Penmaenpool (Llyn Penmaen)

[Focalplane]

Cool heads prevail (when the air-conditioning is on!).  The double slip has been wired up and tested.  It was a bit of a pain as there is no way to know which two way contacts should be soldered to which terminals.  It seems trial and error is the way to get it right.  It is also important to remember that the opposite Tortoise controls each of the frogs.  That doesn't sound logical but it is!

 

So I now have three Tortoises running with three more to go.  I also have to wire up the lifting section in the doorway before I can run a continuous circuit.

 

But I have tested various locos and they all passed through the double slip, including the Lee Marsh Jubilee.  I also found that I could control the Ivatt mogul's slipping with judicious control of the regulator.  The YouChoos sound file responds nicely.  In fact the Jubilee's sound file sounds quite synthetic, which shows how quickly sound files are improving as the Jub is only three years old.

 

Paul

[bgman]

Seems you're making good progress Paul, it's always a good moment when you successfuly run locos over newly laid track.

 

As an aside, I must admit to thinking about buying a ready made double slip a few days ago whilst making this ..

 

 

I did crack on into the night and with very minor adjustment to one piece I as extremely pleased to push some "test" wagons through and watch them negotiate it without any problems. Always nice when a plan starts to come together.

It may not be as good as others have made but considering I managed to stand on my first d/ slip a few weeks ago ( copper clad version ) I couldn't leave it there. I used some Peco Individulay components and managed to build this for a fraction of the cost.

 

Sorry to invade your work but I hope you don't mind me sharing it with you.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Grahame

[Focalplane]

No invasion, Grahame!  That double slip looks very nice.  I did make a C&L 3 way point two years ago and I am sure it will work but I don't have a place for it.  The 3 way point was a learning experience with a possible end use.  Sometimes that is how you push the envelope forward.  It would actually look very nice in a frame on the wall, well, it would to me at least!

 

Paul

[St Enodoc]

Seems you're making good progress Paul, it's always a good moment when you successfuly run locos over newly laid track.

 

As an aside, I must admit to thinking about buying a ready made double slip a few days ago whilst making this ..

 

image.jpeg

 

I did crack on into the night and with very minor adjustment to one piece I as extremely pleased to push some "test" wagons through and watch them negotiate it without any problems. Always nice when a plan starts to come together.

It may not be as good as others have made but considering I managed to stand on my first d/ slip a few weeks ago ( copper clad version ) I couldn't leave it there. I used some Peco Individulay components and managed to build this for a fraction of the cost.

 

Sorry to invade your work but I hope you don't mind me sharing it with you.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Grahame

Nice work. Don't put this one on the floor.

[bgman]

Nice work. Don't put this one on the floor.

Thank you, it's definitely staying on the boards !

[Focalplane]

I believe we are now officially experiencing a canicule, French for heatwave. Though I think it is just as hot in parts of the UK. Well, this has kept me in the railway room and I have made some progress on the three points’ motor wiring. 2 done, one to go. But I then noticed that I have to tackle the double crossover if I am to run circuits. That will require 4 Tortoises and some clever wiring.

 

Oh well!

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

All except the double crossover completed and all the hidden tracks have been tested with various locos.  I found one fishplate that was out of vertical alignment and this has been corrected.  I also have two 1:50 slopes that need to be fine tuned (by repositioning the vertical supports) as the Jubilee, of all locos, starts to spin if not given enough power.  But other than that the testing has gone well.  I will start thinking about the double crossover next, using suggestions by Clive Mortimer and SimonD on earlier pages.

 

I also should bring out the Connoisseur 4F 0-6-0 for a run, it's been a while.  I see Coachmann has one at Carrog but I think having it run to Penmaenpool would be difficult to explain - failed mogul on a Birkenhead-Barmouth excursion at Chester, anyone?  Though why a Saltley engine would be on shed at Chester would be very difficult to explain.

 

Future locomotive power already includes the Warren Shephard mogul and now it looks as though David Andrews will have his Dukedog kit ready by the end of August.  I am going to miss Telford, unfortunately, as we have to be in France that weekend, but this may stop me from spending too much.

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

The double crossover!  It turns out that Marcway's design and the online wiring diagrams don't match up.  Which may explain why, when I called Marc some time ago he said I would need a DPDT switch.  The rest of his description was, quite honestly, lost in translation, so now I have to reconcile the track design with four Tortoises.

