Third-Rail EMU Photos

[Peter Kazmierczak]

In the back of my head, I thought that the final batch of 4-CIGSs were initially based at Ramsgate. Mind must be playing tricks.....

[4630]

As built they were allocated between Brighton for use on the Central division and Fratton for use on the South West Division.

[talisman56]

IIRC the final batch of 4Cep units (7205-11) were originally slated for the SW division but ended up on the SED at Ramsgate, due to service reorganisations making them surplus to requirements on the SWD. Brighton ended up with some (additional) earlier Phase 1 units as a result...

 

The SWD had the second batch of 4Big units (7049-58) and most of the second batch of 4-Cig units (7337-66; 7357-66 went to Brighton) when new at Fratton to replace the Cor/Res units on the Portsmouth Direct, so the SWD had 'IG' units from 1970 onwards...

 

Allocations of 'IG' units on 1/10/72 were:

 

Brighton: 7031-48; 7301-36/57-76, 7400-05/27-38 <--- CD services London-Brighton/Eastbourne-Hastings/Littlehampton, Mid-Sussex line services to Bognor/Littlehampton, etc

Fratton: 7049-58; 7337-56 <--- 'Portsmouth Direct'

Wimbledon: 7377-99, 7406-26  <--- replaced pre-war units on Reading and associated services out of Waterloo

 

Where Peter K might be getting his SED recollection from is the last 4Cig 'batch' was only one unit, 7438, which was to replace 4Cep 7181, written off in the collision at Marden on 1/4/69. 7438 was delivered with the final units of the 7367-437 batch and joined them at BTON.

Edited April 10, 2018 by talisman56

[Wickham Green]

IIRC the final batch of 4Cep units (7205-11) were originally slated for the SW division but ended up on the SED at Ramsgate, due to service reorganisations making them surplus to requirements on the SWD. Brighton ended up with some (additional) earlier Phase 1 units as a result...

 

The SWD had the second batch of 4Big units (7049-58) and most of the second batch of 4-Cig units (7337-66; 7357-66 went to Brighton) when new at Fratton to replace the Cor/Res units on the Portsmouth Direct, so the SWD had 'IG' units from 1970 onwards...

 

Allocations of 'IG' units on 1/10/72 were:

 

Brighton: 7031-48; 7301-36/57-76, 7400-05/27-38 <--- CD services London-Brighton/Eastbourne-Hastings/Littlehampton, Mid-Sussex line services to Bognor/Littlehampton, etc

Fratton: 7049-58; 7337-56 <--- 'Portsmouth Direct'

Wimbledon: 7377-99, 7406-26  <--- replaced pre-war units on Reading and associated services out of Waterloo

 

Where Peter K might be getting his SED recollection from is the last 4Cig 'batch' was only one unit, 7438, which was to replace 4Cep 7181, written off in the collision at Marden on 1/4/69. 7438 was delivered with the final units of the 7367-437 batch and joined them at BTON.

I've heard it said that 'IG' was an old code for Brighton ( no, don't ask me what happened to Br hton ) - though I don't think that was confirmed ...... the derivation's a mystery otherwise.

[talisman56]

I've heard it said that 'IG' was an old code for Brighton ( no, don't ask me what happened to Br hton ) - though I don't think that was confirmed ...... the derivation's a mystery otherwise.

 

Two derivations I've heard of:

1) 'IG' was the old LBSCR telegraph code for Brighton (perpetuated on the SeMG page);

2) 'IG' stands for 'Intermediate Guard' as these were the first 4-car units to vary from the established practice of having a power car with guard/luggage area behind the drivers cab at each end of the unit (so why weren't the 'VEP's 'VIG's?).

Edited April 10, 2018 by talisman56

[Southernman46]

In the back of my head, I thought that the final batch of 4-CIGSs were initially based at Ramsgate. Mind must be playing tricks.....

It was the final batch of 4-VEP's ............... from 7862 ish that went to RMGT ............. and how we enjoyed them for the next 35 years 

 

It is saying something when you actively seek out the 4-VEP in a train rather than endure re-furbished CEP seating

 

I do remember see 2 separate 12-car trains of spanking new (you could almost smell the paint) 4-CIG's all in the 743x range pass Gillingham coast-bound on a Sunday AM in '72 as excursions from ?? - but as 9-year old, all I was interested in was the "rare" numbers that could be underlined

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Thought it was the final batch of something........

 

Anyway, here's a well-known signal gantry back in 1977, as a REP/TC combo approach on a "91" Waterloo fast.

 

[Gwiwer]

Did they get many 4-CIGs at Eastleigh Mike?

 

 

I always associated the CIGs much more with the Central and SE Divisions, but in later days looks like things changed a bit.

I know we even had some 4-CEPs on the Bournemouth, which would've been unheard of a few years earlier.

 

There were CIG duties through Eastleigh from as soon as the SWD batch first entered service on the Portsmouth Direct.  On Summer Saturdays two 8CIG trains departed Eastleigh for Lymington Pier and returned as Lymington Pier - Waterloo through trains.  The remaining workings of both diagrams were e.c.s I believe as the routes via Fareham were not electrified at the time so they had to come down via Basingstoke.  There was no Waterloo - Lymington direct service.  

