RMweb Premium Francis deWeck Posted December 27, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 27, 2017 I've been pondering this since the model came out, reviews here and elsewhere have put me right off. To echo others, what a shame they didn't get it right first time. Heljan's HS4000 is superb, so we all know they're capable of doing a good job. When the Bachmann 37 first came out, the cantrail curve was all wrong and Bachmann rectified this, no doubt at considerable expense. Can we expect the same for the EM1 and EM2 from Heljan? Somehow I doubt it, given the niche market of MSW. So, what to do now? Well for me, as much as I resent paying £150 for something that is pretty substandard in many ways, I reckon I'll bite the bullet and try one or two. The pantographs have been debated at length, not much to add except that I may end up using Lima ones that were (wrongly) used on the 87. My only issue is that they don't raise far enough... But we will see. To me, the all-important feature on any locomotive is the 'face': get that wrong, and you have a big problem. The EM1 and EM2 fail in this respect, but they aren't beyond redemption. On both types, the windscreen frames are WAY too thin and no amount of superfluous, oversize rivets is gonna change that. What I propose to do is carefully remove the existing frames, and then make new ones. Brass etches would be good (anyone willing to make these?) but knowing me, I'll go down the usual E3109 route and attach new frames from 0.010" plasticard, fixed as solid plates then file out the apertures. This should go some way towards rectifying the screen/cabside discrepancy. Yeah I'd agree that on the EM1 at least, the cabside windows are too low but I reckon by fettling the screen frames, this can be disguised to a point where it isn't an issue. The EM2 has a MASSIVE issue with the quarterlights. They're way too wide, to the point of being vulgar. It was this issue alone which put me off buying one. 76s and EM2s are identical in this respect, so how on earth did they get that one wrong? The 76 cabside windows are about the right size (despite being too low) so why did they make such a pig's ear of the Co-Co? What I propose is to build up the inside of the EM2 quarterlights with plasticard and/or filler. Not sure yet, but I'm minded to lean towards building up the leading edges rather than the droplight pillar. Incidentally, I'd bet a month's salary that the windscreens on both types are identical in size. The EM2's seem wider because the cabs taper in, whereas there is little or no taper on an EM1. Thus the central pillar is narrower on an EM2, giving rise to an optical illusion when the two types are side by side. The bottom line is this: I utterly resent having to modify a ridiculously overpriced model. Don't even get me started on the buffer beam height on the 76.... Has anyone been able to correct this yet, without major surgery? But, bite the bullet I shall. "So, what to do now? Well for me, as much as I resent paying £150 for something that is pretty substandard in many ways, I reckon I'll bite the bullet and try one or two. The pantographs have been debated at length, not much to add except that I may end up using Lima ones that were (wrongly) used on the 87. My only issue is that they don't raise far enough... But we will see." May I suggest you look up Judith Edge Models as they do a good pantograph, and, if you require it will fit the units tailoring it to fit to the model. They did so for my squadron of EM1s and the EM2. The appearance is something of an improvement and they run well under Viessmann OHLE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted December 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2017 The Heljan 76/77 have been around for quite a while. We’ve just seen Hattons 14/28 re-released as as a general release. Also in 2017 we’ve seen Hattons start selling the 76/77 and this Christmas it was discounted (to the chosen ones) was this a 1st ? Maybe the stock is starting to be cleared, perhaps we might see a 76/77 released GA in 2018 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 If Heljan have the right to release the 76/77 as a general release, and Olivia's don't have the exclusive use of the moulds, don't expect the price to drop. We have had Chinese prices rise and the value of the pound drop since then. Plus the market for these locos is limited and most of it will have been satisfied by the Olivia's release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Is the market satisfied? Or are there others like me who would buy one, but not at the current prices? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Is the market satisfied? Or are there others like me who would buy one, but not at the current prices? What would you realistically pay? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 For the current model, around £110 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted December 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2017 For the current model, around £110£160 discounted by 25% your not far off.I’d imagine a GA release would be discounted on the shelves in this area. Got to admit i’d consider more at a lower price point, but with the 76’s some more numbers would be nice, i’m not so keen to renumber a £160 loco and watch it’s value go down in half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delticfan Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Just wait long enough and they will be reduced. Any business is usually forced to reduce their stock at some point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Just wait long enough and they will be reduced. Any business is usually forced to reduce their stock at some point. They are discounted occasionally......pre Christmas EM1s were available for £128.00 or you could have 2 EM2s and another EM1 or 2 for free bringing them down to £110 each. You have to be on their existing customers email list to get these offers, but it might be worth doing so if you want any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Philou here, Well, I bit the bullet and took up the 3 for 2 offer despite reading ALL the comments here saying the model was not good value for money regarding the roof profile, incorrect windows and flimsy pantographs and all the rest. They are not my region and I do not have any overhead (I do not have any track either), but rule 1 will apply when the layout is finally started this year. I have to say to my inexperienced (and aging eyes) they look the part, and at £110 a piece I am very pleased with the models. Why buy? Just ..... because. And also, to make up for the Trix version that I was unable to buy as a youngster. Having read all the comments, will I do any hacking? Change the pantographs? Just maybe if I set up a length of OLE (in both 25kvAC and 1.5kvDC plus third rail for all my other non-region models) - otherwise no. I like them as they are (yes I know - too easily pleased ) Toodle pip and a Happy New Year to you all. Philip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Philou here, Well, I bit the bullet and took up the 3 for 2 offer despite reading ALL the comments here saying the model was not good value for money regarding the roof profile, incorrect windows and flimsy pantographs and all the rest. They are not my region and I do not have any overhead (I do not have any track either), but rule 1 will apply when the layout is finally started this year. I have to say to my inexperienced (and aging eyes) they look the part, and at £110 a piece I am very pleased with the models. Why buy? Just ..... because. And also, to make up for the Trix version that I was unable to buy as a youngster. Having read all the comments, will I do any hacking? Change the pantographs? Just maybe if I set up a length of OLE (in both 25kvAC and 1.5kvDC plus third rail for all my other non-region models) - otherwise no. I like them as they are (yes I know - too easily pleased ) Toodle pip and a Happy New Year to you all. Philip What matters is that you’re happy. They do run well. Enjoy 2018! