Seven Mills Sidings, from TOPS to the POD, Page 169 and Bench Road, Stabling and Fuelling Point from Page 245

[tigerburnie]

You could poke them with a stick Andy(says he who has nomotorised points and could really do with some at one end of the station).

[westerhamstation]

Hi Andy, have you ever thought about doing The Great Model Railway Challenge that's on tv, you could do it by yourself over three days, build 3 layouts all in different scales and still have time to think about ripping it all up and starting again. All the best Adrian.

[Andrew P]

Hi Andy, have you ever thought about doing The Great Model Railway Challenge that's on tv, you could do it by yourself over three days, build 3 layouts all in different scales and still have time to think about ripping it all up and starting again. All the best Adrian.

Not into

 

Dinasors,

Dragons,

Darleks,

Dr Whatsit,

Mobile gimmicks,

is that enough reasons Adrian, hahhaha.

Plus I like my Tea Breaks and afternoon snooze.

 

I must admit that the thought of building three Layouts at the same time has some advantages.

After St Budoc in ''O'' I did Glenfinick in ''N'' and was working on our Clubs ''OO'' Layout all at the same time. C O N F U S I N G.

[Mulgabill]

Just been out to Tutbury Models and picked up a Gaugemaster Autofrog, as I have detected that when the Frog Wire is connected it occasionally shorts out the Motor, as I've had with others recently. but the actual Frog Polarity is switching correctly so it must be something inside the Motor, again as with previous ones.

 

If the Autofrog works well, then I will look at the Gaugemaster / Seep PM4 self latching Motors and the Peco Lever Frame as I had on Pencarne, Kings Moreton and others.

 

EDIT =  Just had a look at the PM4 and that one includes the Frog Polarity Switch built in as well. SORTED.

Glad you got it sorted Andy, cos that lot went right over my head. Glad I stuck with a wire (minus tube) to work mine - simples.

[woodenhead]

Don’t the Seeps wear out on the polarity as they use painted circuits.

 

Mind you, I doubt many home layouts would get enough punishment to wear them out

[MarshLane]

Yesterday I had a Visitor in the shpe of Jeff / Binny, and we had a little running session.

 

UNFORTUNATELY it was mared by loads of short circuits caused by the Points not throwing correctly, and then the short caused other points to throw, or half throw.

 

I've used the Traintronic TT300 Point Motors for several years, and always controlled via the DCC System, but this year I've had 3 failures that had to be returned, and I'm now having issues again with more than one.

 

I'm seriously considering taking them out and looking for some other form of Point action.

 

I will NOT be going down the Servo Route as I dodn't understand them.

 

I would also like to go back to a proper Lever Frame type operation, as opposed DCC Control or to a switch panel, and this is not possible with most slow motion Motors unless I want down the Modrotec Route, which again I looked at back in the days of the Bitton Project, and rejected.

 

A simple Point Motor, (snap type) and Autofrog from the likes of Gaugemaster may be the best route, but I'm in no rush to do this as I have my Welsh Adventure in a couple of weeks, so will work out some alternatives whilst away, and make some decisions then.

 

Time to finish my Mug of Tea and then venture outside, and have another look at what the problem might be.

 

 

Hi Andy,

I know you've said your not going down the Servo route (EDIT: having just looked up to check something and realised there were some posts after the one I've replied to, but I'd already typed all this by that time!!) but can I ask what it is you don't understand them?  

 

I am not trying to change your mind in anyway! But a normal point motor you apply power to onside the solenoid or motor moves, to reverse it you apply to the other side (or other terminal).  While the reality of how a servo works is very different, the actual wiring to us modellers is almost the same.  Take the mega points boards (there are other options, including Peco now I think). Think of the board as being the terminals on the bottom of a Tortoise or side of a Peco point motor.  You have two wires to move it one way, two wires to move it the other - all of which connect to push buttons on your panel.   The only difference is there is a connection from the mega points board to the servo (its actually three individual wires moulded together with a plug on each end) that just plugs in. You supply power to the Megapoints board and thats it.  Nothing complicated, and you don't have to run cables to the point motors with power.  The advantage of servo's is the cost (yes if you only want two or three its expensive, but above six I think I worked out its the same or cheaper) and you can set up the amount of throw in each direction, you don't have to, but will probably get more reliable operation if you do, but that is a simple push button technique.  Like I said at the start, not trying to change your mind, but it is simple to achieve.

 

On another topic, I know Harold at Modratec ... I've always been quite impressed with his frames - they take a bit of building, but they do seem to be reliable and good.  Do you mind if I ask why you discounted it?  Was it that you didnt like something or that the set up just didnt work for you?

 

Rich

Edited October 23, 2018 by MarshLane

[Andrew P]

Glad you got it sorted Andy, cos that lot went right over my head. Glad I stuck with a wire (minus tube) to work mine - simples.

Simples but fool proof and never a problem, STICK WITH EM MATE.

[Andrew P]

Don’t the Seeps wear out on the polarity as they use painted circuits.

