thunderer08 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If you look at the model in the flesh, the holes are no way as obvious as they are in photographs. If you don't like them then they are quickly and easily filled in and covered with a spot of paint. They aren't a reason not to buy the loco as this really is basic modelling. There's a lot of unhelpful hysteria about this model. The major issues boil down to the flattish cab roof, the low cab windows and gap between the bogies. In the flesh all bar the bogie gap aren't obvious and I like to think I've spent enough time scratch building these locos to be pretty familiar with them. The rear of the bogie is a separate moulding which can be moved back. All you're left with then, is a need to replace the pantographs which are truly awful. At £165 I shouldn't need to do any modelling, basic or not, to stop it lookin ridiculous! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderer08 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I think you'll find the only thing that's ridiculous is your perspective on a minor blemish that's easily solved. Maybe that's why no-one replied to your earlier post? If you keep your eyes on the link to improving the model, I'll get around to sorting a blue one once I've finished the black one to show you just how easy it is. What i find ridiculous is you deciding what is deemed a worthy "fault"! Just because you find it acceptable does not mean you can belittle others opinions! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I dont know anyone who has not brought one for the holes in the front. Most people i know that would have brought one havent done so because of it being so hopelessly wrong everywhere else. So in that respect i kinda agree with Alistair. The holes in the front are a bit like sticking a plaster on a cut on someones finger when they are already dead. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I always thought a Woodhead electric was going to be a hard sell. I think Olivias would have made a shedload of cash to date had they done what Realtime have done/are doing with Heljans Class 33 and commissioned their own ulitmate revised Class 86 (the chassis was done and ready to go as its generally a good rendition) to correct all the errors and replace the awful pantograph, early cab fronts, pre-flexicoil bogie side frames etc. They would had the market to themselves and if it was a bang on model then they could of sold them at £165 all day long. I dont see the Class 76 or even the EM2 scoring big numbers. I bet OTs wish theyd never even heard of the Class 76 now.......I know of nobody that has purchased one let alone the usual pair these locos swanned around as when double heading MGRs. As far as layout operational flexibility goes too I only really see these as hauling MGRs (I know they hauled some passengers) - they werent really a mixed traffic loco were they and that limits the appeal even further. Using the 86 example we all know the variety of rolling stock that could be found hanging off the back and that just broadens its appeal before one adds the geographic spread they reached and the class of other locos/stock that could be found alongside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2012 I think that to 'a certain generation' the EM1 and EM2 can be quite iconic as Britain's only truly mainline overhead electric locos. Thus to many of us for that reason and that reason alone there should have been a market for the class. I don't know how big that market would have been, especially with so many other locos crowding in to draw on tightening personal budgets but undoubtedly a market. However there have been more than enough things, starting with cash deposits upfront for a loco as yet unseen, to silly errors and shortcomings in the finished model which are in themselves more than enough to deter the casual or nostalgic purchaser. The price, or more correctly its 'value for money' must also come into any purchaser's equation as well and it is obviously some way above the current market norm and that is also a dissuader for many I'm sure. For the dedicated modeller of the Woodhead route they do, I suppose, provide a basis to work on as has been demonstrated in the detailing thread but that is not something which would - I suspect - appeal to all, particularly to those purchasing on a casual nostalgic basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 ..I know of nobody that has purchased one let alone the usual pair these locos swanned around as when double heading MGRs. As far as layout operational flexibility goes too I only really see these as hauling MGRs (I know they hauled some passengers) - they werent really a mixed traffic loco were they and that limits the appeal even further. Using the 86 example we all know the variety of rolling stock that could be found hanging off the back and that just broadens its appeal before one adds the geographic spread they reached and the class of other locos/stock that could be found alongside. Not sure what others' definition of mixed traffic is, but this lot aren't swanning around on MGRs, nor are they all in pairs, by any means. http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidhayes/5416804856/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidhayes/5400690515/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidhayes/5391645184/in/set-72157629976005223 http://www.derbysulzers.com/76001.jpg http://www.flickr.com/photos/86020500@N06/7928793466/ http://www.phantasrail.co.uk/RG/Phantasrail%20RG4015u.jpg http://www.davidheyscollection.com/USERIMAGES/dh-woodhead-route.jpg http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5537927833/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/55727763@N02/7091352211/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/cookephotography/2375146624/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/cookephotography/2375146632/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/7128824067/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/6982739922/in/photostream/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I