All-new Heljan 47 in 00 gauge

[IRC]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

 

Is there enough side to side bowing going on across the front (a recurring Heljan issue) - all looks a little bit too one dimensional and from any sort of angle that shows up on 47s. Look at the handrail in the photo of the loco on rollers above compared to how this wraps round the curving front. Highlighting the handrail to illustrate the point but its the flattish plane of the cab windows that impacts the appearance (is the same issue on the 2nd attempt 7mm version). There is curve in the model but im suggesting not enough.

 

 

Looks ok to me. I think Nick’s first, side on photo shows the curvature of the handrail well.

 

 

 

 

 

[IRC]

11 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

The front footsteps are not spaced far enough apart for most 47s, giving a pinched look.
 

Most obvious in @adb968008’s photo of 47596 where they should be above the ETS sockets and near the lamp brackets:

 

 

They are closer together on some 47s, but I would argue not many. 
 

Jury still out for me. 
 

Roy

I see what you mean and 596 does seem to be like that, but Hal Nail’s post shows them closer together.

For me, I wasn’t going to buy them straight away anyway. I’m expecting them to be discounted over time and would probably be happy to get some at the £150 mark in six months or so, as the concerns so far aren’t enough to stop me. But that’s just me…

[SouthernBlue80s]

The Heljan model is looking good to my eyes. But I am no expert on the detail differences.

So the Jury is out for me too.

Now edging towards Heljan, as I want two rail blue plated headcode versions to start with and they are releasing a 47/3 in that guise.

 

Not for me , but it is nice to see people now have a 48 they can purchase as well.

 

Roll on January :)

 

 

[GD]

Head on image from the Gaugemaster website.

[Halvarras]

5 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

 

Is there enough side to side bowing going on across the front (a recurring Heljan issue) - all looks a little bit too one dimensional and from any sort of angle that shows up on 47s. Look at the handrail in the photo of the loco on rollers above compared to how this wraps round the curving front. Highlighting the handrail to illustrate the point but its the flattish plane of the cab windows that impacts the appearance (is the same issue on the 2nd attempt 7mm version). There is curve in the model but im suggesting not enough.

 

 

 

Looking closely at two-tone green D1969 in the first of @adb968008's display case photos above appears to confirm your observation........

[adb968008]

heres a comparison head on…

 

top to bottom..

 

47628 (Old Bachmann tooling)/ left

47712 (New Bachmann tooling) / right

47452 New Heljan tooling EP (2022 Warley)

47635 Doncaster works, 2003
 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by adb968008

[GD]

[Mophead45143]

4 hours ago, GD said:

 

I think that sums it up pretty well.... oh dear!!!

 

[Peanut89]

3 hours ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

I think that sums it up pretty well.... oh dear!!!

 

I think the angle doesn't necessarily help that view IMO

 

My best attempt haha.

 

Must admit, had a long time talking to Ben at Heljan ar Warley. Had a good look at it. Sound file is Bif so is excellent as you'd expect. IPhone style speakers according to Ben. It might not be "perfect" but 10 years ago we'd of killed for this and as others have said Heljan will produce the liveries that Bachmann won't (coincidently when I pushed the Bachmann reps, they said more would come but suggested 2/3 years between batches)

 

[PM47079]

I think they will sell well on the basis of the fact that they are producing liveries that will sell well. 

[dj_crisp]

This model is definitely one I want to see in person as some of the photos taken seem a little distorted.

 

I've always felt the 47 is one of the more deceptive shapes in that it looks simple but probably isn't. I imagine it's camera angles. To me it looks like it's on stilts, can look a little fat in the face with a fairly short body (as those bogies are quite large). Most models to date haven't completely captured this right imo. I think this one may fall into the same category as the body looks to sit too low Vs the bogies, and the arc of the roof could be off too... but will reserve judgement till when I see it in person. 

[jjb1970]

I use an analogy with food, the simplest dishes are often the most difficult to prepare and cook well as there's nowhere to hide. The 47 is a clean and simple design (which is a big part of why it aged so well) which means the eye doesn't get distracted by lots of details. If the basic shape isn't right a model can't try and hide with lots of lovely details. That said, although I haven't seen it in person I think this does capture the look of the 47. As someone above pointed out, not that long ago we dreamt of models like this.

