Warren Branch

[MrWolf]

Now that is definitely useful information.

[figworthy]

20 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

Thinking of something like this for the coal barge

 

 

Should be easy enough to draw but I can’t quite figure out what these are supposed to look like though

 

 

Also not sure of the construction wood or steel

 

 

It might be the photo, but the bollards look rather wide, but not much back to front.  I'd be inclined to go for something squarer.  Also, if you are towing from the bank (rather than by tug as shown in the pictures of the Thames lighters), it needs to be somewhere between 25% and 30% of the length of the vessel from the bow, otherwise you'll be tending to pull the bow into the bank all the time.

 

Adrian

[Schooner]

20 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

I can’t quite figure out what these are supposed to look like

If I may Chris, some options (using Thames lighters as a proxy cos I can lay my hands on decent pics, the fittings are good for you to base yours off but beware taking too much inspiration from the general form!) courtesy of Getty:

Open in new tab and zoom for full benefit. I love that last one :) Do they help show the fittings, placement and usage?

 

Long and short is wooden posts - square/rectangular in section - on wooden barges; steel - round in section and capped - on steel.

 

While I'm raiding Getty...

9 hours ago, Nick C said:

...butties (unpowered barges) looked pretty similar to any other working narrowboat...

'Cos butties are working narrowboats! Chris' barge, however, has a different - if related - heritage. Best pic I know showing the differences between boat and butty:

Very distinct stern and cabin shapes between the two, but fundamentally the same design for the same purpose from the same territory (see @figworthy's point on lock dimensions, above).

[moore43grm]

If you want something a bit different you could try a Tom Pudding :

[chuffinghell]

1 hour ago, figworthy said:

….In short, unless Warren Branch is a model of a real location, then the boats or barges on the canal can be of what ever size you like, providing they'll fit through the bridges and go around the corners.

 

Adrian

A lot of very useful and interesting information there, thank you
 

Fortunately Warren is 100% made up and as there are no visible locks on the layout I imagine I can get away with anything?

[figworthy]

Just now, chuffinghell said:

A lot of very useful and interesting information there, thank you
 

Fortunately Warren is 100% made up and as there are no visible locks on the layout I imagine I can get away with anything?

 

Pretty well, rule 1 applies.

 

But (is there always a but ?), Warren is a beautiful piece of work, and you seem to have spent a lot of time getting things to be "right", so having a boat/barge/lighter that fits into your time period, and is an inland (rather than estuary/coastal) vessel would be in keeping.  The example that you showed a page or so back, with the odd modification (well within your capabilities) would be OK.

 

Adrian

[chuffinghell]

1 hour ago, figworthy said:

 

It might be the photo, but the bollards look rather wide, but not much back to front.  I'd be inclined to go for something squarer.  Also, if you are towing from the bank (rather than by tug as shown in the pictures of the Thames lighters), it needs to be somewhere between 25% and 30% of the length of the vessel from the bow, otherwise you'll be tending to pull the bow into the bank all the time.

 

Adrian

Admittedly I just downloaded the image for ideas but again very useful and helpful info

 

52 minutes ago, Schooner said:

If I may Chris, some options (using Thames lighters as a proxy cos I can lay my hands on decent pics, the fittings are good for you to base yours off but beware taking too much inspiration from the general form!) courtesy of Getty:

Open in new tab and zoom for full benefit. I love that last one :) Do they help show the fittings, placement and usage?

 

Long and short is wooden posts - square/rectangular in section - on wooden barges; steel - round in section and capped - on steel.

 

While I'm raiding Getty...

'Cos butties are working narrowboats! Chris' barge, however, has a different - if related - heritage. Best pic I know showing the differences between boat and butty:

Very distinct stern and cabin shapes between the two, but fundamentally the same design for the same purpose from the same territory (see @figworthy's point on lock dimensions, above).

some great images, thank you. I’ll no doubt take inspiration from more than one image. The first image is particularly interesting because myself and @MrWolf have been discussing how low it would sit in the water unladen

 

36 minutes ago, moore43grm said:

If you want something a bit different you could try a Tom Pudding :

A great idea but I think it’s too late to make the changes necessary to achieve it 

[chuffinghell]

7 minutes ago, figworthy said:

 

Pretty well, rule 1 applies.

 

But (is there always a but ?), Warren is a beautiful piece of work, and you seem to have spent a lot of time getting things to be "right", so having a boat/barge/lighter that fits into your time period, and is an inland (rather than estuary/coastal) vessel would be in keeping.  The example that you showed a page or so back, with the odd modification (well within your capabilities) would be OK.

 

Adrian

the one I have will negotiate Warren canal without a problem….

 

 

….which is why I’m thinking of designing one similar in size, possibly slightly narrower, sitting much lower in the ‘water’ and a little more detail

 

It will be permanently moored though as I intend to add the ‘water’ with the barge in situ

 

 

[AlfaZagato]

Well, if rule 1 does apply, you could have yourself a Clyde Puffer...

[chuffinghell]

10 minutes ago, AlfaZagato said:

Well, if rule 1 does apply, you could have yourself a Clyde Puffer...

A puffer wouldn’t fit under the canal bridge unfortunately 

[Winslow Boy]

Chris there is an old canal near me and it has the remains of coal barges in it. From looking at your barge and the remains I would suggest you make your example have a more streamlined shape. Will try and get a photo to show you what I mean.

[MrWolf]

I get where you're coming from, the inland boats appear to have a more pointed shape to the bows.

[Schooner]

Dumb Barges Wot I've Known (but forgot about till just now) :

Pretty self explanatory, hope it's useful

[MrWolf]

I was going to say that a Schooner would never fit under that bridge...

 

But I think that you've found the answer.

There's a similar one on the Cromford canal that is used for clearing water weeds, fallen trees and junk.

[MrWolf]

Have a look at this one, I think it was a maintenance boat, but extend the hold like the second picture, the shape looks good.

 

https://cotswoldcanalsrestoration.co.uk/365-2/

 

 

[Schooner]

Forgive the meddling, but for everyone's ease

 

 

Great finds :)

[Schooner]

23 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

...a Schooner would never fit under that bridge...

Not twice anyway...

[chuffinghell]

I'd already started to draw something up based on the dimensions of the one I have

 

 

However following the comments.....

 

 

...The top sketch is based on the dimensions of the one I have, the lower sketch a different profile and 4mm narrower

 

I will await comments before drawing any further, if anyone has any other thoughts and wishes to sketch over the above it could be helpful

[Rowsley17D]

I'd go for a narrower option.

 

[Graham T]

What a load of bollards 🙂

 

I'd also go for the narrower version.

[chuffinghell]

couple of options

 

[longchap]

The first one looks more classically old fashioned with the vertical prow (if that's the correct word)

Edited October 19, 2022 by longchap

[chuffinghell]

Is it worth going any further?

 

[longchap]

I would be very happy with that Chris. Looks the job, functional and practical. Well done, your drawing work is superb.

[Schooner]

Either end is good, but I'd suggest picking one. Looking at the photos above it's clear that the barges are identical (or at least very similar) at each end. Already much improved on earlier options though!