Accurascale Class 55 Deltic - 4mm scale

[PJ10]

 Me to. At 5.21 this morning. Somebody must be an early riser. I've sent an e-mail back.

 

PJ10

 

 

Just received an e-mail response from Stephen - McC on here . Looks like invoice reminders were sent out in error this morning. This has now been disabled. He confirmed that "Payments are entirely at your discretion and convenience, and don’t fall due until we are ready to ship, but you are welcome to make periodic payments if it suits!"

 

PJ10

[PJ10]

Hi Only two purchased for now:

• 55 002 in 2 tone green circa 1981
• 55 022 in Blue, silver grills, etc again circa 1981

However Tulyar or Ballymoss might be getting added. But I'd really like 55009 in 1981 condition - I have fond memories of the Grampian Deltic Railtour 

 

PJ10

[37114]

So which model(s) is everyone going for?

My layout is set in 1977 so I have 55001 ordered but will renumber into 55015. I am also likely to order another one to renumber as 55009, and dependant on the nose step either 55022 or yet another 55001 to renumber as 55022.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 I am potentially in for an all-green nameplateless 'just into service' specimen or two as the arrival of these and D1500 in 1962 is the uptime limit of my time travel survey which  begins with all steam operation in the mid fifties, presaging the imminence of THE END.

 

I too am very happy with the stream of information from the Accurascale team, and am particularly hoping to read more about the plans to deal with scale diameter wheelsets inside an overall accurately reproduced body form. Simple geometry makes this incompatible with R2 capability, So the designer has to make a decision on the compromise that will be adopted.

 

The present benchmark in my opinion is Bachmann's compromise of raising a scale body above scale bogies and wheelsets to obtain the necessary clearance on longer model subjects, so that there is no fouling of the wheeltops inside the bodysides as the bogies swing out for smaller radius curves. The owner prepared to alter the model can by a fairly simple modification obtain a scale model, with the body riding at the correct height above the bogies, and the scale diameter wheelset axles centred on the axleboxes: if able to accept the restriction of a minimum radius on OO track of circa 30". Accurascale could if they choose advance on this, by designing the mechanism to enable the body to be easily raised or lowered (reversibly) relative to the bogies. I believe this is the best plan, not least because for the EM and P4 versions, there will be an expectation that the wheel diameter is scaled correctly, and let the minimum radius requirement fall where it will (even larger than in OO!).

 

 

The Bachmann 40 is an adequate, but not an especially good model...

 Which some of us would say represents the adequate but not especially good prototype rather well. Whereas the Bachmann production Deltic looks second rate (especially so when alongside the DP1 model by the same manufacturer for the NRM) while the real item remains the only significant specimen amongst the many traction classes that displaced the steam locomotive in the UK, that really had any excitement about it. Imposing appearance, wondrous selection of sound effects when the engines were running. (Runner up, the horribly unreliable and short lived insanity that was the Baby Deltic.)

 

...Running qualities, due to pick ups and pony trucks with a mind of their own, could be improved on big time....

That was a weird 'shoot yourself in the foot' job, as Bachmann's mk1 effort with simple self cleaning and easily user accessible pick up wipers bearing on the wheelbacks never falters in pick up, and all wheels stay on rails at all times. That's based on just three samples. one my own and two with a friend, but since this was Bachmann's standard and reliable pick up technique throughout their range at the time, is likely to be representative of general performance. (Who's for 'simple and proven' in preference to design changes of the 'solution looking for a non-existent problem' class?)

[owentherail]

Am I wishing my life away looking forward to when these are out? ordered 55005 but will get a FP white framed one later

[McC]

I wasn't thinking about getting another deltic as i already got one but i may get the Purple Deltic as it is unusual and i don't know that there was such a livery put on one and also to support Accurascale with this project. 

 

Also will this be the only batch to contain the purple deltic or could it be produced in the future after they have sold out from the first batch?

 

Samuel

 

 

Hard to tell at this point, but this isn't a 'one off' or a special run, so we hope to have ongoing availability and future runs of the fleet in various versions and guises.

[75B]

So which model(s) is everyone going for?

Ordered BR Blue 9021 as a pre-TOPS loco with ETH to haul my Mk2f’s (just fits in my modelling period of 1960 to 1973 as it was renumbered 55021 January 1974).

 

Keith

[RBAGE]

Ordered BR Blue 9021 as a pre-TOPS loco with ETH to haul my Mk2f’s (just fits in my modelling period of 1960 to 1973 as it was renumbered 55021 January 1974).

 

Keith

Only just a fit. The Mk2F build started in 1973.

[Gilbert]

Only just a fit. The Mk2F build started in 1973.

