DJ Models Announcement 01/05/19

[Steamport Southport]

The LNER F5 was going to be a commission by the people building the new build. It wasn't a crowdfund product.

 

Cancelled due to a severe lack of interest.

 

 

Jason

[Edwardian]

15 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

B*gger, must remmnber to click EDIT not QUOTE when I want to edited - Sorry Andy Y, feel free to treat as rubbish

Edited May 8, 2019 by Edwardian

[Paul.Uni]

9 minutes ago, Covkid said:

That is interestin i thought the LSWR road van was a Kernow contracted project.

The OO gauge was a Kernow contracted project before they went direct to the factory. The N gauge model has always been a DJM project.

[grahame]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

N:

- Class 92                      DJM own brand . Crowd -funded. Pending - has CAD been shown?

- Shark brake van        DJM own brand. Self-funded???  Pending - no CAD yet??

- King                            DJM in collaboration with Digitrains . Pending - any crowd-funding? . CAD shown - claimed ready to tool

- APT-P                          DJM with Durham Trains of Stanley. Crowd-funded . Pending - 119 of 400 expressions of interest recieved at April 2019

- J94                               DJM own brand . Crowd-funded. Expressions of interest 

- 63xx                             DJM own brand . Expressions of interest . 236 of 1000 needed recieved at April 2019. How funded?

- Class 17                       DJM own brand - reached EP - stopped by dispute with factory . Registered design

- Class 23                       DJM own brand . Will follow Class 17

- HUO                             DJM own brand . Crowd funded . Pending???. Dropped??? "I don't think this is a go-er" - Sept 2018

 

Quite a long list

 

 

And even longer in fact. As well as the above DJM also announced the following in N gauge:

• Class 59 diesel (announced in 2014 along with Mogul, Ravens and Hudswell)
• Raven Q6 0-8-0
• Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0ST (it's still featured on his website)
• A bogie bolster wagon (as part of four self-funded wagons including the shark and mermaid)
• A SR road van (as part of four self funded wagons including the shark and mermaid)
• Several modernish cars (road vehicles)
• Mk5 coaches (he announced them, confirmed that he had been granted a licence and that the project was cancelled, all in one press release)
• Streamlined GW railcar (as a private commissioned/crowd funded project with DJM) 

The shark has also be shown as an EP version.

The king has been displayed as an overscale 3D print.

 

G.

 

 

[rab]

Although I haven't put any money into any DJM projects I have followed with interest the ups and downs of this business.

 

Having read through this thread it strikes me there is a certain irony in his initial statement.  He seems very concerned about HIS tooling, but not so much about the (pending) products which customers have, in part, paid for in advance. If it is that money which has been used in the product design and tooling, he might have done better to acknowledge that the tooling is the result of money already paid, and shown some concern for those who have paid it, instead of whinging on about his losses.

[Ravenser]

I've updated the original posting to reflect the info provided by The Stationmaster, adb968008, PaulCheffus, Edwardian, grahame et al.

 

I make it 31 undelivered projects across 3 scales. The list includes a number of cases where a collaboration has broken down and the partner has gone directly to a factory, or where a rival model has been announced .

 

I would frankly not be surprised if DJM's threatened 14 further registered designs includes CAD for many of those subjects , with the intention of creating a "blocking entry"

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ravenser

[raymw]

DJ's press release, afaik, never directly mentioned anything specific about his list of models. In his blog, for April, he gives a list of the current situation for his N-gauge models.It seems he is way under-subscribed on the first three items

N gauge APT Current orders of 118 of   400 needed. N gauge J94 current  orders of  112 of   800 needed. N gauge Mogul Current orders 236 of 1000 needed.  N gauge shark delivery November 19. N gauge Mermaids Delivery November 19. N gauge King minimum order number reached, tooling to commence imminently. N gauge class 92 tooling imminent. N gauge MK5 coaches licence granted. There are one or two later updates under his 'News'

[Covkid]

3 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said:

The OO gauge was a Kernow contracted project before they went direct to the factory. The N gauge model has always been a DJM project.