[97406]

6 hours ago, Peanut89 said:

I think the angle doesn't necessarily help that view IMO

 

My best attempt haha.

 

Must admit, had a long time talking to Ben at Heljan ar Warley. Had a good look at it. Sound file is Bif so is excellent as you'd expect. IPhone style speakers according to Ben. It might not be "perfect" but 10 years ago we'd of killed for this and as others have said Heljan will produce the liveries that Bachmann won't (coincidently when I pushed the Bachmann reps, they said more would come but suggested 2/3 years between batches)

 

 

I found the livery affected how good the Heljan 47s looked. The Red Stripe and the NSE looked good but the FYE versions looked a little more off in comparison. The NSE version had its livery applied beautifully, but with 6 47s already in my fleet I’m not that up for buying any more at the moment.

 

I view them as somewhat of a design classic, but there were often groans in the 80s when one turned up instead of a 40, 45, 50, 25, 31 or 37 due to the sheer number of them.

[Mophead45143]

1 hour ago, 97406 said:

 

I found the livery affected how good the Heljan 47s looked. The Red Stripe and the NSE looked good but the FYE versions looked a little more off in comparison. The NSE version had its livery applied beautifully, but with 6 47s already in my fleet I’m not that up for buying any more at the moment.

 

I view them as somewhat of a design classic, but there were often groans in the 80s when one turned up instead of a 40, 45, 50, 25, 31 or 37 due to the sheer number of them.

 

I would echo the thoughts on the full yellow ends exacerbating (or highlighting) the issue, the blue and green FYE models in the cabinet do look a bit odd.

[PMP]

12 hours ago, Mophead45143 said:

 

I think that sums it up pretty well.... oh dear!!!

 

All that image sums up is that the camera angle isn’t the same, so the various curves aren’t replicated via the camera lens. We’ve been here before with these ‘comparisons’ many years back with electric nose.
The easy way to see this is looking at those two images. The model the sides perspective are going upwards along the length of the model, the prototype the sides are going downward, and you can see more of the left hand side. Therefore the central point of the lens isn’t at an identical location, and that’s without ensuring the focal length of the lens is the same to exclude any lens distortion. 

The buffers aren’t even level between the images and the right hand side you can see the angle of the body reflected by the left hand buffer being lower against the horizontal.

No dog in this fight, just highlighting false flags.

To me the models face does successfully capture the 47. I’ve been going through Newark recently and there’s a pair there, and looking at them, nothing stands out as ‘wrong’ for me.

Edited November 27, 2023 by PMP
Addition

[GD]

19 minutes ago, PMP said:

All that image sums up is that the camera angle isn’t the same, so the various curves aren’t replicated via the camera lens. We’ve been here before with these ‘comparisons’ many years back with electric nose.
The easy way to see this is looking at those two images. The model the sides perspective are going upwards along the length of the model, the prototype the sides are going downward, and you can see more of the left hand side. Therefore the central point of the lens isn’t at an identical location, and that’s without ensuring the focal length of the lens is the same to exclude any lens distortion. 

The buffers aren’t even level between the images and the right hand side you can see the angle of the body reflected by the left hand buffer being lower against the horizontal.

No dog in this fight, just highlighting false flags.

To me the models face does successfully capture the 47. I’ve been going through Newark recently and there’s a pair there, and looking at them, nothing stands out as ‘wrong’ for me.

I disagree, the face doesn't look right to my eyes, I think the handrails, headcode panel and taillights are too low

[brushman47544]

On 25/11/2023 at 14:44, adb968008 said:

 

On 26/11/2023 at 00:46, NickL2008 said:

 

 

Interesting. Are we seeing two models at different stages of development, with 47596's being a newer version of the roof tooling? The lower curve on the roof grills looks well off (too flat then too sharp a curve) on the green version, whereas on 47596 they appear to be a distinct improvement.

 

Also, has there been any information or a model of an ETH 47 with the box in the original position above the  buffer beam? I will be interested to see how Heljan tackles that compared to Bachmann. 

[Hal Nail]

I went to school with twins. I found it quite easy to tell them apart (and from various angles, even without a superimposed ruler). Others obviously couldn't.

 

The bit I never really understood was those that couldn't see the difference, generally tried to claim those of us who could were somehow tricking them rather than just looking and seeing the difference.

 

Reminds me of this really.