 

The first realization is that in fact there can only be two settings for the four points.  Straight through or crossover.  And when I say crossover this means that both crossovers could be active at the same time.  For the time being I am prepared to accept the possibility of a terrible accident (if it was a club layout that would be unacceptable) and eventually I plan to have a lighted track diagram and maybe some protection system providing a right of way to one crossover over the other.

 

So, I have photographed the two logical settings and these are shown below, if only to try to explain what I plan to do next:

 

 

 

EDIT:  Ignore this photo!!!!  See later posts

 

The plan is to add in red and blue the polarities of each section of track when either straight or crossover and see if there are any bits that can't be accounted for using the Tortoise switches.

 

Meantime, see next post for better news!

 

Paul

Edited July 28, 2018 by Focalplane

[Focalplane]

As promised, better news.  The Connoisseur LMS 4F was introduced to Penmaenpool and went well.  However, it started to short out over the double slip where nothing else did cause a short.

 

The problem?  The hinged plate between cab and tender was interfering with the stability of the two parts of the locomotive, not being in the right position.  All now works well, so I need to make a movie.

 

Paul

[daifly]

The first realization is that in fact there can only be two settings for the four points.  Straight through or crossover. 

 

Sorry Paul

Nonsense! With point motors wired in crossover pairs, they are either straight or crossover. You only switch the pair that you require. An interlock to prevent the other pair being set to conflict would be a smart move for the reason you've highlighted. The other pair remain on the 'straight road"

Dave

[Ray H]

There's also the problem of powering the V crossings in the centre of the crossover - i.e. between the running roads.

 

They need to be polarity A for using one crossover and polarity B for the other - (if I've got my facts right). The difficulty may come in developing a way to correctly polarise those crossings when their polarity could be set by either crossover.

 

I fitted a Marcway three way point on a colleague's layout and found that I had to add a number of additional breaks in the copper clad sleepers to stop short circuits. I should add that I seem to recall that I also had to bond a few of the cuts in the item as well.

[Jintyman]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't the 'K' crossings incorporating the turnout frogs needed to be switched as well as the crossing frogs?

I know some are against the use of these units, but I've had perfect running over both my single slip and my threeway using just one Hex Frog Juicer. Easy to set up and just one wire from each K crossing and each crossing frog and you'll still have two ports left over! (PS; Don't tell SimonD, he hates the things  )

 

Jinty

[daifly]

No need to re-invent the wheel. The wiring for a ‘scissors’ crossover is shown in the original online Guild Manual on pages 8-3-12/3

Dave

[Focalplane]

The above discussion highlights my problem, mentally at least. I agree that each crossover should be handled separately but my thought was to simplify as much as possible, then resolve the remaining complexity.

 

I need to look at the Guild manual before adding anything else.

 

Meanwhile the video is supposed to be transferring fron iPhone to iCloud. Tomorrow awaits.

 

Thanks, Paul

[Simond]

Paul,

 

I’m completely with Dave on this, conceptually there are three routes, straight & straight, north-east to / from south west, and north west to/from south east. At this point (sorry) the frog polarities become determined, and you can set them according to the route.

 

It is perfectly possible to interlock the routes so you can’t set NE-SW at the same time as NW-SE, and you can minimise the risk of a cornfield meet by switching quite long lengths of the approaches with the interlocking, but beware, this may cause other issues like preventing a train leaving a previous section, and of course keep-alive capacitors ignore dead sections!

 

If you need to talk through it, I’m happy to help, but probably not before Sunday evening!

 

Best

Simon

[N15class]

The double crossover!  It turns out that Marcway's design and the online wiring diagrams don't match up.  Which may explain why, when I called Marc some time ago he said I would need a DPDT switch.  The rest of his description was, quite honestly, lost in translation, so now I have to reconcile the track design with four Tortoises.

 

The first realization is that in fact there can only be two settings for the four points.  Straight through or crossover.  And when I say crossover this means that both crossovers could be active at the same time.  For the time being I am prepared to accept the possibility of a terrible accident (if it was a club layout that would be unacceptable) and eventually I plan to have a lighted track diagram and maybe some protection system providing a right of way to one crossover over the other.

 

So, I have photographed the two logical settings and these are shown below, if only to try to explain what I plan to do next:

 

IMG_2103.JPG

 

IMG_2104.JPG

 

The plan is to add in red and blue the polarities of each section of track when either straight or crossover and see if there are any bits that can't be accounted for using the Tortoise switches.

 

Meantime, see next post for better news!