Thanks for the clarification.

It assumes then that Kernow were happy once their OO version was produced as a contract, for Dave to then shrink the CAD for DJM use.

[Covkid]

5 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

I've updated the original posting to reflect the info provided by The Stationmaster, adb968008, PaulCheffus, Edwardian et al.

 

I make it 29 undelivered projects across 3 scales. The list includes a number of cases where a collaboration has broken down and the partner has gone directly to a factory, or where a rival model has been announced .

 

I would frankly not be surprised if DJM's threatened 14 further registered designs includes CAD for many of those subjects , with the intention of creating a "blocking entry"

 

As a matter of interest,  was Hugh Flynn''s FTG models SPA wagon produced as a contract by Dave ? Just wondering. 

[Ravenser]

3 minutes ago, Covkid said:

Thanks for the clarification.

It assumes then that Kernow were happy once their OO version was produced as a contract, for Dave to then shrink the CAD for DJM use.

 

It seems that DJM believed they could generate several own brand projects in N gauge as spin off from a OO commission. 

 

This strengthens my concern that we could see repeats of the situation where DJM have registered as their registered design CAD for a subject which Kernow are producing in direct collaboration with the factory 

 

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine!"

[raymw]

If a crowd funded project is not fully subscribed, then I would expect the project not be started, and the deposits to be returned, since there has been little expenditure. However, if one uses the money from Peter to pay for Paul's work, then that is a serious problem. I'm guessing there is little written agreements - you're not mates when doing business.

[DavidH]

36 minutes ago, raymw said:

If a crowd funded project is not fully subscribed, then I would expect the project not be started, and the deposits to be returned, since there has been little expenditure. However, if one uses the money from Peter to pay for Paul's work, then that is a serious problem. I'm guessing there is little written agreements - you're not mates when doing business.

 

Interesting speculation - I've never seen any indication that each crowdfunder has had separate accounts set up. Was the APT money refunded from Dave's PayPal account, rather than e.g. DJM_APT@P..P..? There must be separate books though - I know I'd find it difficult to keep track otherwise.

Edited May 8, 2019 by DavidH

[David Stannard]

I don't know whats got more vitriol, the original post from DJM or the insurmountable wave of negativity in response, there seems to be a lot of speculation out there as to the future of certain projects and the viability of the business as a whole, I hope he is able to resolve these issues with the next "announcement" as it's getting rather ugly here.

[DavidH]

You must have a different definition of "vitriol" to the rest of us

[Willie Whizz]

2 hours ago, Ravenser said:

...
 

Quite a long list

 

Yes, and I think in the end that is the whole root of the problem - for a "one man band" he has, over the last few years, with this scattergun approach spread himself far,far too thin, whatever his early thoughts about his capability and capacity may have been.

 

Better to have concentrated all his energies and funding on half a dozen good, well-chosen projects and actually delivered on them.

[grahame]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

I've updated the original posting to reflect the info provided by The Stationmaster, adb968008, PaulCheffus, Edwardian, grahame et al.

 

I make it 31 undelivered projects across 3 scales. The list includes a number of cases where a collaboration has broken down and the partner has gone directly to a factory, or where a rival model has been announced .

 

I would frankly not be surprised if DJM's threatened 14 further registered designs includes CAD for many of those subjects , with the intention of creating a "blocking entry"

 

Apparently it was 5 N gauge wagons he announced in 2015 (not 4 as I mentioned). Here is Dave's announcement list including mentioning they have all been CAD/CAM designed and their tooling stage:

 