 

 

[adb968008]

 

17 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

I went to school with twins. I found it quite easy to tell them apart (and from various angles, even without a superimposed ruler). Others obviously couldn't.

 

The bit I never really understood was those that couldn't see the difference, generally tried to claim those of us who could were somehow tricking them rather than just looking and seeing the difference.

 

Reminds me of this really.

 

 

I know exactly what you mean.

 

I went to uni with a pair, people asked me how I could tell.. I replied one had a lower last three digits on his mobile and that also matched the one with the lower IQ and his lower drinking ability.

 

😃

 

we also had a female friend, when asking her, she had a slightly more intimate answer for each.

😁

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by adb968008

[adb968008]

I’m going to give one ago and compare. Ive seen enough and convinced this is one of Heljans better (if not best diesels), its certainly heading in the direction of industry trend.

 

I also think the detail is there, possibly more so under the frame than Bachmanns, and more metal handrails/grabs etc… the piping through the engine room windows looked a bit more substantial too.

 

However other areas Bachmann may have it, one is the eth and footstep, I want to also see how the tapering angle of the cab compares, both side on and from above… I’d no idea how far out the old Bachmann one was, until I saw the new one and compared to pictures.

 

For certain though this new one will sit nicely and play alongside, better than the old one.

 

But if its got the beans inside, and enough positives, then it will come down to the liveries, and who brings them first, i’m not partisan in that way.

[Hal Nail]

Just now, adb968008 said:

I’m going to give one ago and compare.

 

What, the twins?

[dj_crisp]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I’m going to give one ago and compare. Ive seen enough and convinced this is one of Heljans better (if not best diesels), its certainly heading in the direction of industry trend.

 

I also think the detail is there, possibly more so under the frame than Bachmanns, and more metal handrails/grabs etc… the piping through the engine room windows looked a bit more substantial too.

 

However other areas Bachmann may have it, one is the eth and footstep, I want to also see how the tapering angle of the cab compares, both side on and from above… I’d no idea how far out the old Bachmann one was, until I saw the new one and compared to pictures.

 

For certain though this new one will sit nicely and play alongside, better than the old one.

 

But if its got the beans inside, and enough positives, then it will come down to the liveries, and who brings them first, i’m not partisan in that way.

 

I look forward to seeing some photos! But especially lined up with a coach ;)

 

I never understood with why my Vitrains 47 looked off until I got a new Bach 47.... then I realised that while there is a smidge of a difference body height wise the bogies of the Vi's aren't big enough. So lowering Vi's helped make it look better on its own it doesn't look as good with a coach. All sort of makes sense to me now. 

 

So I suspect something is going on with Heljans as the photos seen so far don't look right... but that could easily be the camera tricking me.

[MikeParkin65]

1 minute ago, dj_crisp said:

 

I look forward to seeing some photos! But especially lined up with a coach ;)

 

I never understood with why my Vitrains 47 looked off until I got a new Bach 47.... then I realised that while there is a smidge of a difference body height wise the bogies of the Vi's aren't big enough. So lowering Vi's helped make it look better on its own it doesn't look as good with a coach. All sort of makes sense to me now. 

 

So I suspect something is going on with Heljans as the photos seen so far don't look right... but that could easily be the camera tricking me.

Its not the camera unfortunately  - in the flesh there is something wrong about the relationship between the body and the bogies. I'm not sure whether its the ride height or maybe the width of the bogies but it makes the bodyside  look either too deep or too low.  

[charliepetty]

On 26/11/2023 at 11:44, jjb1970 said:

Overall, it looks excellent to me, many more positives than negatives and it catches the 47 very well to my eyes. The latest Bachmann still looks better IMO but that's an outstanding model and the Heljan model looks very good. I still think whether or not I buy will largely be determined by price relative to  Bachmann and if they offer options not done by Bachmann. The 48 is a must have for me.

Alol the Heljan models come with Legomanbiffo Sound files as standard, so thje sound file & quality should be superior to the Bachmann offering.  Look forward to these models.

 

Charlie

[MikeParkin65]

15 hours ago, charliepetty said:

Alol the Heljan models come with Legomanbiffo Sound files as standard, so thje sound file & quality should be superior to the Bachmann offering.  Look forward to these models.

 

Charlie

Will Biffo have anything for the Class 48 @charliepetty?