Rule 1 applies...

[75B]

Rule 1 applies...

Only just Rule 1; my 1976 livery HST really is Rule 1!

 

Keith

[RBAGE]

Only just Rule 1; my 1976 livery HST really is Rule 1!

 

Keith

And on the South East and Chatham.

[Silver Sidelines]

Thanks 34C

 

I have a similar time scale.

 

., So the designer has to make a decision on the compromise that will be adopted..

 

Reading the preceeding comments I do wonder whether people understand that all models require compromises.  Bachmann chose to go one way, Accurascale are choosing another route.  This thread reads a bit like the 'Kings suite of new clothes'.  The Dynamometer car was very good - so here's hoping.

 

Ray

Edited December 1, 2018 by Silver Sidelines

[No Decorum]

I wasn't thinking about getting another deltic as i already got one but i may get the Purple Deltic as it is unusual and i don't know that there was such a livery put on one and also to support Accurascale with this project. 

 

Also will this be the only batch to contain the purple deltic or could it be produced in the future after they have sold out from the first batch?

 

Samuel

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=porterbrook+deltic&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=-yFLhVzvBnXrPM%253A%252CRo8zDpiVra5BuM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kQvM3ToQX_Ej4LBgu76qTmzbeL-Dw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsgJLczP_eAhXBDuwKHVpGA6kQ9QEwCXoECAMQCA#imgrc=-yFLhVzvBnXrPM:

[JSpencer]

And on the South East and Chatham.

That is easy. just do the Bluebell railway. 4 preserved Deltics appeared on the line which has 6 SECR locos.

In fact this is what I intend to do. (Changing jobs at the moment which is delaying my order).

[Flying Pig]

Thanks 34C

 

I have a similar time scale.

 

 

 

Reading the preceeding comments I do wonder whether people understand that all models require compromises.  Bachmann chose to go one way, Accurascale are choosing another route.  This thread reads a bit like the 'Kings suite of new clothes'.  The Dynamometer car was very good - so here's hoping.

 

Ray

Well, we don't know yet which way Accurascale are going - hence 34C lobbying for them to adopt the same compromise as Bachmann regarding bogie swing.

 

The problem with the Bachmann Deltic is not, however, necessary compromise but unforced errors in the shape, which the Accurascale model appears to have avoided judging by both the CAD render and 3D prototype. Those errors are of more or less importance to different viewers, which is where subjectivity comes in, but they are there whether you care about them or not.

 

Isn't the Dynamometer car a Rapido product?

[Silver Sidelines]

.Isn't the Dynamometer car a Rapido product?

Oops

[JSpencer]

I too am very happy with the stream of information from the Accurascale team, and am particularly hoping to read more about the plans to deal with scale diameter wheelsets inside an overall accurately reproduced body form. Simple geometry makes this incompatible with R2 capability, So the designer has to make a decision on the compromise that will be adopted.

ss?)

Heljan already resolved the issue of having scale diameter wheels, plus correct ride height plus R2 capability. Below are 2 pictures comparing Heljans DP2 with Bachmann's Deltic. Basically Heljan used narrow profile wheels and thinned out the body thickness where the wheels would arrive. It works.

I can only guess Accurascale's solution will be similar.

The only let down was that Heljan made the bogie frames too narrow, especially as they did not need too. This model was rushed (one year between announce and it appearing in the shops), maybe because Dapol announced one just before them (which was then cancelled).

The third photo is Dapol's 73, just to show how high Bachmann's Deltic sits.

 

Heljan DP2 left, Bachmann Deltic right

 

Bachmann Deltic left, Heljan DP2 right (ignore the 58 far right)

 

Dapol 73 vs Bachmann Deltic - see how high the latter sits.

Edited December 1, 2018 by JSpencer

[Accurascale Fran]

Heljan already resolved the issue of having scale diameter wheels, plus correct ride height plus R2 capability. Below are 2 pictures comparing Heljans DP2 with Bachmann's Deltic. Basically Heljan used narrow profile wheels and thinned out the body thickness where the wheels would arrive. It works.

I can only guess Accurascale's solution will be similar.

The only let down was that Heljan made the bogie frames too narrow, especially as they did not need too. This model was rushed (one year between announce and it appearing in the shops), maybe because Dapol announced one just before them (which was then cancelled).

The third photo is Dapol's 73, just to show how high Bachmann's Deltic sits.