 

Mind you, I doubt many home layouts would get enough punishment to wear them out

Yes, I have had some that have given that problem, but with the advent of the Autofrog, if any play up, I can simply un solder the 3 wires from the Motor, and attach them to an Autofrog in no time at all and problem solved.

[Andrew P]

Hi Andy,

I know you've said your not going down the Servo route (EDIT: having just looked up to check something and realised there were some posts after the one I've replied to, but I'd already typed all this by that time!!) but can I ask what it is you don't understand them?  

 

I am not trying to change your mind in anyway! But a normal point motor you apply power to onside the solenoid or motor moves, to reverse it you apply to the other side (or other terminal).  While the reality of how a servo works is very different, the actual wiring to us modellers is almost the same.  Take the mega points boards (there are other options, including Peco now I think). Think of the board as being the terminals on the bottom of a Tortoise or side of a Peco point motor.  You have two wires to move it one way, two wires to move it the other - all of which connect to push buttons on your panel.   The only difference is there is a connection from the mega points board to the servo (its actually three individual wires moulded together with a plug on each end) that just plugs in. You supply power to the Megapoints board and thats it.  Nothing complicated, and you don't have to run cables to the point motors with power.  The advantage of servo's is the cost (yes if you only want two or three its expensive, but above six I think I worked out its the same or cheaper) and you can set up the amount of throw in each direction, you don't have to, but will probably get more reliable operation if you do, but that is a simple push button technique.  Like I said at the start, not trying to change your mind, but it is simple to achieve.

 

On another topic, I know Harold at Modratec ... I've always been quite impressed with his frames - they take a bit of building, but they do seem to be reliable and good.  Do you mind if I ask why you discounted it?  Was it that you didnt like something or that the set up just didnt work for you?

 

Rich

Hi Rich, Thanks for your input and ideas etc.

 

Firstly the Servos, etc. I have 3 Points on one side of the Layout and 9 on the other side. out of the 9, I can control 3 from one switch, and a further two from another, so needing only 6 switches.

I don't like the idea of push buttons purely on the looks of a panel etc. and the idea of running cables from one side of the Layout around to the other, some 15 to 18 ft would be a nightmare.

With the Seep Motors / Switches, all I need is 2 wires from the 16V AC Transformer through each board, to the 3 Points on one side, and the 6 Frame on the other, or just buy a second Transformer for the other side of the Layout.

 

On the Modratec Lever Frame, it was the fact that it all comes in a box of bits, and I don't like Jigsaws, especially in Brass, plus you then need to buy and fit (NIGHTMARE IN ITSELF FOR ME) Micro Switches for the electronic side. again I would need 6 for one side of the Layout but only 3 for the other.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Andrew P

[Andrew P]

I did manage to almost finish the Level Crossing and do a trial fit this afternoon, they are still removable in order to get to work on scenic's beyont without breaking them.

 

Digital Controlled = Index Finger.

 

That Traveller does get around a bit.

 

 

 

 

[Andrew P]

Also today my second hand set arrived for the SignaTrak, I still need to re mount the Main Panel, as it's half hidden under the Road Bridge, and is difficult to read at that angle whem I'm sitting down.

 

[Andrew P]

And after sorting out the Points and fitting the Autofrog this morning, I had an intence running session at Dore End, and shuffled a load of stock around and back to Seven Mills with no Point / Short / Overload issues at all, so very please.

 

 

[MarshLane]

Hi Rich, Thanks for your input and ideas etc.

 

Firstly the Servos, etc. I have 3 Points on one side of the Layout and 9 on the other side. out of the 9, I can control 3 from one switch, and a further two from another, so needing only 6 switches.

I don't like the idea of push buttons purely on the looks of a panel etc. and the idea of running cables from one side of the Layout around to the other, some 15 to 18 ft would be a nightmare.

With the Seep Motors / Switches, all I need is 2 wires from the 16V AC Transformer through each board, to the 3 Points on one side, and the 6 Frame on the other, or just buy a second Transformer for the other side of the Layout.

 

On the Modratec Lever Frame, it was the fact that it all comes in a box of bits, and I don't like Jigsaws, especially in Brass, plus you then need to buy and fit (NIGHTMARE IN ITSELF FOR ME) Micro Switches for the electronic side. again I would need 6 for one side of the Layout but only 3 for the other.

Untitled.png

 

Hi Andy,

Yea fair point (excuse the pun!!), I can see where your coming from.  Servo's are a good option when you can group 6-8 together but in small numbers they can incur extra overheads.  In terms of the buttons, there are options such as a rotary selector, then one push button to 'fire' the points, but that one all comes down to personal preference.  At the end of the day, its always a go with what your happiest and comfortable with, and what works for one, won't necessarily work for another!  Modratec do an option for the microswitches now, so they come as part of the kit, if I remember rightly, and also a halfway house option between full kit and fully built, but still things to do and at an increased cost of course.  Your thoughts on the Peco levers may well be the best going forward!

 

I did manage to almost finish the Level Crossing and do a trial fit this afternoon, they are still removable in order to get to work on scenic's beyont without breaking them.

 

Digital Controlled = Index Finger.