BIG NEWS!
Despite my saying for a few years now that I would not touch rolling stock due to it’s smaller return for quite a large outlay. However, I have done a deal with a new (for me) and respected factory, that currently makes for 3 very well known model railway companies (2 in mainland Europe) to produce 5 N gauge wagons at what I consider to be a very reasonable price.
It’s worth noting that all 5 have been cad/cam designed and 1 is, as I write, in the tool room with a release date for March 2016*.
These are noted on attached pages to this release, but I will list them here…………..
Shark 20t Plough van (Awaiting Tooling)
Mermaid Ballast wagon  (*in Tooling)
Turbot Bogie ballast wagon (final cad/cam design)
Bogie Boster E (final cad/cam design)
LSWR Road Van (Awaiting tooling)
 
Orders for these wagons can be taken by your DJM stockist from Monday and a full list of liveries and running numbers /product codes are available via the DJModels web site, RMweb and the modelling press.

 

G

[Ravenser]

13 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

Apparently it was 5 N gauge wagons he announced in 2015 (not 4 as I mentioned). Here is Dave's announcement list including mentioning they have all been CAD/CAM designed and their tooling stage:

 

BIG NEWS!
Despite my saying for a few years now that I would not touch rolling stock due to it’s smaller return for quite a large outlay. However, I have done a deal with a new (for me) and respected factory, that currently makes for 3 very well known model railway companies (2 in mainland Europe) to produce 5 N gauge wagons at what I consider to be a very reasonable price.
It’s worth noting that all 5 have been cad/cam designed and 1 is, as I write, in the tool room with a release date for March 2016*.
These are noted on attached pages to this release, but I will list them here…………..
Shark 20t Plough van (Awaiting Tooling)
Mermaid Ballast wagon  (*in Tooling)
Turbot Bogie ballast wagon (final cad/cam design)
Bogie Boster E (final cad/cam design)
LSWR Road Van (Awaiting tooling)
 
Orders for these wagons can be taken by your DJM stockist from Monday and a full list of liveries and running numbers /product codes are available via the DJModels web site, RMweb and the modelling press.

 

G

 

The Mermaid made it , the Shark was apparently recently quoted as Nov 2019

 

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, Covkid said:

 

As a matter of interest,  was Hugh Flynn''s FTG models SPA wagon produced as a contract by Dave ? Just wondering. 

 

Pretty certain that you are right.

 

Edit:

Dave was brought in to expedite production in China.

There are numerous postings by Dave on the relevant thread - here's one of them.

Cheers,

Mick

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by newbryford

[Ravenser]

1 minute ago, newbryford said:

 

Pretty certain that you are right.

 

 

 

I think Hugh handed it over to DJM after the first production run. Hugh designed it, generated it, went to the factory and handled the first run. Omitted from both DJM lists as :

 

- FTG did not commission DJM , but did it themselves

- It has actually appeared

 

For whatever reason DJM do not seem to have done another run since acquiring the rights from Hugh

[PMP]

The HUO had an N Gauge 3D print and CADs shown for the N model. The OO version must have had CADs too as DJ stated he was holding them back/making changes to them in the HUO thread.

 

Edit: reload pic

Edited May 8, 2019 by PMP

[Taz]

11 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

.....

 

For whatever reason DJM do not seem to have done another run since acquiring the rights from Hugh

 

I believe it is Kernow that have the rights for the SPA and they have done another run.

[KDG]

12 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

I think Hugh handed it over to DJM after the first production run. Hugh designed it, generated it, went to the factory and handled the first run. Omitted from both DJM lists as :

 

- FTG did not commission DJM , but did it themselves

- It has actually appeared

 

For whatever reason DJM do not seem to have done another run since acquiring the rights from Hugh

Kernow Models released a batch of SPA wagons in various liveries, which were the FTG design with a couplng modifation.

 

Was DJM involved in that too?

[KDG]

Sorry cross posted with Taz

[BR Blue]

DJM was not involved in the SPA that Kernow took over as far as I know. The fact, as mentioned above, that they actually made it to market would seem to confirm this.

[D9020 Nimbus]

There's 41 pages to this thread now and the arguments are just going round and round. Isn't it time it was locked—at least until there is new information?

Edited May 8, 2019 by D9020 Nimbus
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