Bachmann 2019 Speculation

[John M Upton]

If people are wanting re-tooled class 37 or 47 I'll wishlist all new Bachmann class 26 or 33.

 

Again not needed. Nothing fundamental wrong with the Heljan versions (later tooling in the case of the 33).

[steve1023]

Again not needed. Nothing fundamental wrong with the Heljan versions (later tooling in the case of the 33).

That is your opinion, not mine.

[7013]

Whatever Bachmann Announce in the coming month, we can expect to see a CAD in about six years

[Marcoblanco]

I'd have to disagree, the current Bachmann 37 is fine. If any retooling is proposed I'd prioritise a flush front sealed beam Class 45, which really needs to be pushed up the agenda. If the rumours are true and the moulds got damaged after the one off limited edition was made, then it's due an appointment in the tooling shed and pronto. The few that make it to thiefBay fetch stupid prices so there is a proven market.

 

I'm not sure trying for millimetre microscopic perfection on the 37 can be a higher need than the huge gaping hole that is the flush front 45.

Pretty much like their 66 then, all fine

[The Johnster]

The 94xx is hardly big, and I don't see why it's any more difficult/expensive to do than the 64xx already made, or an all-new J72/G5/1P for that matter.

 

If Bachmann ever get to the stage that they can't produce an inside cylinder 0-6-0T at a price that won't scare off too many punters, I reckon it'll be game over. 

 

I know Bachmann cancelled the S15, but that was to avoid duplication with Hornby, and most of the really big tender locos have been covered by them already.

 

Having neglected to update the biggish tender locos they already made for far too long, Bachmann lost the Lord Nelson and many expect the Manor to go the same way imminently. If so, Bachmann will soon run out of well-known potential subjects with more than eight wheels. IMHO, they left the V2 longer than was prudent, too. 

 

Some serious strategic thinking is required at Barwell, I think, but their (apparent) geographical prejudices of the past may well have cost them dearly.

 

John

 

A 94xx is a significantly more complex shape than a 64xx, with a taper boiler, tanks that stop halfway along the smokebox, and a lot more detail beneath them on the footplate to worry about.  The rep I spoke to at Thornbury back in May inferred that some difficulty may have been encountered getting it right than had been expected, one of the reasons for the delay; the comment was something on the lines of 'it's not just a simple box shape, you know' (actually, I did know that, but to be fair there was obviously a limit to how much he was willing to make definitive statements about to the likes of me).  Bachmann are under a good bit of pressure with this release, which I haven't made any easier for them if they read this forum.  It has to be right first time, and be a quantum shift of improvement over the Lima and Grafar RTRs of years gone by.  

 

They are a fairly safe pair of hands in this respect, and I'm expecting great things of this model; it should run very well indeed and be detailed and finished to a very high standard.  But it's currently priced at £125, which is new territory for an RTR 0-6-0 tank engine, and the howls of complaint if it fails to cut the mustard in any way will be deafening.  

[The Johnster]

Interesting looking at both the Bachmann and Hornby speculation threads.

 

Bachmann started on 18/12, 8 pages at the time of posting this.

Hornby started on 14/12, 18 pages.

 

Ok the Hornby thread has run for four days longer, but there seems more inclination to speculate there, perhaps because the expectation is that Hornby’s announcements will appear in the shops much earlier than Bachmann’s. Bachmann does after all announce new models much earlier in the development process. Does interest wane when we know we’ll have a very long wait?

 

That's a thought.  But as a fully paid up member of the '94xx brigade', I'd say that constant reminders of their obligation to produce models they've promised do no harm and sustain interest, hopefully to the benefit of the model's sales when it does appear.

[Dunsignalling]

Pretty much like their 66 then, all fine

Bachmann have proved, more than once, that they are rather slow to recognise when they need to upgrade their existing models. Even when a decision is made they take ages to get revised models to market. Take the Ivatt 2MT tank, for example. Unaltered body with a new chassis, and 99% of that (everything bar the main casting) was already underneath the tender version. What should have been easily achievable in a few months took as many years.

 

TBF, Bachmann's models were/are generally as good or better than the opposition when first introduced, and there isn't much that's intrinsically bad about most of them, it's just that "the possible" is a moving target that moves ever faster.

 

Anything that hasn't been revisited in ten or twelve years for a steam outline prototype and half that for a diesel or electric has to be considered vulnerable to competition these days. Not just from Hornby/Heljan/Dapol, but also the various new entrants and commissioners/ex-commissioners, all of whom seem to be quicker on their feet than Bachmann.

 

The pool in which Bachmann swim is becoming more crowded and being one of the larger fish won't help if all the small ones are piranhas.

 

Digits need to be extracted, and PDQ if Bachmann are to stay in the game at anything like the level to which we are accustomed.

 

John

Edited December 26, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[TravisM]

I genuinely feel that Bachmann should follow both Hornby’s and Athearn’s lead with Hornby’s “Railroad” budget range and Athearn’s “Genesis” Premium range for their older models and give a clear coding as to which is which. There’s still money to be made on their older models which would please those on a budget or not really bothered and would please those who prefer the high end market as they could concentrate on the higher priced models.