always thought a Woodhead electric was going to be a hard sell. I think Olivias would have made a shedload of cash to date had they done what Realtime have done/are doing with Heljans Class 33 and commissioned their own ulitmate revised Class 86 (the chassis was done and ready to go as its generally a good rendition) to correct all the errors and replace the awful pantograph, early cab fronts, pre-flexicoil bogie side frames etc. They would had the market to themselves and if it was a bang on model then they could of sold them at £165 all day long. I dont see the Class 76 or even the EM2 scoring big numbers. I bet OTs wish theyd never even heard of the Class 76 now.......I know of nobody that has purchased one let alone the usual pair these locos swanned around as when double heading MGRs. As far as layout operational flexibility goes too I only really see these as hauling MGRs (I know they hauled some passengers) - they werent really a mixed traffic loco were they and that limits the appeal even further. Using the 86 example we all know the variety of rolling stock that could be found hanging off the back and that just broadens its appeal before one adds the geographic spread they reached and the class of other locos/stock that could be found alongside. There's some very sweeping generalisations in this, I'm sure they're just your opinion but one that does spring to mind is 'I bet OT wish they'd never heard...' I've no more idea on this than anyone else, but one thing that does spring to mind is, if you're not selling something , you cut it's price, as is frequently seen by the prices at the usual boxshifters, I don't think it's done as an altruistic gesture, as yet I've not seen any price cutting on the EM1s and the EM2 is going ahead. I don't think you can really compare an EM1 with an 86, if you want to model the MSW you need EM1s simple as that, geographic spread and stock hauled doesn't really come into it. As to stock seen alongside them, well I think that possibly the EM1 might even win that argument with the sheer numbers of ex GC/LNER stock that was around 1952- 1960. I called into to have a look at the EM1s, ended up buying 4, they really fit in well with my current modelling, Leeds trams! The simple facts are this, there are those that like them, and those that decry them, but if you currently want an EM1, where else do you start? I really don't see much point in the continued debate of 'they're too expensive',' they should have done this'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I don't think you can really compare an EM1 with an 86, if you want to model the MSW you need EM1s simple as that, geographic spread and stock hauled doesn't really come into it. As to stock seen alongside them, well I think that possibly the EM1 might even win that argument with the sheer numbers of ex GC/LNER stock that was around 1952- 1960. I suggest that the Class 76 holds its own in 1973-1980 as well, without labouring the analysis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Not sure what others' definition of mixed traffic is, but this lot aren't swanning around on MGRs, nor are they all in pairs, by any means. http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream http://www.flickr.co...157629976005223 http://www.derbysulzers.com/76001.jpg http://www.flickr.co...N06/7928793466/ http://www.phantasra...ail RG4015u.jpg http://www.davidheys...dhead-route.jpg http://www.flickr.co...009/5537927833/ http://www.flickr.co...N02/7091352211/ http://www.flickr.co...phy/2375146624/ http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.co...N03/7128824067/ http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ I hadnt a clue they worked such a variety of traffic and youve answered your own question into the bargain there about the definition of a mixed traffic loco as far as these go. Nice work - enough even to set up a whole new gallery when a couple of photos would have frankly been enough for anybody to get the point but I wouldnt want you to be accused of a little overkill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hi Jim You've been quite prolific in damning the Heljan offering on both this and other forums but can't say what you believe to be wrong with it - (I did ask you a while back!). Alastair Sorry Alistair. I must have missed you asking. Its dead simple, I am not fussed about detail, i am happy to add that myself but i do object to manufacturers getting the fundamental shape of something wrong. You might see me hacking about old class 25 models to get something looking like a class 25 despite the much newer Bachmann effort. Or doing the same with Hornby 86, again despite the newer Heljan model, likewise adapting lima class 31s as the Hornby one isnt right. Of the modern models, the 31 is a subtle kind of wrong, the 25 is a definately not right while the 86 is in its own league of "what the hell is that?". Looking at pics of the class 76 model and prototype its somewhere arround the level of the 25, clearly not the same as the real thing, however at 4 times the price. Following are the things that jarr to me Cab fronts - they look too tall. Cab windows dont look wide enough and light detaols look far too big. Cab roof looks too flat. Sides - cabside windows, bodyside windows and grills are too far from the roof line. The center section of the roof looks too flat. Bottom of the bodyshape looks wrong. I wonder if the cantrail needs to be moved down? Bogies - far too 2d. The springs and sandboxes on these locos are really deep. Heljan have them really flat. Relationship between the bogies and bodies looks to gappy, but thats not all that unusual for rtr stuff. The bogie sideframes seem far too far apart. On the real locos its quite a characteristic that the bogies look kind of tucked under, Heljan havent got this at all. If i were modelling the woodhead i think i would feel as dissapointed with it as i do with the 86. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Hi alistair You seem to have picked up on some of the minor points but ignored the major one, ei the cab looks far too tall. To me the face of the model looks more out than the Bachmann 25. Just not like a class 76 at all. Theres loads of other problems people who know the class tell me about but these are just the glaring* errors i picked up. *glaring = obvious to someone who doesnt know the class at all. ie - me! Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 If you think it ok then thats all that really matters. I think it wrong enough that i wouldnt buy one even if i needed one. Im not gonna change your mind (nor do i want to) and you wont change mine but thats ok, Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Back to the BP for a moment: the Hattons/ Bachmann launch event on Friday has been mail-shotted to subscribers. I really wish someone had proof read it though. Call me a nit-picker but is the Blue Pullman really a historic locomotive, loco or engine? Pedant mode [off] Edit: EXCERPT: This fondly remembered loco was extremely popular when it ran from Manchester to London, however a little known fact about the engine is that in 1964 and 1965 it also ran services to the Grand National here in Liverpool. Its short life span, its speed, its vibrant colour, and its replacement due to the electrification of the West Coast Main Line, all offer explanations to why this historic loco is the personification of the Swinging Sixties. Delivery of the loco is expected on the week beginning 5th November... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2012 Back to the BP for a moment: the Hattons/ Bachmann launch event on Friday has been mail-shotted to subscribers. I really wish someone had proof read it though. Call me a nit-picker but is the Blue Pullman really a historic locomotive, loco or engine? Pedant mode [off] Edit: EXCERPT: This fondly remembered loco was extremely popular when it ran from Manchester to London, however a little known fact about the engine is that in 1964 and 1965 it also ran services to the Grand National here in Liverpool. Its short life span, its speed, its vibrant colour, and its replacement due to the electrification of the West Coast Main Line, all offer explanations to why this historic loco is the personification of the Swinging Sixties. Delivery of the loco is expected on the week beginning 5th November... This is, of curse, one of those exceptional occasions when they could truly call something 'a train' - and they didn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43009 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 When will the Blue Pullman be coming out and how much will it cost? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted November 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2012 When will the Blue Pullman be coming out and how much will it cost? Never. It was dropped when Bachmann announced their model (which is out now). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffi_C Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 The Tommy releases have been showing as "sold out" on the OT site for a while now, so looks like they're not going to happen. A shame, despite its faults I like their EM1 and had planned to order a couple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 some newly uploaded flickr shots of class 76 and 77s in here. http://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/sets/72157633470857013/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Lovely picture of 76014 and 76015 on 16T mineral wagons, for the scenery as much as the train: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tunnel_one/8646472894/in/photostream/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffi_C Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 No listing at all now for Tommy on Olivia's revamped site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 No listing at all now for Tommy on Olivia's revamped site. That is because it has been cancelled. I believe that Olivia's have contacted everyone who placed an advance order and paid a deposit for "Tommy" to offer them a full refund or the option of putting their deposit towards the cost of an EM1 or EM2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Francis deWeck Posted June 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 7, 2013 That is because it has been cancelled. I believe that Olivia's have contacted everyone who placed an advance order and paid a deposit for "Tommy" to offer them a full refund or the option of putting their deposit towards the cost of an EM1 or EM2. Yep, it has been cancelled. I spoke to Neil Bishop on a visit to OT when, amongst other things, he informed me that Tommy was not being proceeded with. It is a shame, but that is the way of the world eh! I have an MSL Tommy in lined Apple green and running number 26000. Twin motored beast, still running in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I'm not sure what that says about the care being taken on these models if they have decided a respray of a production could be sold as a model of Tommy. Would Kernow turn out a standard class 47 resprayed as a FGW 57/6 with head codes and Serck shutters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Pedant mode - is it not time the 'Blue Pullman' reference was dropped from the title of this thread? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maxthemapman Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Looks like they've decided to do a repainted production machine instead. See - http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/model-trains/Heljan/Heljan-class-76-main-page/Heljan-lner-6701-tommy-prototype-class-76-in-lner-green-livery-respray/ I'm not sure LNER green works on the production machine! Presumably, any lining would have been chosen to match the shape of the vehicle. If the shape is different, then the lining should be different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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