 

Paul

There's a very good wiring diagram in the GOG manual. It's what I used to wire mine up. You need 6 switched as mines for the test track I used 4 motors with switches and 2 single pole double throw, mounted next to the point switches. I would use micro switches worked from the appropriate switches.

[St Enodoc]

Paul,

 

I’m completely with Dave on this, conceptually there are three routes, straight & straight, north-east to / from south west, and north west to/from south east. At this point (sorry) the frog polarities become determined, and you can set them according to the route.

 

It is perfectly possible to interlock the routes so you can’t set NE-SW at the same time as NW-SE, and you can minimise the risk of a cornfield meet by switching quite long lengths of the approaches with the interlocking, but beware, this may cause other issues like preventing a train leaving a previous section, and of course keep-alive capacitors ignore dead sections!

 

If you need to talk through it, I’m happy to help, but probably not before Sunday evening!

 

Best

Simon

Paul, I'm with both Dave and Simon. Set up the motors so that NE and SW operate as a pair and NW and SE operate as another pair. A four-pole three-way rotary switch would be a good way to control the motors.

 

Furthermore, as you're using Tortoises with two changeover switches per motor, I think that you can do all the crossing switching through them - this being conditional on the whole scissors being in the same power district.

 

Use one switch per tortoise for the crossings on the associated point. That's the easy bit. Now, for the V crossings on the diamond, switch them from either of the point motors at the opposite end of the crossing - i.e. switch the E crossing from one of the motors at the W end and switch the W crossing from one of the motors at the E end. As you can only run NE/SW or NW/SE at one time, this should work. Finally, the K crossings don't need switching at all. The N crossing is always at the same polarity as the topmost running rail and the S crossing is always at the same polarity as the bottom-most running rail.

 

I hope this makes sense without a diagram!

[Focalplane]

Paul, I'm with both Dave and Simon. Set up the motors so that NE and SW operate as a pair and NW and SE operate as another pair. A four-pole three-way rotary switch would be a good way to control the motors.

 

Furthermore, as you're using Tortoises with two changeover switches per motor, I think that you can do all the crossing switching through them - this being conditional on the whole scissors being in the same power district.

 

Use one switch per tortoise for the crossings on the associated point. That's the easy bit. Now, for the V crossings on the diamond, switch them from either of the point motors at the opposite end of the crossing - i.e. switch the E crossing from one of the motors at the W end and switch the W crossing from one of the motors at the E end. As you can only run NE/SW or NW/SE at one time, this should work. Finally, the K crossings don't need switching at all. The N crossing is always at the same polarity as the topmost running rail and the S crossing is always at the same polarity as the bottom-most running rail.

 

I hope this makes sense without a diagram!

 

Here I am at 4:50 am wide awake and thinking along the same lines as your post.

 

First of all, the entire layout is planed to be one power district.

 

Second, I was thinking about using the second powered switches on the Tortoises.  This needs more thought (be me) but could be very useful.

 

I have retaken two photos that show the NE/SW and NW/SE settings:

 

 

 

I can use these to map out the changes in polarity for each of the three settings.

 

Also, can I control the motors using only two levers?  For straight running, both levers off, then one or the other lever pulled on to set the required crossing?  Some form of interlocking would be a luxury at this stage.

 

The dawn chorus just started, I think a mug of tea might be the next activity of the day!

 

Bon Journée!  Paul

[St Enodoc]

Here I am at 4:50 am wide awake and thinking along the same lines as your post.

 

First of all, the entire layout is planed to be one power district.

 

Second, I was thinking about using the second powered switches on the Tortoises.  This needs more thought (be me) but could be very useful.

 

I have retaken two photos that show the NE/SW and NW/SE settings:

 

IMG_2106.JPG

 

IMG_2107.JPG

 

I can use these to map out the changes in polarity for each of the three settings.

 

Also, can I control the motors using only two levers?  For straight running, both levers off, then one or the other lever pulled on to set the required crossing?  Some form of interlocking would be a luxury at this stage.

 

The dawn chorus just started, I think a mug of tea might be the next activity of the day!

 

Bon Journée!  Paul

Paul, now I've seen the photos more clearly I think it needs more thought, as the two K crossings seem to be integral electrically with the V crossings of the adjacent points.

 

Regarding the levers, yes - but I suggest you have a big sign saying DON'T PULL BOTH THESE (insert expletive of choice) LEVERS AT THE SAME TIME! next to them. You could actually interlock lock the levers very simply with a length of cord tying them together and passing round a vertical post behind them.

