortunately there are many N gauge enthusiasts who seem more vocal and animated in their opposition to increasing prices almost to the comical extremes of Harry Enfield's 'how much?' character.

 

An interesting comment/observation that there is a propensity for N gauge enthusiasts to purchase more rolling stock per person than OO modellers.

 

G.

[jjb1970]

Premium prices are fine for premium products. If Dapol want to charge more then I think their QC needs to improve to avoid their habit of releasing superb models let down by poor colours, dodgy wiring, suspect drives and incorrect printing. I've already said it on this thread but Dapol can produce tooling as good as the best available, as evidenced by the Western, 73 and 68. They also have a habit of taking a market leading model and then snatching defeat from the jaws of victory because of shoddy QC. If they want to survive and thrive then they need to get a grip on quality.

[grahame]

Premium prices are fine for premium products. If Dapol want to charge more then . . .

I don't think it's a matter of Dapol wanting to charge more but the market accepting that prices need to rise to cover increased costs and help fund development and expansion of product ranges so that manufacturers can stay in business and that British N gauge remains viable and boyant.

 

I get the impression that prices are too cheap for the products (even at the current quality level) and that prices must rise if we are to expect better quality. Dapol have indicted that they feel there is a cap on prices (not that eveyone agrees or that is true in all sectors) so how can it fund better quality without an increase.

 

G.

[Karhedron]

They also have a habit of taking a market leading model and then snatching defeat from the jaws of victory because of shoddy QC.

Their QC is no worse worse than Farish. Independent retailers like Hattons have confirmed that both N gauge ranges have approximately the same return rate. Some people may be luckier or unlukier.

 

What I find lets them down more often is the detail of their livery finishes. The original batch of Halls had mistakes on all 4 livery options. The misplaced "swoosh" on one side of the 00 gauge DRS 68 has been well documented elsewhere. The Pannier tanks have route code discs in plenty of wrong colours (some have even been red-rated  ). They have some lovely models but the attention to detail is lacking. Yes all these errors are fixable (and I have done so) but they really do fall into the "schoolboy error" category.

[Greenmodelmonkey]

I don't think it's a matter of Dapol wanting to charge more but the market accepting that prices need to rise to cover increased costs and help fund development and expansion of product ranges so that manufacturers can stay in business and that British N gauge remains viable and boyant.

I get the impression that prices are too cheap for the products (even at the current quality level) and that prices must rise if we are to expect better quality. Dapol have indicted that they feel there is a cap on prices (not that eveyone agrees or that is true in all sectors) so how can it fund better quality without an increase.

G.

By addressing root cause of problem not ignoring it!

[woodenhead]

Fire Sale N gauge at Alexandria Palace today whilst showcasing their Lionheart 0 gauage stuff and 00 gauge EPs

[Dunsignalling]

By addressing root cause of problem not ignoring it!

And that is?

[Greenmodelmonkey]

And that is?

Your are asking the wrong person ask Dapol it's their business not mine.

[jaym481]

If you don't know what the "root cause" is, how can you say it's something they need to address, or that they are ignoring it?

[bingley hall]

Fire Sale N gauge at Alexandria Palace today whilst showcasing their Lionheart 0 gauage stuff and 00 gauge EPs

 

So their whole N scale product range was up for grabs at 50% off or less?

 

Or just another tabloid headline?

 

EDIT: I've just seen the price they were selling Manors for. Flaming heck that is a fire sale!

[MGR Hooper!]

I hope things are clear to some members...I for one am happy that Dapol were quite open about the situation, they've admitted to over-announcing in the past (and that's a tradition we're still seeing elsewhere), but they've learnt now. I am glad that they've been open and as a small time business myself Brexit has affected my earnings also.

 

Ben Ando has explained things really well.

 

Delays and cancellations are unfortunate and sometimes annoying but we must remember that it's only a hobby and none of us have paid anything in advance for it. Therefore it won't affect our lives.

 

I wish Dapol well through these turbulent economic times and I know they'll come out!

One must not forget for a long time one of the only companies that maintained their prices really well was Dapol, they've barely increased their prices and till date you get quite a good selection at good prices.

[dpgibbons]

 

Independent retailers like Hattons have confirmed that both N gauge ranges have approximately the same return rate.

 

It might be worth quoting your source on that as it is clearly not the received wisdom here.

[James Makin]

At Ally Pally yesterday, I noticed the OO gauge Class 59 on display in their cabinet still (unpainted version) - didn't get a chance to ask the guys if it's still on the cards for development but its very presence in the cabinet must've been a good sign!

[alibuchan]

As the 00 59 tooling has already had a 1stEP, and possibly a 2nd, the expensive bit has been completed. So will be going ahead.

 

Alistair

[TomE]

One must not forget for a long time one of the only companies that maintained their prices really well was Dapol, they've barely increased their prices and till date you get quite a good selection at good prices.

Perhaps a larger contributing factor to their current position than any other reason? Failure to keep their pricing inline with increasing costs over the past few years meaning when they find themselves squeezed even tighter, they can't impose the increases now required for fear of pricing customers out of the market.

 

Tom.

[njee20]

I've said it before, but whilst it's very commendable to have kept their prices low. It's pretty bad commercial sense.

 

It's also potentially bitten the customer. I'd have paid 10% more for the last few years to ensure new models are viable.

[Greenmodelmonkey]

If you don't know what the "root cause" is, how can you say it's something they need to address, or that they are ignoring it?

Just responding to Grahame's post if you read what he said... Using root cause analysis can have many positive outcomes including cost reduction. So I was trying to answer his question. Hope this clarifies why I responded in the way i did.

[grahame]

By addressing root cause of problem not ignoring it!

There's a cost implication in addressing any 'root causes' and there lays a dilemma. So not quite that simple.

 

G.

[Butler Henderson]

Keeping prices down probably also explains the recent QC issues - the fact that the OO 73s suffer with pick up problems while using exactly the same pick up arrangement successfully used on other diesel models makes me think they have employed a different, cheaper, manufacturer in China who also plainly has difficultly applying the right colours and fonts in the case of 73s and getting paint masks and numberplates aligned right in the case of the 68s

[Karhedron]

It might be worth quoting your source on that as it is clearly not the received wisdom here.

 

My source is Hattons themselves. I was curious about it as some people claim to received multiple duds from Dapol while others have all good runners (for reference, I have only had one Dapol loco fail during running-in). I asked Hattons directly since a single customer is not really a representative sample.

 

Dapol tend to have issues with overheating motors and poor soldering. Farish tend to fail on split gears and jammed valve gear (on the tender driven steamers).

[bingley hall]

It might be worth quoting your source on that as it is clearly not the received wisdom here.

 

I remember it being mentioned more than once on these pages. Unfortunately the truth is the first casualty of the internet, especially when we have a feeding frenzy like the one going on here at the moment.