Steamport Southport Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I get the impression that now it’s not possible to vent on CC it’s BB’s turn. I feel sorry for whoever's called AA then.... Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Funny you should mention E4um Bill - it was populated by a large number of navel gazing obnoxious individuals who did nothing to further modelling, they simply attempted to ridicule anyone who wasn't in their elite group (or clique) by posting all sorts of Clueless Lightweight Ars*y Guff while producing nothing themselves. The likes of E4um is best confined to history - despite the ridicule I received on there I was still a major contributor to a succesfull fast running P4 exhibition model and they are still building the same cra model they were putting up as "the best" all those years ago - it could have been good had the moderator not allowed the abusive posts to go unchecked, I wonder who that was ... Funny, I have fond memories of E4um as being a useful place that got me well started into P4. The members were, for the most part, helpful and knowledgeable especially in the matter of suspension and drives. There were some grumpy types but they can be found on any forum, even here. Your mileage will vary, I suppose... Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Defective products are the retailer's responsibility. It's up to him to report defects to the manufacturers. I am neither retailer nor manufacturer of the Bill Bedford range. But Bill, I never claimed you to be either manufacturer (the Etcher) or retailer (the vendor). I simply asked what "input" you have to the range that currently carries your name for reasons clearly outlined in my earlier post. Your reply tries to give the impression that you no longer have anything to do with the Bill Bedford Models Brand and it would be solely the manufacturer's responsibility to correct any defects or errors that were reported to them. Would that be correct? So another simple question. Do you still hold the Intellectual Property Rights to the products that carry the name and Copyright © "Bill Bedford Models"? Corrected in 2011 That's strange. I've ordered BB J94 coupling rods on three occasions since Eileen's took over retail duties. Each time they have had to be returned as they were the incorrect type. Eileen's service was exemplary and they exchanged the coupling rods for BB 08 coupling rods (Which I had to shorten to fit the J94.) without question. Images of the J94 coupling rods only appeared on the retail web site after the recent update but this clearly shows a Rev. 2 etch still with the articulation on the wrong rod. https://eileensemporium.com/images/com_hikashop/upload/sfk0800_lner_j94.jpg Maybe the drawing was corrected in 2011, but maybe due to the originals being incorrect, sales have never been high enough to warrant a run of correct etches? Could you clarify please? Regardless, your reply has renewed my confidence in ordering another set of "corrected" of J94 rods. I look forward to reporting back once they are in my possession. No information. I suppose it doesn't really matter if you no longer have any input into Bill Bedford Models but just to be courteous and for your information. A prototype Diagram 1890 buffer plank. The Diag. 1890 BV etch with correct Buffer beam overlay. https://eileensemporium.com/images/com_hikashop/upload/bbuw1090.jpg The Stanier brake van etch with incorrect Diag. 1890 Buffer beam overlay https://eileensemporium.com/images/com_hikashop/upload/bbuw1091-4.jpg The two types of prototype Stanier buffer beam plank. Brake Van at Middleton Top by John Evans, on Flickr and HTH This is a Mousa Models product. There have been over 200 sold in 15 years, so the problem doesn't seem to be a show stopper. So with it being a Mousa product at at last we appear to be speaking with the horse's mouth. I agree In it doesn't seem to be a show stopper and as I said in my earlier post does not take much modelling to correct but is the error and how to correct it referenced to in the instructions? Just so as not to catch out the unwary you understand. Would it not just have been easier to correct the etch when you were made aware of the problem all those years ago. Or would that be down to the manufacturer (Etcher) you mentioned earlier? One and the same company I would imagine. As we go into the new year here's a thought to ponder. If the etch had been correct in the first place or corrected, it might not have been an average of just over one Conflat L kit a month you were selling . It may well have been two or three. Who knows? Anyhow, must away as I'm in charge of fireworks and apple dookin. Here's wishing you and yours a happy new year and a very prosperous new year. P Edited December 31, 2017 by Porcy Mane 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted December 31, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2017 The whole "mental health" argument is also a very questionable defence, as it would mean that Mr Dunn's website had become a weird crowd-funding project to support someone who should really be in receipt of medical attention. Don't follow that line of thinking. The possibility of mental health issues is offered as a possible explanation of what's been going on, not a defence of what has happened. It follows, therefore, that if someone is suffering in this way, they deserve to be treated accordingly as someone who is unwell. Is