 

That Traveller does get around a bit.

 

Are you sure the chap in that traveller isn't working for Hermes or Tesco home delivery?  He seems to spend an awful lot of time around that crossing ... course there is an outside chance that he could just be a railway enthusiast I suppose

 

Keep up the good work mate.

 

Rich

[tender]

Hi Andy, i've been using the Gaugemaster Autofrog since they first came out. Not had any problems with them at all. Does the job at a fraction of the price of frog juicer.

[Fastdax]

That Traveller does get around a bit.

 

 

Certainly does.

 

[Andrew P]

Cheers Guys, I recon the Traveller Driver must work for the BR Inspectorate.

[Banger Blue]

Just a thought Andy but looking at the pics above of the crossing gates, when they are closed against rail traffic to let road vehicles cross, should the red circles not be facing outwards towards any oncoming train movement?

[Andrew P]

Not according to the pictures on the box, I'll re look at it.

 

Cheers.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Andrew P

[Banger Blue]

Not according to the pictures on the box, I'll re look at it.

s-l300.jpg

 

Cheers.

Don't bother Andy, I wasn't 100% sure myself, it was just one of those nagging brain farts. I've just searched on Flickr for Level Crossing Gates (perhaps I should have done that first ) and they are all as you have yours, red disc facing ROAD traffic.

[Andrew P]

Don't bother Andy, I wasn't 100% sure myself, it was just one of those nagging brain farts. I've just searched on Flickr for Level Crossing Gates (perhaps I should have done that first ) and they are all as you have yours, red disc facing ROAD traffic.

 

Cheers Dougie, Thanks for that.

[Jintyman]

I did manage to almost finish the Level Crossing and do a trial fit this afternoon, they are still removable in order to get to work on scenic's beyont without breaking them.

 

Digital Controlled = Index Finger.

 

That Traveller does get around a bit.

IMG_6091.JPG

 

IMG_6092.JPG

 

IMG_6093.JPG

 

IMG_6094.JPG

 

 

Well it is a Traveller after all...................................................................................

 

The crossing gates look really well Andy, you don't half get a shift on with things. It just seems to come together for you really quickly!

 

Jinty

[Donw]

Andy 

glad you have resolved your point motor problem. Not suggesting you should change but for the benefit of others considering their options, there is no problem with using a lever frame with with either servos or slow motion tortoise types. 

I have purchased three of the scalefour lever frames to make up and suitable microsswitches to fit to each lever. For servos the megapoint unit can drive twelve servos a simple on off switch for each servo  will switch the servo between two settings. For the tortoise motors I have used a simple changeover to supply either positive or negative half cycles with a common return. Of course you do need to build the lever frame. There is always a snag.  You could always use a simple row of swithces.

 

The autofrog looks useful if you have peco points and the blades contacts are dodgy  that would fix it. Handy if you operate them by hand. sadly it will only work on DCC.

 

Don

[Donw]

Just a thought Andy but looking at the pics above of the crossing gates, when they are closed against rail traffic to let road vehicles cross, should the red circles not be facing outwards towards any oncoming train movement?

 

The  red circles are there to warn the normally open route when the gates are closed. In the early days of railways there was less road traffic and what there was was slow horse driven so the red circles were set to warn the faster moving rail traffic. The gates then were normally left open for rail traffic and only closed when needed for road crossing. 

With the rise of motor traffic and the increasing volume of road traffic it became the norm to leave the gates normally open  for road traffic and only close them when a train was due so the red cirrcles were changed to warm road traffic that the gates were closed.

 

Don

[Andrew P]

Well it is a Traveller after all...................................................................................

 

The crossing gates look really well Andy, you don't half get a shift on with things. It just seems to come together for you really quickly!

 

Jinty

 

Thanks mate, actually it feels very slow to me, I see jobs I think should be done by now, and there not.

 

Still a day off today, as I'm going to my Art Club this morning, and maybe also Friday as it's our Clubs O Gauge Running and Fish and Chip lunch.

[Andrew P]

Andy 

glad you have resolved your point motor problem. Not suggesting you should change but for the benefit of others considering their options, there is no problem with using a lever frame with with either servos or slow motion tortoise types. 

I have purchased three of the scalefour lever frames to make up and suitable microsswitches to fit to each lever. For servos the megapoint unit can drive twelve servos a simple on off switch for each servo  will switch the servo between two settings. For the tortoise motors I have used a simple changeover to supply either positive or negative half cycles with a common return. Of course you do need to build the lever frame. There is always a snag.  You could always use a simple row of swithces.

 

The autofrog looks useful if you have peco points and the blades contacts are dodgy  that would fix it. Handy if you operate them by hand. sadly it will only work on DCC.

 

Don

Thanks Don for the info.

 

IIRC it was you that showed me the Scalefour Frames back in the Bitton days, but as I say, it's a bit complicated for me I think.

 

The Gaugemaster Autofrog will work with any DCC Point, and can be hand or motorised for action as the Autofrog is separate from the switching.

 

I will continue with my current set up until I return from Wales, mid November, then re evaluate things again then.