 

There were also one or two scheduled CIG workings on the "93s", Waterloo - Bournemouth stoppers, probably for traction knowledge as much as anything, and I believe at times also on a peak-hour Bournemouth - Waterloo and back in the evening though I don't recall them being berthed at Bournemouth West.

 

In later years they became rather more common once Fareham was electrified and turned up on Portsmouth - Waterloo via Eastleigh trains.  But in general the CIGs were found on the Central Division, Portsmouth Direct and Reading lines.  A few were later allocated to Ramsgate and introduced the type to the SED main lines where they ran freely mixed with CEP and VEP units despite supposedly having specific diagrams.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Back to 1977 and a fine June evening finds us on the high level platforms at Portsmouth & Southsea station. The VEPs and BIGs still had their original (and understandable) unit numbers in those days.

 

[Gwiwer]

Back to 1977 and a fine June evening finds us on the high level platforms at Portsmouth & Southsea station. The VEPs and BIGs still had their original (and understandable) unit numbers in those days.

 

File2268.jpg

 

And understandable headcodes

 

Many users, whether daily commuter or occasional traveller, knew the number to look out for.  You knew an 81 wasn't going to stop at Rowlands Castle nor was a 73 the fastest train to Waterloo.  All we have now is "Portsmth Hbr" although (at least some) class 450 units have recently been seen displaying an SR headcode alongside the destination such as 52 Alton.

[4630]

Back to 1977 and a fine June evening finds us on the high level platforms at Portsmouth & Southsea station. The VEPs and BIGs still had their original (and understandable) unit numbers in those days.

 

File2268.jpg

 

 

Lovely image Peter.  You can almost hear the background thump of an air compressor and whine of the MG set.  All topped off by the presence of typical 'Southern' platform lamp posts and shades.

Edited April 11, 2018 by 4630

[4630]

A few more from my archives.

 

These are from circa 1985/86 and were probably taken just before the launch of Network Southeast as the lamp posts haven't been painted red.  I can't be more precise as at the time I didn't keep comprehensive notes of when and where I'd been.  And of course, film cameras didn't record EXIF data!

 

These are scanned from prints so apologies for the variable colour reproduction and image quality. 

 

Class 455 5831 at East Croydon with a service for London Victoria.

 

 

 

Gatwick Luggage Van 9104 passing through East Croydon.  Shouldn't that GLV be displaying red panels rather than white in the headcode box?

 

 

 

How Charing Cross used to look with assorted SR and BR EPBs occupying the platforms.  My Southern Electric Headcode book suggests that 6214 is waiting to depart with a service to Gillingham/Ramsgate via Lewisham and Erith.

 

 

 

De-Icer 002 berthed in the siding at Bournemouth T&RSMD where it could often be found which, at that time, was easily visible from the adjacent Wessex Way.

 

 

 

[eastwestdivide]

How Charing Cross used to look with assorted SR and BR EPBs occupying the platforms.  My Southern Electric Headcode book suggests that 6214 is waiting to depart with a service to Gillingham/Ramsgate via Lewisham and Erith....

99% sure the '62' would have been Gillingham rather than Ramsgate, as it's suburban stock. There was a period in the 1980s when one of the two '62's per hour ran through to Ramsgate, but normally with CEPs rather than EPBs. 

Earlier, from the 1960s electrification into the 70s, one '62' per hour ran though to Ramsgate (splitting at Strood for Maidstone West) with 2-HAPs, and the other Gillingham service was an '82' via Greenwich.

From the late 1970s into the 1980s, the two per hour '62s' were all Gillingham apart from in the summer when 3 down in the morning and 3 back in the evening ran through for the bucket and spade mob.

There were probably other variations, but that was the general off-peak pattern.

 

Guess whose regular trains to London from Kent were the '62's - they were non-stop between Gravesend and Dartford, and didn't half bounce over the pointwork at Northfleet.

I'd have preferred the "other" 62 headcode, Exeter-Waterloo!

[Gwiwer]

The GLV is leading the train and therefore double whites is acceptable. The official headcode was 20 (30 if diverted through Redhill) but double whites was quite common. It saved a bit of blind-winding.

[Ian Morgan]

I managed to get some snaps of 002 passing Poole Park. Not sure of the date, but some time in the 1980's.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ian Morgan
re-loaded images

[73c]

4630's photo of 002. The lamp on it looks more like one used on a buffer stop.

[Mike Storey]

99% sure the '62' would have been Gillingham rather than Ramsgate, as it's suburban stock. There was a period in the 1980s when one of the two '62's per hour ran through to Ramsgate, but normally with CEPs rather than EPBs. 

Earlier, from the 1960s electrification into the 70s, one '62' per hour ran though to Ramsgate (splitting at Strood for Maidstone West) with 2-HAPs, and the other Gillingham service was an '82' via Greenwich.

From the late 1970s into the 1980s, the two per hour '62s' were all Gillingham apart from in the summer when 3 down in the morning and 3 back in the evening ran through for the bucket and spade mob.