Heljan DP2 left, Bachmann Deltic right

image.jpg

Bachmann Deltic left, Heljan DP2 right (ignore the 58 far right)

image.jpg

Dapol 73 vs Bachmann Deltic - see how high the latter sits.

image.jpg

Hi John,

 

I believe that this has been pointed out elsewhere in this topic and I am loathe to speak ill of another companies product but the DP2 solution is a complete non-runner as it distorts the whole body shape of the locomotive as a result. The body of a Deltic (and DP2) tapers at either end just before the cabside doors, and the DP2 model does not depict this most distinctive of body features correctly as a result of this feature you are championing. Therefore, it looks very wrong when you look at it from above and the sides. I would suggest reading the relevant thread on here for further information and I’m sure you will then accept why it’s a non-runner for us.

 

All I will say at this juncture is that we are working on a cunning plan in this area, which will take a lot of working with the factory and when we have the acceptable results and engineering, we will show it.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

Edited December 2, 2018 by 071

[No Decorum]

Kernow had a cunning plan when making Bulleid’s diesels. The wheels aren’t attached to the bogie – the two assemblies move independently.

 

I am sure Accurascale couldn’t possibly comment. 

[ColinK]

Have to say the post by Accurascale two post above give me great confidence in their deltic.

 

Would still like them to add a unnamed/unnumbered option to save me having to remove their numbers and nameplates.

[JSpencer]

Hi John,

I believe that this has been pointed out elsewhere in this topic and I am loathe to speak ill of another companies product but the DP2 solution is a complete non-runner as it distorts the whole body shape of the locomotive as a result. The body of a Deltic (and DP2) tapers at either end just before the cabside doors, and the DP2 model does not depict this most distinctive of body features correctly as a result of this feature you are championing. Therefore, it looks very wrong when you look at it from above and the sides. I would suggest reading the relevant thread on here for further information and I’m sure you will then accept why it’s a non-runner for us.

All I will say at this juncture is that we are working on a cunning plan in this area, which will take a lot of working with the factory and when we have the acceptable results and engineering, we will show it.

Cheers!

Fran

Thanks Fran,

 

The DP2 body does look deformed in many areas. I doubt that this is entirely due to the need for R2 curves, though it probably contributed. Heljan can be hit or miss in their models and this was a miss for sure. And I feel they rushed this model maybe to beat Dapol whom had announced one a few months before.

My feeling is that of the three solutions seen so far, Heljans offers the best hope, but entirely agree we don,t want a solution that deforms the body or raises it too high or gives far too small wheels. I can think of a few small refinements but I,m confident Accurscale's expertise will by light years ahead of us.

The issue is compounded somewhat by the shear length of the loco meaning a good degree of up and down play is required for inclines and track undulations too.

 

Kernow had a cunning plan when making Bulleid’s diesels. The wheels aren’t attached to the bogie – the two assemblies move independently.

 

I am sure Accurascale couldn’t possibly comment. 

That was indeed an excellent solution for the Bulleid diesel and would work perfectly well on a 40 or peak. The bug bear with the Deltics is that the tops of the wheels go above the bogies and into the body which is not the case with the Bulleid. The Bulleid problem being long bogies fitted with buffers and very little ride hight between the Buffer beam and the cab body.

 

Apparently these 20th century real world loco designers gave little thought to 21st century RTR manufacturers!

[brushman47544]

And on the South East and Chatham.

Pinza worked on the South Eastern in a railtour called The Man of Kent. Can’t recall the date but I’m sure it’s on SixBells Junction.

Edited December 2, 2018 by brushman47544

[No Decorum]

That was indeed an excellent solution for the Bulleid diesel and would work perfectly well on a 40 or peak. The bug bear with the Deltics is that the tops of the wheels go above the bogies and into the body which is not the case with the Bulleid. The Bulleid problem being long bogies fitted with buffers and very little ride hight between the Buffer beam and the cab body.

 

Apparently these 20th century real world loco designers gave little thought to 21st century RTR manufacturers!

I wonder. Recesses (wheel arches) in the body to accommodate the wheels. Then a cam arrangement to lift the loco body on curves tight enough to cause a problem. We shall see.

 

Did I read somewhere on RMweb that the people working on Merl Evans sited lights in such a way as to reduce the re-tooling Bachmann had to do? Most considerate!

[37114]

 

Did I read somewhere on RMweb that the people working on Merl Evans sited lights in such a way as to reduce the re-tooling Bachmann had to do? Most considerate!

Not quite, Bachmann tooled up a new nose for the higher headlight position but HNRC fitted a square headlight, which made the job easier. The round headlight was removed when 37099 was sold, I know this as I bought one of them.

[ColinK]

A simpler solution would be to make the tops of the wheel flat so they wouldn’t protrude into the body

 

Would be fine for those who collect models, but no use for those of us who actually run them

Edited December 2, 2018 by ColinK