 

I wish Hornby would put something like “RR” on their codes for Railroad products so when looking at a catalogue or online listing, you can tell the difference which isn’t always possible at first glance. Athearn’s put a G in front of theirs so you know which is which.

[Neal Ball]

Interesting catching up with this thread again.

 

It seems overwhelmingly people are saying Diesel or electric, with a smattering of steam.

 

But the overriding issue is the Bachmann delays. Its not that long ago, when that was Hornby, something new would be announced and everyone was saying “it will be here in 6 years time” clearly that situation has reversed. But also, so has the level of communication these days.

 

Hornby seem to be winning on all fronts. Still not perfect, but beating Blue box.....

 

I wonder if it’s a UK issue, or a problem for all the Kader companies.

 

If the delays / lack of enthusiasm for them continues and/ or we see new entrants sweeping up, will Bachmann continue to be such a dominate force in the market.

 

Clearly I hope they are able to get out of the mire and start bringing product to market quicker.

[66738]

 

As Bachmann have been re-tooling their older coaching stock, my guess would be a re-tool of the Mark 1 suburban coaches.

From a manufacturing point of view, a class 104 would make sense, as the tooling could also include a the front end for a class 110, which had an identical body but was fitted with the 4 character head code box.

The 110 would not be a straight body swap with the 104 as the 110 has saloon window frames which would complicate things unfortunately.

66738

Edited December 25, 2018 by 66738

[Ian Hargrave]

It might help if you read Andy Y’s ultimate post on the topic above concerning Bachmann’s current production difficulties

 

Bachmann have a new PR man in place replacing Dennis Lovett.This forum has enjoyed good communication with Barwell over many years and I see no reason for this to change

 

 

 

A good Christmas for one and all.

[Perfect Paul]

It might help if you read Andy Y’s ultimate post on the topic above concerning Bachmann’s current production difficulties

 

Bachmann have a new PR man in place replacing Dennis Lovett.This forum has enjoyed good communication with Barwell over many years and I see no reason for this to change

 

 

 

A good Christmas for one and all.

To be fair, having met and spoken to Richard Proudman, I think that Bachmann have chosen a Good candidate to continue Dennis Lovetts hard work.

 

I'm sure that the lines of communication will be kept open to us all, as long as the bosses at Bachmann support Richard in his work.

[brushman47544]

Do we really need another new tool 37 or 47? I think not, the market and the disposable income just isn't there. I am not even convinced there is enough of a market to support another Deltic in OO either.

 

Agree there are other higher priorities than all newly tooled 37 or 47, but I really do wish that Bachmann would retool it’s early Class 47 cabs to remove the rivets from the front windows and to get the cab door window shape correct.

[mdvle]

Agree there are other higher priorities than all newly tooled 37 or 47, but I really do wish that Bachmann would retool it’s early Class 47 cabs to remove the rivets from the front windows and to get the cab door window shape correct.

 

It's not a question of higher priorities, it is a matter of money.

 

Yes, most of the models made can (with time) have multiple runs made from the same tooling.  But, there are a handful of models that were so common that they can generate many multiple productions runs on a more frequent basis, and these models can provide a nice source of cash flow to help finance the up-front costs of new models each year.

 

In the diesel market the obvious choices are the 37, 47, and 66 - many liveries, numerous real things.

 

The danger, as demonstrated by Hattons with the 66, is if Bachmann (or Hornby for that matter) don't grab either/both of the 37 or 47 then one of the competitors will, and thus that competitor will benefit from that pretty much guaranteed cash flow possibility for the next decade.

[Great Western]

Bachman step into the O gauge arena, to rival Hornby and their hat bring thrown in a a few weeks...

[The Johnster]

As far as quality goes, Bachmann started from what was high point at the time with the Mainline/Replica heritage, which had been let down by poor chassis design and motors that protruded into the cabs; the body toolings were pretty good and difficult to improve on.  To their very great credit, B have continually improved them nonetheless as well as providing new chassis with running about as good as it is reasonable to expect from a mass produced RTR model.  Some models have not been improved for years now, and to be honest some of them don't need much improving.  If I'm buying on 'Bay, I look at the couplers; if they're NEM I can be pretty confident that the loco is well detailed and will run properly.  

 

There is nothing inherently superior in newer toolings, though they may save money or time (which is the same thing really) in the manufacturing or assembly process.  Assembly is probably the single most expensive stage of production, and the modern tendency is to have larger numbers of parts for those nimble fingered Chinese girls to put together, so costs are rising for this reason as well as higher wage demands which those girls deserve to get IMHO.  

 

To take examples, I have two 56xx 0-6-2Ts, both on current spec chassis but one is an ancient Mainline body from when they first came out, while the other is recent (couldn't say how recent, bought it on 'Bay) Bachmann.  The differences between them are remarkably few; the modern one has separately moulded lamp irons, handrails above the front steps, cab detail (the old one has this courtesy of it's modern chassis) and NEM dovetail, all things I have added to the old Mainline one anyway except the NEM mounts which also came with the new chassis.  The old Mainline body stacks up pretty well!