There were probably other variations, but that was the general off-peak pattern.

 

Guess whose regular trains to London from Kent were the '62's - they were non-stop between Gravesend and Dartford, and didn't half bounce over the pointwork at Northfleet.

I'd have preferred the "other" 62 headcode, Exeter-Waterloo!

 

Agree with all that except that the 62's were still splitting at Strood the first year I was at the Medway (1981, or early 1982, I think). It stopped soon after. The Ramsgates out of CX were usually 2 HAPs and/or VEPs, the CEPs being preferred for Chatham fasts because of the 4 BEPs, but there was a lot of variation, for sure. At Gillingham shed we kept to 4 EPB's and 2HAPs, with some 4VEPs and the odd 4CEP visitor, for berthing, fairly straightforward. But, when I was eventually transferred to Ramsgate, my shunters were forever complaining that they could not keep to the rostered stock diagrams, because of step-ups the previous day and red carders overnight. Beckenham used to send us stock changeover lists every night (about 3 am) and lunchtime via the teleprinter, that were often three feet long!  The Senior Railman Shunter would shove this in my face if I dared ask why so-and-so train was 10 minutes late to the station. The Unit Diagram lists published every six months were largely works of aspiration, and their value as "historical documents" is a little bit suspect.....

[eastwestdivide]

I think the splitting at Strood lasted longer (i.e. into the 1980s as you say) in the rush hours only, as headcode 42/44 CX-Sidcup-Gillingham/Maidstone, but the off-peak 62s ceased splitting there somewhat earlier. 

[Gwiwer]

Or you could enjoy another 62.  Brighton - Portsmouth Harbour stopping.  Usually Hove, Shoreham, Worthing then all stations except Hilsea but sometimes every station and halt was included.  

[roythebus]

A few more from my archives.

 

These are from circa 1985/86 and were probably taken just before the launch of Network Southeast as the lamp posts haven't been painted red.  I can't be more precise as at the time I didn't keep comprehensive notes of when and where I'd been.  And of course, film cameras didn't record EXIF data!

 

These are scanned from prints so apologies for the variable colour reproduction and image quality. 

 

Class 455 5831 at East Croydon with a service for London Victoria.

 

5831 East Croydon 1986 RMweb.jpg

 

 

Gatwick Luggage Van 9104 passing through East Croydon.  Shouldn't that GLV be displaying red panels rather than white in the headcode box?

 

9104 East Croydon 1986 RMweb.jpg

 

 

How Charing Cross used to look with assorted SR and BR EPBs occupying the platforms.  My Southern Electric Headcode book suggests that 6214 is waiting to depart with a service to Gillingham/Ramsgate via Lewisham and Erith.

 

6214+5137 Charing Cross 1986 RMweb.jpg

 

 

De-Icer 002 berthed in the siding at Bournemouth T&RSMD where it could often be found which, at that time, was easily visible from the adjacent Wessex Way.

 

002 Bournemouth T&RSMD 1986 RMweb.jpg

 

The GLV appears to have a driver in it, so white blanks are what to expect at the front!

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Something a little more current, from earlier today.

 

One of the 5-WES units currently being repainted at BM Depot, before completing their refurbishment at Eastleigh. 

 

You'll have to take my word that this is 2416; no numbers or decals have been applied yet.

 

[4630]

A further batch of nostalgia from me today.

 

Unlike yesterdays contribution, I can pin down the date of these photos as taken on either the 23rd or 24th August 1986.  They were taken at London Cannon Street which was hosting a weekend event to celebrate the 150 years anniversary of the London & Greenwich Railway, and also at London Bridge which was at the other end of 2Bil-4Sub shuttle service.

 

4Sub 4732 departing Cannon Street

 

 

Various views of 4732 at London Bridge

 

 

 

 

and 2Bil 2090

 

 

And whilst at London Bridge I also snapped;

 

5821

 

 

plus 5431 and 6333 awaiting their next duty.

 

 

 

 

[John M Upton]

Nice presumably BR Bedford HA(?) van poking its nose into shot on that last picture.  I think there is even one BR one preserved somewhere!

[eastwestdivide]

Back to some snowy gloom in Jan 1985, and unit 7777 is in Strood, near the bottom of Sole Street bank.

At least there were numbers both sides, xx77 on the left and 77xx on the right

 

Or alternatively, take the number off the back - same train going away, with another coming up:

The '62' headcode is off-route, so either the train has been diverted via Sole Street away from the '62' Dartford route to London or it's (very unusually) the wrong headcode for the service. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by eastwestdivide

[Wickham Green]

Back to some snowy gloom in Jan 1985, and unit 7777 is in Strood, near the bottom of Sole Street bank.

Strood Jan85.jpg

At least there were numbers both sides, xx77 on the left and 77xx on the right

 

Or alternatively, take the number off the back - same train going away, with another coming up:

Strood Jan85 b.jpg

The '62' headcode is off-route, so either the train has been diverted via Sole Street away from the '62' Dartford route to London or it's (very unusually) the wrong headcode for the service. 

The headcode should apply to the ROUTE - whatever the service ......... so the bobby knows which way to send it when it approaches his 'box.