[Focalplane]

Here is a link to the LMS 4F test run.  A couple of comments:

 

The loco needs more weight added for greater adhesion on the inclines.  I didn't realize just how heavy those Dapol B set coaches are!

 

The run uses about 80% of the planned circuit and also takes the loop under the back of the scenic section which will eventually be used to store excursion trains.

 

And, not an excuse, but with an iPhone in one hand and a controller in the other it was hard to use any functions for the sounds.  The 4F sound file is from Digitrains.

 

 

Enjoy, Paul

[3 link]

 

And, not an excuse, but with an iPhone in one hand and a controller in the other it was hard to use any functions for the sounds.  

 

Enjoy, Paul

Morning Paul,

 

Great video, just wondered if you have heard of " Touchcab " ? It is what I use and I can control the locos, sound, signals and turnouts all from either an iPod, iPhone or an. iPad. Very user friendly and would throughly recommend.

 

Martyn.

[Focalplane]

Morning Paul,

 

Great video, just wondered if you have heard of " Touchcab " ? It is what I use and I can control the locos, sound, signals and turnouts all from either an iPod, iPhone or an. iPad. Very user friendly and would throughly recommend.

 

Martyn.

 

Martyn

 

Thanks for the recommendation (and the video "like"!).  Unfortunately I have the wrong brand of controller, the app says for ESU, Marklin and Lenz only.  Is there an equivalent for the NEC powerCab?

 

Paul

[Fastdax]

Thanks for the recommendation (and the video "like"!).  Unfortunately I have the wrong brand of controller, the app says for ESU, Marklin and Lenz only.  Is there an equivalent for the NEC powerCab?

 

Paul

 

I use WiThrottle Lite with my NCE PowerCab.

 

You need an NCE USB adapter board (like this) to connect your PowerCab bus to a PC/laptop on the same network as your WiFi router.

 

Here's mine, under Offerston Quay:

 

 

Then install JMRI Panel Pro, which includes WiThrottle, on the PC/laptop and install WiThrottle Lite on your mobile phone/tablet.

 

When you run Panel Pro and enable WiThrottle, it makes a WiFi connection to WiThrottle Lite on your phone and you can wirelessly control all of the PowerCab controls.

 

I tend to use WiThrottle Lite now for all train driving, as it makes the sound functions much easier to use by naming them on-screen, instead of having to remember what F numbers do what.

 

 

I can go into more detail if you like but it has probably been covered elsewhere in this parish already.

 

One advantage of this method is that the only cost is the NCE USB board (and a USB cable!). All of the software is free.

[Focalplane]

Thanks, Duncan, just the info I was hoping for. I have sone JMRI stuff from a few years ago when I started out with DCC and a Digitrax controller. It all fell by the wayside when I bought the NCE Power Cab. I will look nto this when I have mastered the scissor cross over wiring! One thing at a time.

 

Trying to retrofit 4 Tortoises under the scissor crossover had me mouthing blue words so I have taken the track base off and am making a removable module. It is what I will do with the scenic track bases.

 

I do have some irregular inclines within the hidden tracks so there will also be sone adjusting of the track supports. There are two small sections that are causing several locos to stall when pulling loads. However I can see a way round the problem plus the 4F reminded me that I had never added any extra weight when it only ran as an on shed light engine at Legge Lane.

 

The longer excursion trains won’t actually travel on the steeper inclines but even so, prototype running often had them double headed.

 

Paul

[81A Oldoak]

I use WiThrottle Lite with my NCE PowerCab.

 

You need an NCE USB adapter board (like this) to connect your PowerCab bus to a PC/laptop on the same network as your WiFi router.

 

Here's mine, under Offerston Quay:

 

2016-12-19 003.JPG

 

Then install JMRI Panel Pro, which includes WiThrottle, on the PC/laptop and install WiThrottle Lite on your mobile phone/tablet.

 

When you run Panel Pro and enable WiThrottle, it makes a WiFi connection to WiThrottle Lite on your phone and you can wirelessly control all of the PowerCab controls.

 

I tend to use WiThrottle Lite now for all train driving, as it makes the sound functions much easier to use by naming them on-screen, instead of having to remember what F numbers do what.

 

2018-07-28 001.PNG

 

I can go into more detail if you like but it has probably been covered elsewhere in this parish already.

 

One advantage of this method is that the only cost is the NCE USB board (and a USB cable!). All of the software is free.

Very interesting. I use a Powercab and may look into this for Cwm Bach.

 

CK