doesn't have to mean that the process of seeking reimbursement of money owed should stop, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Don't follow that line of thinking. The possibility of mental health issues is offered as a possible explanation of what's been going on, not a defence of what has happened. It follows, therefore, that if someone is suffering in this way, they deserve to be treated accordingly as someone who is unwell. Is doesn't have to mean that the process of seeking reimbursement of money owed should stop, though. If it has no bearing on the attempts of individuals to recoup their financial loss (& presumably to prevent such losses in the future) then why raise the subject of mental health at all? And why criticise the reaction of some on here as overly intemperate - who knows what issues any individual is dealing with? The line between seeking to explain and appearing as an apologist is a fine one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 So what do you at an exhibition, as i was not that long ago, where the trader couldn't get a signal for his card reader and the customer had neither cash nor chequebook? Ray. I think the machines have now got a bit better in the past year, as far less instances of no or weak signals for the machines. But not just model railway shows, a hotel on an island in Poole Harbour, the receptionist had to take the machine to the window, a cafe in Heybridge where the waitress had to hold the machine up in the air. Another option for those who organise themselves is to pre-pay prior to the show, postage savings pays for the shows entrance fee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) If it has no bearing on the attempts of individuals to recoup their financial loss (& presumably to prevent such losses in the future) then why raise the subject of mental health at all? Something very wrong has happened with Coopercraft and people have been owed money for some time for goods not supplied. There are others who agree with me that mental health could be an issue. Are you saying that you aren't interested in understanding fully why that has happened? And why criticise the reaction of some on here as overly intemperate - who knows what issues any individual is dealing with? Because - in my opinion (and that of some others I am aware of on this forum) - the reaction has been excessively intemperate. Yes, indeed, who knows indeed what issues any individual is dealing with? Including Paul Dunn, for example, who, it seems clear, is definitely having to deal with some kind of issue(s) or other. The 'overly intemperate' reactions that I have criticised only apply to a small number of those, who have posted comments expressing concern or upset about Mr Dunn. Yet their tone has been sufficient for someone other than me to describe the 'communal reaction' to this situation as akin to a 'lynch mob'. The line between seeking to explain and appearing as an apologist is a fine one. To you, perhaps, but there seem to be sufficient folk on here who do understand exactly what I have been trying to do. I can see a clear difference between the two scenarios, so I'm sorry that you appear to be having difficulties understanding my contributions here. It may be that I haven't used precisely the most appropriate vocabulary or phraseology to get the meaning across at times. Edited January 1, 2018 by Captain Kernow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stannard Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) Something very wrong has happened with Coopercraft and people have been owed money for some time for goods not supplied. There are others who agree with me that mental health could be an issue. Are you saying that you aren't interested in understanding fully why that has happened? Because - in my opinion (and that of some others I am aware of on this forum) - the reaction has been excessively intemperate. Yes, indeed, who knows indeed what issues any individual is dealing with? Including Paul Dunn, for example, who, it seems clear, is definitely having to deal with some kind of issue(s) or other. The 'overly intemperate' reactions that I have criticised only apply to a small number of those, who have posted comments expressing concern or upset about Mr Dunn. Yet their tone has been sufficient for someone other than me to describe the 'communal reaction' to this situation as akin to a 'lynch mob'. To you, perhaps, but there seem to be sufficient folk on here who do understand exactly what I have been trying to do. I can see a clear difference between the two scenarios, so I'm sorry that you appear to be having difficulties understanding my contributions here. It may be that I haven't used precisely the most appropriate vocabulary or phraseology to get the meaning across at times. I have to agree with you on a number of points that you have risen in this thread as well as its more infamous counterpart, whilst I do not condone the actions of a certain individual I can understand that there may be a number of reasons why they have got themselves into that situation. The constant and rather nasty personal attacks that have been unleashed upon that person on this forum would have had some rather negative side effects on their personality. It's rather farcical when you see some people stating that the model rail community is full of friendly and supportive people, yet in the next sentence they are frothing at the mouth like