 

We live in a world in which we are constantly told by marketeers that new is better 'new, improved' this and that; maybe we take too much notice of this sometimes...

[John M Upton]

There seems to be a lot of clamering for retools of quite recent models from both the same and other manufacturers where little more than a revisit to correct minor issues if at all is warranted whilst other subjects more worthy of attention are ignored.

 

I find this very odd indeed...

[CUTLER2579]

I am a little surprised that there is no GCR tank loco to complement their very well selected D11/J11/O4 group. Pick your favourite, N5 or A5? They have in the past 'gone around the big four' with a wheel arrangement, and there is no LNER group 0-6-2T in their range, so possibly the N5 is the more likely.

 

But as others above: getting through the existing announcements has to be a priority. I can see the risk to Bachmann of another manufacturer 'picking off' the V2. There's now a shortage of big steam loco subjects that are both attractive and have large numbers in class, yet have a less than adequat

Hornby of course already have the tender for the V2 in their range and could soon have a Loco assuming the 2022 delivery of the Bachmann model.

Another LNER option would be the N1 and by the way there is the N2.

[johnd]

Any thing announced as new will have at least 2 annual price rises before they reach the shops. Personally I am thinking twice before buying because of the price riases. Even existing models seem to delayed (porthole coaches) till after price increases. How long have we been waiting for these coaches (yet to arrive) since the maroon versions were announced. I have sympathy for the small retailers and there cash flow because of this.

Edited December 25, 2018 by johnd

[Robin Brasher]

It looks like there is some resistance to the prices that Bachmann is charging with 31-128 30xx 2-8-0 ROD with the cycling lion emblem being reduced from £142.95 to £56 and 31-461A C class 0-6-0 in SR black being reduced from £124.95 to £86 in Hattons' sale of the century.

 

I would like Bachmann to produce a Bulleid Tavern Car and a Bulleid Bournemouth Restaurant set but I might wait until the next sale before buying one.

 

Great things come to those who wait.

[The Johnster]

It costs what it costs and I will pay up, though not always willingly, if I want it enough.  I do not think that the manufacturers are particularly ripping us off, or profiteering, and do not believe that price increases delay the introduction of models so that the firm can take advantage of them.  They are not charities, and in business to make profits for their shareholders firstly and foremost; keeping us happy is a secondary concern.  

 

The value of my railway and it's components is measured by me in terms that do not include anything as tawdry as money; my life is validated and improved by it to a degree that makes it money very very well spent indeed.  I am, perhaps because of my age and how used I am to taking advantage of cheap Chinese labour, taken aback by £20 wagons and £50 coaches as much as anyone, but on reflection think that their value for money, given their quality and realism, is phenomenal; long may it continue.  I can afford my small BLT and it's stock without injuring the cash supply to my other interests and obligations, despite being on a limited, fixed, and not that large income; unless prices exceed this level, which they are not in any immediate danger of doing, I will continue to maintain this attitude.

 

It has affected my buying, though, and I have been concentrating on locos (all bar one from Bachmann) for the whole of this year to ensure that I have acquired my stud before prices increase further; i shall be concentrating on coaches and coach kits in 2019!  The bad news for Bachmann is that they have nothing that I am interested in until the 94xx appears, unless they bring out a range of non-gangwayed GW coaches that are not a B set or auto trailers that are not A28/30s or A38s, which I'm not holding my breath for!                          

[Robin Brasher]

I agree with the last post but, since Hattons started discounting in the 1960s, I have normally bought items at a discount where this was available. When Bachmann first produced models they would not allow anyone to sell at a discount but I was pleased to pay the full price for what I needed for my layout.

[The Johnster]

It costs what it costs, but i've not paid list price for a new locomotive in the last 2 years since I've returned to the hobby; all mine are old ones with modern chassis, secondhand eBay, or discounts at my local model shop.  I have never bought a new locomotive by mail order, nor a coach or wagon for that matter.   So what it costs isn't always what it says it costs.  My luck'll probably run out with the Baccy 94xx which I've already ordered at the aforementioned shop, because I want them to have the trade, and I'll no doubt have to pay whatever Baccy are asking for it, but overall 10 out of 11 locomotives on a BLT that I've avoided full price on is not bad going.

[Melangoose]

Here we go again with speculation for 2019.

 

I personally think Bachmann should unlock the potential of their new mk2 air cons. Current liveried DRS, Scotrail (Solitaire), West Coast would be a good start for the upto date modeller. Maybe Scotrail, the single NSE example for the 80’s/90’s modeller. And also Virgin Trains, Anglia and Arriva for the noughties modeller.

Or they could do some very interesting train packs.

 

As far as new products are concerned are we going to see much, as with the recent factory move they still have much to do on previously announced models.

I do think that they could “box clever” and make the centre car for the class 205 (and only sell it as a 3 car pack), which would much increase sales of their Hampshire units.

[Robin Brasher]

Even more clever would be to sell the centre cars of the Hampshire demus separately so owners of the Kernow 2 car sets can update their models.