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Hi Philou here, @ No Decorum: I think that is it in a nutshell - 'What matters is if you're happy'. I think that some seek perfection where it simply is not possible given scale, technology available and to a certain degree cost. Perhaps too, I am not discerning enough in my choice of models - but there you go. I will say I DO take note of comments made, but just sometimes you take a punt and (touch wood) to date I have yet to be disappointed. Cheers, Philip PS: Added bonus, if as you say, they run well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Francis deWeck Posted January 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2018 What matters is that you’re happy. They do run well. Enjoy 2018! They do run well. Mine were unused, left in a siding for several months whilst other things were going on, and once started up ran like a dream. The Judith Edge pantographs still worked fine, dealing with the OH lines without a murmur (there are minor height variations due to board movement over time which affect the wires). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 For the current model, around £110 And funnily enough, some 76 and 77's cropped up on ebay being flogged off by Olivias. I was too slow to bag 76, but managed to get a blue 77 for £100. And i'm very pleased with it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47164 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 With the 76/77's that Hatton have, it makes me wonder who will win the battle of whits, how many years will hattons sit on them without reducing the prices v/s the modelling community getting fed up with waiting!. However do hattons appreciate what a very limited buying market there is for the loco's.?...or care !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 With the 76/77's that Hatton have, it makes me wonder who will win the battle of whits, how many years will hattons sit on them without reducing the prices v/s the modelling community getting fed up with waiting!. However do hattons appreciate what a very limited buying market there is for the loco's.?...or care !! Hattons either bought them off Olivia's or are selling them on behalf of Olivia's, if they know there will be no more then they know eventually they will be bought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2018 I am Wondering myself if the sudden incentive to move these is going to lead to a GA run by Heljan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 The EBay offers were returns not new stock, one might argue that the time it has taken to shift the stock would suggest to Heljan their money might be better spent in another class 86 attempt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I dunno who owns the tools for the em1/2. If it's olivas then that's probably that for another batch. If hattons are flogging them, they likely didn't sell quite as hoped I dunno who owns the tools for the em1/2. If it's olivas then that's probably that for another batch. If hattons are flogging them, they likely didn't sell quite as hoped Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2018 The EBay offers were returns not new stock, one might argue that the time it has taken to shift the stock would suggest to Heljan their money might be better spent in another class 86 attempt I dunno who owns the tools for the em1/2. If it's olivas then that's probably that for another batch. If hattons are flogging them, they likely didn't sell quite as hopedI dunno who owns the tools for the em1/2. If it's olivas then that's probably that for another batch. If hattons are flogging them, they likely didn't sell quite as hoped An Olivia's commission....a Sheffield retailer,as you would expect. Both electrics appear to have been hard to shift hence Hattons have taken some stock from Neil Bishop.Not Heljan's idea but his....so talk of another batch as far as they are concerned is irrelevant. Despite their much publicised flaws,they are likely to be the only Woodhead electrics we will ever get in 4mm form r-t-r..Speaking personally,they are not as bad as many believe.In fact quite a reasonable representation really and performance is good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Heljan performance is typically good (apart from those initial class 17s) I saw the DPS were also selling some EM1s at Model Rail at the weekend £165 and they are listed in their sales page too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Now being sold off at hattons. http://www.hattons.co.uk/82266/Heljan_7602_Class_76_EM1_Woodhead_electric_E26049_in_BR_blue_Limited_Edition_for_Olivias_Tr/StockDetail.aspx This follows on the back of Olivia's selling off the em2s on eBay. I wonder if something is going on or whether the retailers are making a cut and run Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Now being sold off at hattons. http://www.hattons.co.uk/82266/Heljan_7602_Class_76_EM1_Woodhead_electric_E26049_in_BR_blue_Limited_Edition_for_Olivias_Tr/StockDetail.aspx This follows on the back of Olivia's selling off the em2s on eBay. I wonder if something is going on or whether the retailers are making a cut and run They have been on Hattons website for at least a year already possibly longer and it would appear they have not sold too rapidly, a pity really, Living as a child a bike ride away from Reddish TMD and actually witnessing 26020 on the initial Manchester to Sheffield service, I have been tempted to buy a couple but never actually got around to it. Used to see the Midland Pullmans at Reddish as well, they were serviced there overnight I bought 2 of those, perhaps the preference was because of the OHL not being required! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 24, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2018 At the lower price they're well worth a punt. I thought that they were initially overpriced given they weren't the best OO models (a premium price is fine if it is for a premium product) but at the price they now go for I'd say go for it. Although not brilliant models I wouldn't call them bad models either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Succumbed! Faults and all, I really do like them. Typical Heljan runners - smooth as silk. LED lamps with a lovely yellow glow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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