a rabid Rottweiler wanting to tear the individual from limb to limb. The reaction of people put into that situation can vary but at the end of the day will be negative, some may suffer from depression which also make go into a state of self isolation, or there is the other when the person decides to diregard what people say and will fight back with a screw you attitude. To me the greatest tragedy here is the fact that a once well known and cherished brand will be lost with no likelihood of ever returning to me that is what will be the greatest loss to the hobby, the ease of construction as well as the ability to kitbash their wagon range into so many different variants using components such as Self Contained Buffers from other manufacturers will be sorely missed. The sad thing here is there are a number of people who would quite gladly see that business disappear, either out of spite or the fact that it eliminates some of the competition for their products. That said I don't want to be involved in any flame wars here, I am just trying to get people to maybe use a bit of reasoning and try and understand what has lead to this predicament, I hope for all parties involved that a positive outcome can be reaches but in the current environment I doubt it is possible. Also a disclaimer here I am not the owner of a certain business, though there are a number of people who were speculating that, I live far to south of the equator to qualify for that role. Edited January 1, 2018 by David Stannard 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Funny when I googled your name and it came up with Taunton. Coincidence? Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stannard Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Funny when I googled your name and it came up with Taunton. Coincidence? Jason I can surely tell you that I have never set foot in the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2018 If a post looks like it’s from a troll and reacts like a troll, the chances are... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Something very wrong has happened with Coopercraft and people have been owed money for some time for goods not supplied. There are others who agree with me that mental health could be an issue. Are you saying that you aren't interested in understanding fully why that has happened? Because - in my opinion (and that of some others I am aware of on this forum) - the reaction has been excessively intemperate. Yes, indeed, who knows indeed what issues any individual is dealing with? Including Paul Dunn, for example, who, it seems clear, is definitely having to deal with some kind of issue(s) or other. The 'overly intemperate' reactions that I have criticised only apply to a small number of those, who have posted comments expressing concern or upset about Mr Dunn. Yet their tone has been sufficient for someone other than me to describe the 'communal reaction' to this situation as akin to a 'lynch mob'. To you, perhaps, but there seem to be sufficient folk on here who do understand exactly what I have been trying to do. I can see a clear difference between the two scenarios, so I'm sorry that you appear to be having difficulties understanding my contributions here. It may be that I haven't used precisely the most appropriate vocabulary or phraseology to get the meaning across at times. I’m in total agreement with this post. Also the bullying that’s being metered out to Bill Bedford is completely unacceptable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stannard Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 If a post looks like it’s from a troll and reacts like a troll, the chances are... No troll, just an avid Great Western modeller that is sad to see the demise of a once great brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2018 Also a disclaimer here I am not the owner of a certain business, though there are a number of people who were speculating that, I live far to south of the equator to qualify for that role. Funny when I googled your name and it came up with Taunton. Coincidence? And now a conspiracy theory is added to the heady mix! Sure beats “Call the Midwife”! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) To be honest I don't think I've seen any real bullying of Bill. I just think that in the words of Sergeant Wilson "Do you think that's wise?" when it came to some of the comments made in the Coopercraft thread. Hence the "shooting yourself in the foot comments". I think as a manufacturer he maybe should have kept a distance. Difficult I know. Then some people started questioning his business practices. And he opened this thread. Would I still buy for Bill Bedford? Yes. Jason Edited January 1, 2018 by Steamport Southport 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) The constant and rather nasty personal attacks that have been unleashed upon that person on this forum would have had some rather negative side effects on their personality.iIt's rather farcical when you see some people stating that the model rail community is full of friendly and supportive people, yet in the next sentence they are frothing at the mouth like a rabid Rottweiler wanting to tear the individual from limb to limb. The reaction of people put into that situation can vary but at the end of the day will be negative, some may suffer from depression which also make go into a state of self isolation, or there is the other when the person decides to diregard what people say and will fight back with a screw you attitude. There was a reason you had your access to the CC topic taken away, part of it was blaming those that purchased in good faith but have since lost their money. To me the greatest tragedy here is the fact that a once well known and cherished brand will be lost And as posted before this range is already lost and has been since the purchase by P Dunn. CC has nothing at all to do with BB and should really be left out of this thread. . Also the bullying that’s being metered out to Bill Bedford is completely unacceptable. Can you provide a quote of the bullying please, I am unable to see any. Edited January 1, 2018 by chris p bacon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2018 I think the machines have now got a bit better in the past year, as far less instances of no or weak signals for the machines. But not just model railway shows, a hotel on an island in Poole Harbour, the receptionist had to take the machine to the window, a cafe in Heybridge where the waitress had to hold the machine up in the air. Another option for those who organise themselves is to pre-pay prior to the show, postage savings pays for the shows entrance fee Hi It's not just exhibitions. My wife went to white stuff just before Christmas, they could only accept cash as the card machine had broken and the engineer couldn't do anything until 9:30pm. Cheers Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2018 Can you provide a quote of the bullying please, I am unable to see any. Dave, shall we just leave this where it is, please? Some people see bullying/'lynch mob'/something beyond 'reasonable frustration' taking place and some people do not. I do see it, as do others (who have either posted to that effect or PM'd me separately), others (presumably including yourself?) do not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2018 There is no bullying of Bill Bedford. He started a thread which basically invited comments on how he conducts business. While some posts on this thread are not Mousa models fan boy threads neither were they bullying or nasty. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Dave, shall we just leave this where it is, please? Some people see bullying/'lynch mob'/something beyond 'reasonable frustration' taking place and some people do not. I do see it, as do others (who have either posted to that effect or PM'd me separately), others (presumably including yourself?) do not. I'm in danger of becoming a fan of the Captain! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I'm in danger of becoming a fan of the Captain! You mean you aren't already! Shame on you! P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2018 And now a conspiracy theory is added to the heady mix! Sure beats “Call the Midwife”! Just about anything beats "Call the Midwife" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) But Bill, I never claimed you to be either manufacturer (the Etcher) or retailer (the vendor). I simply asked what "input" you have to the range that currently carries your name for reasons clearly outlined in my earlier post. Your reply tries to give the impression that you no longer have anything to do with the Bill Bedford Models Brand and it would be solely the manufacturer's responsibility to correct any defects or errors that were reported to them. Would that be correct? Eileen's Emporium manufactures and markets the Bill Bedford range of etchings. All enquiries or complaints should be addresses to them. I have no knowledge or input into the day to day running of the range. All I would say is that the v.2 version of the etch is correct, as the graphic you posted shows. Re. the conflat L If the etch had been correct in the first place or corrected, it might not have been an average of just over one Conflat L kit a month you were selling . It may well have been two or three. Who knows? No, most of the sales were in the first few years. You are displaying the usual modeller's bias of believing that sales of items you, personally, are interested in are much greater than they actually are/could be. Edited January 1, 2018 by billbedford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2018 I think the machines have now got a bit better in the past year, as far less instances of no or weak signals for the machines. But not just model railway shows, a hotel on an island in Poole Harbour, the receptionist had to take the machine to the window, a cafe in Heybridge where the waitress had to hold the machine up in the air. Another option for those who organise themselves is to pre-pay prior to the show, postage savings pays for the shows entrance fee Afraid not. I experienced the same thing at Warley 6 weeks ago. A trader's connection went down and he could not reconnect. Fortunately I am of an age and disposition that I always carry a cheque book with me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 We're talking about current technology though. We don't know how quickly technology will change in the next few years. Ten years ago you wouldn't be looking at this site in it's current format. Most of us were even still on dial up only a few years ago. Remember when everyone was obsessed with pagers? Now I can sit in the pub and talk face to face with someone in Australia if I wanted to. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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